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  #91  
Old 11-04-2009, 08:59 AM
Out of the Box Out of the Box is offline
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Default Re: The Top Mason.


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Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
which olichars are you talking about the venatian?
Predominantly Jewish banking and corporate dynasties like the Rothschild, the Rockefellers, the Warburgs, the Morgans, the Khuns, the Loebs, the Cohens, the Schiffs, the Oppenheimers or the Carnegies.

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  #92  
Old 11-04-2009, 09:08 AM
makaveli makaveli is offline
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Default Re: The Top Mason.

the article shows only the queen visiting the a rothshild I knew that already it doesn't reveal any further information about what kind of relationship they have. If I'm not mistaking one rothshild used to play polo with charles and they were nice friends + there is also the story of a rothshild being murdered

MOGUL DISTORTS ROTHSCHILD DEATH; POLICE SAY AMSCHEL WAS MURDERED

This shows if true that their either is great instabily in the rothshild family or that he was silenced by higher power. If you believe its not true and he indeed suiciced then there is nothing really wrong even billionaires can suicide. But if it true its either one of those two scenario's come to mind.

Beside is Mi6 loyal to the Rotscilds? I rather believe the monarchy. It's unlikely to suggest they are paid off as they aren't really that rich (directors as far as I know) and the royals also haves literly millions of dollars/pounds etc. Id doesn't matter how much billions you have or if you print money Mi6 is the most valueble asset as it can assasinate you and paper money can't. Like I said a rothschild assasinated who cares nobody as we have seen from the supposed suicided but if a royal dies... well look at Diana and the immense impact that had. This ALWAYS leaves them in a position of adventage. If if they had taken over the royals who easily got it back with their enourmous intelligence influence and status, prestige that would sire loyalty all over the place.

Besides if the Rotshilds run the game then why are they involved in organisations which are headed and controlled by the royals (pilgrim society, le cercle by brittish aristocracy, freemasonry). And besides this the marriage between jewish banking and european protestant royalty took place long before the rothshilds appeared on the scene when the venenation jewish mercintile moved their riches to amsterdam and eventually to london. Even elizabeth I (where intelilgence agencies started) first tried to get them to come to london but it failed. To imply that the rotshilds have taken over would mean that the powefull hesse, brunsick, hanoverian and orange dynasties simply stopped fighting for power. This is strange since in my opinion the entire protestant reformation was largly politcal to get away from the powers of the vatican and habsurg (Grand design, rosicrucian enlightment by francis yates) and now they simply surrender to (no disrespect) a couple of rich jewboys? Notice that before the arrival of the rothshilds the hessian family (which launched the rothshilds) went to great efforts to emancipate jews in masonic lodged with the Asiatic Brethern. The oranges (of hessian descend) gave jews a save haven in amsterdam and then moved them to London.

The entire centuary before the arrival of the rotshilds the royals have been working closely with jewish bankers, intermarrieing (most notably brittish aristocracy) and trying to intergrate them into the societies. Looking from this perspective the relationship between jewish bankers and the royal protestant families have always been good and almost never hostile since they helped each other out. So from this perspective and the overall trends it seems to me strange to suggest that the rotshilds dominate period over everyone. If one dominates, it has to be in a friendly and by everyone accepted way else there would be constantly internal fighting as we have seen in the middle ages.

Besides this I also put some questionmarks to the story that the rotshilds gained their riches by fraudulant markt speculation. As researcher and former Mi6 agent John Colemen claims the wealth of the rothhilds had nothing to do with their great financial instinct it was merely 'theft by conversion' meaning that the hessian prince gave them his money to avoid accusations of fraudulant behavior with his money. Simple as that. The other stories are merely specualation and are simply not proven, in my opionion to hide the fact that the rothsilds money is simply royal money. They just manage it and can enjoy some of it. If they fail to do their job right and become a treath to the entire system of intelocking royalty, secret societies and banking families and they are strangled in their bathroom and the world media is silence about it.
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  #93  
Old 11-04-2009, 09:34 AM
makaveli makaveli is offline
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Default Re: The Top Mason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Out of the Box View Post
Predominantly Jewish banking and corporate dynasties like the Rothschild, the Rockefellers, the Warburgs, the Morgans, the Khuns, the Loebs, the Cohens, the Schiffs, the Oppenheimers or the Carnegies.
as anthony sutton showed in his book about the skull and bones the rockerfellers where put their by the families of the skull & bones and not the other way around. The warburgs have worked together with morgan affiliated bussinues elements to finance hitler. Check out his boooks about Verenigte Stahlwerke, IG Farben and other cartels that where directly financed by wallstreet warburgs, rockerfellers etc. And Hitler himselve was trained in england as is sister in law (I believe) talks about in her diary (you can find a tread about this on this board). The books can be donwloaded freely from the internet.

The entire hitlertarion philosphy came from mystic sects which go beyond rotshilds in the pasts. The royals worked hard to put him there in combination witht he bankers this shows that they are on the same page first and second it shows and wanted to bring the philosphy out in the world. This philosphy came from royalty and it goes back to ancient mystery religions its even becoming mainstream information as you can find detailed scientific studies about it all over the internet how renaicaince, templaris, freemasonry etc take knowledge from egypt.

The Royals used to have the knowledge, secret societies to keep it alive and develop it and the riches.
The Royals now have the knowledge secret societies and the financial elements have been outsourced to the jewish banking dynasties. The reason for this is quite obvious: every royal family claimes descendecy from old testemant patriachs. So in a way the royals are the Jewish kings and the jews are the elite interbreeding knights who controll porn, movies, wealth etc all for the kings who are busy with more important issuese then money and all gentile people are the workers who are debtslaves to the chosen race of god.

Now I;m not saying that what I say is 100% truth but when you look it from a bigger perspective and line up all the information you see the combination of royals and jews is quite friendly and strong. If the rothshilds wanted they could have started a communist revolution in brittain and usher in the NWO right then and their but its not their call as it would remove the most important players: the royals.

Some people are saying follow the money. I say follow the knowledge. As the movie MATRIX RELOADED accuratly portrays: the knowledge is with the merovingians. They didn't call that character Amshel now did they?
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  #94  
Old 11-04-2009, 10:09 AM
Out of the Box Out of the Box is offline
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Default Re: The Top Mason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
MOGUL DISTORTS ROTHSCHILD DEATH; POLICE SAY AMSCHEL WAS MURDERED

This shows if true that their either is great instabily in the rothshild family or that he was silenced by higher power. If you believe its not true and he indeed suiciced then there is nothing really wrong even billionaires can suicide. But if it true its either one of those two scenario's come to mind.
It wouldn't be the first time in history that some powerful person had his brother, father or cousin murdered to gain more power by himself.

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Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
Beside is Mi6 loyal to the Rotscilds? I rather believe the monarchy.
There's no difference, since the monarchy is subservient to Rothschild interests. The real power of the queen of England is minimal.

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Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
Like I said a rothschild assasinated who cares nobody as we have seen from the supposed suicided but if a royal dies... well look at Diana and the immense impact that had.
The Rothschilds learnt from experience to stay out of the spotlights and their control of the mainstream media allows them to do.

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Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
Besides if the Rotshilds run the game then why are they involved in organisations which are headed and controlled by the royals (pilgrim society, le cercle by brittish aristocracy, freemasonry).
Because they are the ones telling the royals what to do and say. Officially they have an advisory role, much like David Axelrod (Obama's main puppet master)

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Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
And besides this the marriage between jewish banking and european protestant royalty took place long before the rothshilds appeared on the scene when the venenation jewish mercintile moved their riches to amsterdam and eventually to london.
Obviously, the Rothschilds weren't the first Jews who attempted to dominated gentile society according to Jewish prophecy. There're just more succesful than anyone else before them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
Even elizabeth I (where intelilgence agencies started) first tried to get them to come to london but it failed. To imply that the rotshilds have taken over would mean that the powefull hesse, brunsick, hanoverian and orange dynasties simply stopped fighting for power.
They have, haven't they? Are there still any European dynasties or governments at war with one another?!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
This is strange since in my opinion the entire protestant reformation was largly politcal to get away from the powers of the vatican and habsurg (Grand design, rosicrucian enlightment by francis yates) and now they simply surrender to (no disrespect) a couple of rich jewboys?
I guess the rich Jewboys were better tricksters or simply learnt from the mistakes made by the Knights Templar (who thought they were powerful enough to defy the king and clergy and were eradicated as a consequence)

Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
Notice that before the arrival of the rothshilds the hessian family (which launched the rothshilds) went to great efforts to emancipate jews in masonic lodged with the Asiatic Brethern. The oranges (of hessian descend) gave jews a save haven in amsterdam and then moved them to London.

[...]

So from this perspective and the overall trends it seems to me strange to suggest that the rotshilds dominate period over everyone.
There has been a powerful Jewish elite before the Rothschilds. The Rothschilds simply surpassed their predecessors and became the spearheads of what is now known as the "New World Order" or "Illuminati". While it is not impossible there's some secrete ancient Jewish cabal who elected the Rothschild family to spearhead this movement, I found no evidence whatsoever that the Rothschilds are not the very top of the pyramid.

Besides this I also put some questionmarks to the story that the rotshilds gained their riches by fraudulant markt speculation. As researcher and former Mi6 agent John Colemen claims the wealth of the rothhilds had nothing to do with their great financial instinct it was merely 'theft by conversion' meaning that the hessian prince gave them his money to avoid accusations of fraudulant behavior with his money. Simple as that. The other stories are merely specualation and are simply not proven, in my opionion to hide the fact that the rothsilds money is simply royal money.[/quote]

First, the Rothschilds were just bankers for royals and the Vatican. In time, they became their masters.

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Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
as anthony sutton showed in his book about the skull and bones the rockerfellers where put their by the families of the skull & bones and not the other way around.
That makes sense, considering the Rockefeller dynasty is one of the few dynasties with such an amount of power that is not Jewish.

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Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
The warburgs have worked together with morgan affiliated bussinues elements to finance hitler.
Just like the oligarchy would later finance Saddam Hussain. This doesn't make either of them a pawn of the oligarchy.

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Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
And Hitler himselve was trained in england as is sister in law (I believe) talks about in her diary (you can find a tread about this on this board).
The evidence for such a claim is pretty weak. Hitler did enter the NSDAP party as a spy for the German army (he mentions this in Mein Kampf), but the way Nazi literature exposed and fought the oligarchy afterwards it makes no sense to believe Hitler was a pawn of the oligarchy.

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Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
The entire hitlertarion philosphy came from mystic sects which go beyond rotshilds in the pasts.
Hitlerian philosophy was based on a Romanticist view on ancient Germanic culture (including Germanic paganism) and a strong desire to overthrow the capitalist oligarchy and replace it by a folkish nation. Unlike commonly claimed, there are no connections to the Thule Society or Freemasonry and such organisations were all banned in Hitler Germany.

Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
The royals worked hard to put him there in combination witht he bankers this shows that they are on the same page first and second it shows and wanted to bring the philosphy out in the world. This philosphy came from royalty and it goes back to ancient mystery religions its even becoming mainstream information as you can find detailed scientific studies about it all over the internet how renaicaince, templaris, freemasonry etc take knowledge from egypt.
Actually, Knights Templar, Rosicrucians and Freemasons oposed the arristocracy and clergy. It is only since the late 18th century that the ones you call "Illuminati" graduately gained control over Western society. The arristocracy and clergy represent the old order and the "Illuminati" replaced them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
If the rothshilds wanted they could have started a communist revolution in brittain and usher in the NWO right then and their but its not their call as it would remove the most important players: the royals.
There was no need for a communist revolution in Britain because the Rothschilds already dominated Britain before Marx was even born. Communism was just a tool to replace the arristocracy and clergy by "Illuminati" pawns where this hadn't succeeded before (eg. Tsarist Russia).
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  #95  
Old 11-04-2009, 02:20 PM
makaveli makaveli is offline
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Default Re: The Top Mason.

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Originally Posted by Out of the Box View Post
It wouldn't be the first time in history that some powerful person had his brother, father or cousin murdered to gain more power by himself.

Of course not but that would show instability within the family. If you murder your relative either everyone is on board or there is going to be tension when there is tension there is oppertunity for others to defeat you. Simply stating that the murder was done by a fellow rotshild doesn't make any sense as there is no evidence for that at all. There is no evidence that royals killed him either but that leaves the options open for speculation but you simply brush it of as a clasical family dispute. You can state that thats your opinion but unless you show some facts about the murdercase that seem to support it you can't really persuade anyone.


There's no difference, since the monarchy is subservient to Rothschild interests. The real power of the queen of England is minimal.

There is a huge difference. If they have a complete spionage system at their disposal they can easily take over everything the Rothshilds ever thouched. Its naive to say that a physicaly stronger person would take orders from another if that person has more goldpieces in his pocket. With his physical power he could take his gold and kill hem. Same goes for this situation. If the royal family has Mi6 at their disposal that its game over right there. All they have to do is lauch an spionage project against the rothshilds, figure out their strategies, locations of money supplies and intamiate family secrets and its checkmate. But somehow you find it easier to just completly ignore this and say that royals are stupid people who can't think straight and can't take over a rich banking family. I'm not neccecarily saying I know everything in full detail about Mi6 but enough to say that if their is any loyalty its towards the monarchy (in my opinion).


The Rothschilds learnt from experience to stay out of the spotlights and their control of the mainstream media allows them to do.

This doesn't make sense. When you are out of the spotlight you are assasinated and no one cares. I've mentioned this before. They can't kill a royal member that would draw to much attention as with diana. Royals are from this perspective ALWAYS in a position of adventage because they can't be blamed for anything and politicians and secret bankers can be blamed for everything and secret bankers can be killed if they draw to much attention.


Because they are the ones telling the royals what to do and say. Officially they have an advisory role, much like David Axelrod (Obama's main puppet master)

You can't prove this when it comes to the Pilgrim society and Freemasonry. Not being on the inside you can't tell and can only go by the official story unless there is indication to believe that that isn't true and I haven't found any evidence to suggest Rothshilds run freemasonry.

Obviously, the Rothschilds weren't the first Jews who attempted to dominated gentile society according to Jewish prophecy. There're just more succesful than anyone else before them.

The point of my post is taking out of context. What I was trying to say is there has been a marriage between jewish mercantiles of venice and royal nobility before the rothshilds. This only happened because the royals allowed jews to come to their places. Integration happened only because the royals heavily supported it with their secret societies.

They have, haven't they? Are there still any European dynasties or governments at war with one another?!?

I'm sorry to point it out to you but the Brusnwick/Hesse/Orange dynasty where almost always allies and pratically constantly interbreeding. What I was trying to say is that they are together in a coalition fighting for power not seperatly fighting eachother. You obviously didn't understand this cause you haven't had a clue about this now have you?! If you knew this very basic history you would know I meant this. lol
You reaction know probably will be that still other royal families aren't fighting today, but thats because they pratically all descend from these germanic families if you do some genealogical research you'll see this. Germanic families have taken over all trowns of europe.

I guess the rich Jewboys were better tricksters or simply learnt from the mistakes made by the Knights Templar (who thought they were powerful enough to defy the king and clergy and were eradicated as a consequence)

As you state yourselve this is just merely a guess not supported by any further information. I don't really understand also where you get your information regarding the knights templar. For your information many kings disagreed with the abolition of the templars including the kings own brother who took the trown after he died. Afterwards the order of Guarde de Ecosse was created consisting out of sons of templar families to protect the fresh kings. Sorry but what your saying isn't close to the information I have gathered on the templars.

There has been a powerful Jewish elite before the Rothschilds. The Rothschilds simply surpassed their predecessors and became the spearheads of what is now known as the "New World Order" or "Illuminati".
While it is not impossible there's some secrete ancient Jewish cabal who elected the Rothschild family to spearhead this movement, I found no evidence whatsoever that the Rothschilds are not the very top of the pyramid.

I have no insight in your research so I can't comment.

Besides this I also put some questionmarks to the story that the rotshilds gained their riches by fraudulant markt speculation. As researcher and former Mi6 agent John Colemen claims the wealth of the rothhilds had nothing to do with their great financial instinct it was merely 'theft by conversion' meaning that the hessian prince gave them his money to avoid accusations of fraudulant behavior with his money. Simple as that. The other stories are merely specualation and are simply not proven, in my opionion to hide the fact that the rothsilds money is simply royal money.
First, the Rothschilds were just bankers for royals and the Vatican. In time, they became their masters.

Lol thats quite a weak comment on my statement. I made the claim (wheter valid or not is irrelevant right now) that the rotshilds didn't had the supergreat financial skills and the origin of their money simply came from the hessian king who 'gave' it to them. This must draw atleast some suspucion to those investigating the rothschilds but you make know comment on this. I agree (with little evidence I might say) that the external elements have taken over the vatican but please provide some evidence that the royals have been taken over by the rotshilds cause you really haven't.

That makes sense, considering the Rockefeller dynasty is one of the few dynasties with such an amount of power that is not Jewish.

This doesn't make sense at all as the families I am refering to are not jewish. Its even known that morgan made antisemetic comments (perhaps as a disinformation propoganda who knows).

Just like the oligarchy would later finance Saddam Hussain. This doesn't make either of them a pawn of the oligarchy.

If they never had any chance of getting there in the first place and where completely financed isn't it reasonable to say that they where atleast meant as a pawn?????? You are not suggestiong they just hopeless investigate in everything that talks right.

The evidence for such a claim is pretty weak. Hitler did enter the NSDAP party as a spy for the German army (he mentions this in Mein Kampf), but the way Nazi literature exposed and fought the oligarchy afterwards it makes no sense to believe Hitler was a pawn of the oligarchy.

How exactly is this evidence weak? Here you cite hitlers propoganda book Mein Kampf but its apperantly not allright to make mention of hitlers pressense in england and involvement in the tavistock program (written by his sister in law) isn't allright. You have to explain why this is weak if you just say its weak how could I possibly accept such a statement? Show me why his sister was lying show me why research on this subject is disinformation and then I might be persuaded. Besides you suggest that hitler wasn't meant to be put up there as a pawn even though he was financed by warburgs, morgan and made peace with oppenheimers (giving them honary aryan status) and Henry Ford. Warburgs, morgans and oppenheimers are the once you cited as being the financial olicharcy that runs the game but you ignore these facts that hitler closely worked with them and give them special titles. Besides if you believe the financial olichargy runs everything what is your opinion on the Bank of International Settlements and Youngs and greecelyes (hitler financial man) involvement in it. Greecely (probably spelled wrong sorry) even gave young half of his ideas as writtin in his diaries.
Please show me some me the antiolicharcy propoganda hitler was spreading amongst his people if you can.

Hitlerian philosophy was based on a Romanticist view on ancient Germanic culture (including Germanic paganism) and a strong desire to overthrow the capitalist oligarchy and replace it by a folkish nation. Unlike commonly claimed, there are no connections to the Thule Society or Freemasonry and such organisations were all banned in Hitler Germany.

Huh? It's commonly claimed hitlers philosphy was based on ancient germanic culture. I've heard many contradictionary stories about masonry and nazism so I'm not going to mention it because of my lack of research. But if you are going to suggest hitler didn't draw his occult philosphy from mystic rites I straight laugh in your face. The swatstika, the expedition in tibet to find the origins of an aryan race, the believe that aryans came from atlantis, the search for the holy grail etc etc all vital elelments of his philosphy most of which can be found in the books of madam blavasky and her racial/spiritual profiling thoughts. Plus the hand sign of hitler was used in brittish circles (where he most likely go it from anyway).

Actually, Knights Templar, Rosicrucians and Freemasons oposed the arristocracy and clergy. It is only since the late 18th century that the ones you call "Illuminati" graduately gained control over Western society. The arristocracy and clergy represent the old order and the "Illuminati" replaced them.

Complety nonsense. John Dee, Maurice of Hesse, Tycho Brahe all patronised by royalty all involved in rosicrucinism (maurica himselve was royalty). Ramon Lull (medival cabbalist forerunner of rosicrucian cult) and Francesco Georgi where members of the Franciscian Order and there are many more examples. Try reading some books of Frances Yates. Freemasonry is full of aristocracy especcialy templar strict observance (which didn't start late ub the 18th centuary). I got the feeling that you honestly really have some bacis information gathered and you try to win an argument with this. Forgive me for 'reading' you but some of the things you just said are simply wrong. Again don't just make a statement please show examples etc so I can research your argumentation.

There was no need for a communist revolution in Britain because the Rothschilds already dominated Britain before Marx was even born. Communism was just a tool to replace the arristocracy and clergy by "Illuminati" pawns where this hadn't succeeded before (eg. Tsarist Russia).[/quote]

Just as there is no need to get rid of Brittains monarchy there is also no need of keeping a potentional enemy alive if you can destroy it. In their plan royalty is not going to have a place in the world right? How could it be when royalty claims they are devinely chosen and today are there merely for the sake of tradition they have some sort of a function in the NWO? So why don't get rid of them when you had the chance to do it smootly? Now its going to be a bloody mess with everybody focusing on it. If they financed not just a russion revolution but an world revolution they would be living the life of gods right now, but it didn't happen. The plan is bigger. The state of Irsrael had to be created for a certain purpose before the usering in the NWO. THe people had to be exposed to all sorts of philosophical gnostic elements before it could take place. Dynastic marriages had to be made and the technology wasn't there yet to make the big spectacle which they want.
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  #96  
Old 11-04-2009, 02:21 PM
makaveli makaveli is offline
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BTW within the quote I also make comments
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  #97  
Old 11-04-2009, 04:56 PM
Out of the Box Out of the Box is offline
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Default Re: The Top Mason.

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Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
Of course not but that would show instability within the family. If you murder your relative either everyone is on board or there is going to be tension when there is tension there is oppertunity for others to defeat you. Simply stating that the murder was done by a fellow rotshild doesn't make any sense as there is no evidence for that at all. There is no evidence that royals killed him either but that leaves the options open for speculation but you simply brush it of as a clasical family dispute. You can state that thats your opinion but unless you show some facts about the murdercase that seem to support it you can't really persuade anyone.
So basically, this was a pointless issue to begin with.

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Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
There is a huge difference. If they have a complete spionage system at their disposal they can easily take over everything the Rothshilds ever thouched.
The Rothschilds already had their own system of messengers and spies long before MI6 was founded. In fact, this is the very reason their 1815 scam actually worked.

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Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
This doesn't make sense. When you are out of the spotlight you are assasinated and no one cares.
That's precisely the point. When no one cares, they can do pretty much everything they want behind the scenes. When the whole world is watching you, that's quite a bit more difficult.

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You can't prove this when it comes to the Pilgrim society and Freemasonry.
Can you prove that the Rothschilds AREN'T in control of these particular organisations? I agree there may not be sufficient evidence for these particular organisations, but it's pretty obvious the run Western society as a whole.

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Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
What I was trying to say is there has been a marriage between jewish mercantiles of venice and royal nobility before the rothshilds. This only happened because the royals allowed jews to come to their places. Integration happened only because the royals heavily supported it with their secret societies.
Integration happened because powerful Jews wanted an arristocratic title and the arristocracy was in a desperate need for money. Jewish bankers could provide the money and the arristocracy could provide the title. This could happen only because the arristocracy had become decadent and didn't realise the Jewish bankers were stealing their power and fortune right from underneath them.

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Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
I'm sorry to point it out to you but the Brusnwick/Hesse/Orange dynasty where almost always allies and pratically constantly interbreeding. What I was trying to say is that they are together in a coalition fighting for power not seperatly fighting eachother.
I know. I just don't see where you're getting at.

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Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
You reaction know probably will be that still other royal families aren't fighting today, but thats because they pratically all descend from these germanic families if you do some genealogical research you'll see this. Germanic families have taken over all trowns of europe.
Some suggest the Brusnwick/Hesse/Orange dynasty is actually Jewish of origin, however I'm not sure about the evidence for that. Still, I don't see how that makes a difference since royals today have little power both legally and behind the scenes.

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Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
As you state yourselve this is just merely a guess not supported by any further information. I don't really understand also where you get your information regarding the knights templar. For your information many kings disagreed with the abolition of the templars including the kings own brother who took the trown after he died. Afterwards the order of Guarde de Ecosse was created consisting out of sons of templar families to protect the fresh kings. Sorry but what your saying isn't close to the information I have gathered on the templars.
The mainstream view is that Templars were eradicated because they had become too powerful and thereby were a threat to both the French king and the Vatican. According to masonic history, some of the remaining Knights Templar fled to Scotland and infiltrated in movements that would develop into Freemasonry. Freemasons have been behind for the French Revolution and the American Revolution which together lead to the collapse of monarchism as a political power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
As researcher and former Mi6 agent John Colemen claims the wealth of the rothhilds had nothing to do with their great financial instinct it was merely 'theft by conversion' meaning that the hessian prince gave them his money to avoid accusations of fraudulant behavior with his money. Simple as that.
Mayer Amschel Rothschild started the infamous dynasty by becoming the banker of Crown Prince Wilhelm of Hesse during the late 18th century, but it wasn't until the 1815 scam (that is definitely not a fabrication) that the British branch of the Rothschild gained the kind of power it has today.

First, the Rothschilds were just bankers for royals and the Vatican. In time, they became their masters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
I agree (with little evidence I might say) that the external elements have taken over the vatican but please provide some evidence that the royals have been taken over by the rotshilds cause you really haven't.
So what is the relationship between the Rothschild and the royals in your opinion and on what do you base this?

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Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
If they never had any chance of getting there in the first place and where completely financed isn't it reasonable to say that they where atleast meant as a pawn??????
???

Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
How exactly is this evidence weak? Here you cite hitlers propoganda book Mein Kampf but its apperantly not allright to make mention of hitlers pressense in england and involvement in the tavistock program (written by his sister in law) isn't allright.
Where's the evidence of Hitler's presence in England and his involvement in the Tavistock program? I've looked for it in the past but could never find any.

Also, why would Nazi authors make such an effort to expose the "Illuminati" and their agenda if they were really a part of it? Even Alex Jones doesn't go nearly as far as Nazi authors like Giselher Wirsing or Anton Zischka.

Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
Show me why his sister was lying show me why research on this subject is disinformation and then I might be persuaded.
As I said, I've looked for evidence in the past but could never find any. Feel free to provide me some sources I might have missed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
Besides you suggest that hitler wasn't meant to be put up there as a pawn even though he was financed by warburgs, morgan and made peace with oppenheimers (giving them honary aryan status) and Henry Ford.
Henry Ford was a supporter of Hitler who oposed the "Illuminati" just as much. Just because he happened to be rich, that doesn't make him part of the "Illuminati".

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Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
you ignore these facts that hitler closely worked with them and give them special titles.
He needed them for the time being, until he had the chance to do without them.

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Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
Besides if you believe the financial olichargy runs everything what is your opinion on the Bank of International Settlements and Youngs and greecelyes (hitler financial man) involvement in it. Greecely (probably spelled wrong sorry) even gave young half of his ideas as writtin in his diaries.
I'm not familiar with the Bank of International Settlements and Youngs and greecelyes (?). Source?

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Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
Please show me some me the antiolicharcy propoganda hitler was spreading amongst his people if you can.
My favorite Nazi authors on this topic are Giselher Wirsing and Anton Zischka. I own some of their publications, but I don't know if they were ever published in English.

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Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
Huh? It's commonly claimed hitlers philosphy was based on ancient germanic culture.
As I said, Hitlerian philosophy was based on a Romanticist view on ancient Germanic culture (including Germanic paganism).

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Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
But if you are going to suggest hitler didn't draw his occult philosphy from mystic rites I straight laugh in your face.
Himmler and his SS were quite a bit into Germanic occuly rituals, but Hitler was not interested in that sort of thing. In Mein Kampf, he supported the separation of state and church and showed no interest in the occult whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
The swatstika, the expedition in tibet to find the origins of an aryan race, the believe that aryans came from atlantis, the search for the holy grail etc etc
That was just the SS, most specificly the SS Ahnenerbe.

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Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
all vital elelments of his philosphy most of which can be found in the books of madam blavasky and her racial/spiritual profiling thoughts.
Blavatsky's views have little in common with Hitler's. Blavatsky did write on race but her views are very different from Hitler's.

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Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
Plus the hand sign of hitler was used in brittish circles (where he most likely go it from anyway).
The "Hitler greeting" arm sign was copied from Italian fascists who in turn copied it from the Romans.

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Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
Complety nonsense. John Dee, Maurice of Hesse, Tycho Brahe all patronised by royalty all involved in rosicrucinism (maurica himselve was royalty). Ramon Lull (medival cabbalist forerunner of rosicrucian cult) and Francesco Georgi where members of the Franciscian Order and there are many more examples. Try reading some books of Frances Yates. Freemasonry is full of aristocracy especcialy templar strict observance (which didn't start late ub the 18th centuary).
It is true that some Arristocrats joined their enemy to be able to keep or increase their status. This includes the British monarchy.

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Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
I got the feeling that you honestly really have some bacis information gathered and you try to win an argument with this. Forgive me for 'reading' you but some of the things you just said are simply wrong. Again don't just make a statement please show examples etc so I can research your argumentation.
I try to be as complete as possible, but I can't provide a source refence for every statement I make. That would be just too time-consuming.

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Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
Just as there is no need to get rid of Brittains monarchy there is also no need of keeping a potentional enemy alive if you can destroy it.
What potential enemy? Why would the British monarchy risk giving up everything they have in an attempt to overthrow a far more powerful adversary?

Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
How could it be when royalty claims they are devinely chosen and today are there merely for the sake of tradition they have some sort of a function in the NWO?
The removed the monarchy in some countries (like France or Germany) while they kept it in others. It really depends on the local culture and the obedience of these monarchs.

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Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
If they financed not just a russion revolution but an world revolution they would be living the life of gods right now, but it didn't happen.
They ARE living the life of gods.

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Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
The state of Irsrael had to be created for a certain purpose before the usering in the NWO. THe people had to be exposed to all sorts of philosophical gnostic elements before it could take place. Dynastic marriages had to be made and the technology wasn't there yet to make the big spectacle which they want.
???
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  #98  
Old 11-15-2009, 02:45 PM
makaveli makaveli is offline
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Default Re: The Top Mason.

So basically, this was a pointless issue to begin with.

I don't believe it is a pointless issue to begin with. It shows that A rothschild was killed. This means it has been done by a higher person, or a person longing for his power or etc and they succeeded. There is no evidence who that could be so then it could be anyone within illuminati related circles which includes vatican and royals. It is an indication that even rotschilds aren't untouchables perhaps.


The Rothschilds already had their own system of messengers and spies long before MI6 was founded. In fact, this is the very reason their 1815 scam actually worked.

Yes I know Mi6 came in 20th centurary but the brittish inteligence itselve predates rotshilds by a full centuary ( think even two). So did the jesuits. So if they detect a rising power on their radar either you take it out before it establishes itselve (machiaveli style) or you get in on your side. Since the Rotschilds where launched by the hessian prince who descends from brittish BTW, since a Rotschild member (forgot which one) was member of a lodge of the asiatic brethern (grandmaster was Karl Von Hesse) and his librarian (if I still remember correctly) stated that the Asiatic Brethern where a spin-off of the Bavarian Illuminati and since the Bavarian Illuminati could only succeed to key member of the Brunswick/Orange/Hesse line (philip egalité, Duke Ferdinand etc) and since the Illuminati made life miserable for the Brittish, Prussian biggest enemy FRANCE, I'd say they entire financial conpsiraracy was conceived by royalty and excecuted by orders, societies and jews. They where well within the royal circles from they first day, they thing I still like evidence of is them taking over the royals.

That's precisely the point. When no one cares, they can do pretty much everything they want behind the scenes. When the whole world is watching you, that's quite a bit more difficult.

No you don't understand or don't want to understand what I'm trying to say to you for a while know. First: if you are out the spotlight then indeed you can move more easy. You are absolutly right about that. But the royal family are rarely in the spotlights. Like a commenter on the brittish royalty said: "Be honest, no one really knows what goes on beyond the palace walls". They only show their faces once in a while. But if you are completly outside the spotlight you can be assasinated better. If a rothschild gets out of line they can check him with a bullet in the head no problem. On the other hand: if they need to check a royal how are they planning on just doing that? Treatning them? If one says no kill him? And if the rest says no kill them all? Star a revolution is the only option. And the only revolutions that have happened (with significance) are those that are outside the borders of Brunswick/Orange/Hesse terretorium. You see you can't just ignore that when a aspect of an interbreeding network of protestant royals launches a jewish family and that family supposedly takes over he most notably removes the enemy royals outside the network of interbreeding protestant royals.

Can you prove that the Rothschilds AREN'T in control of these particular organisations? I agree there may not be sufficient evidence for these particular organisations, but it's pretty obvious the run Western society as a whole.

I can't prove that not being one the inside. It's indeed obvious the Pilgrim Society, The 1001club, Le Cercle, Skull & Bones, Bilgerberg Group, Trilateral, CFR, Club of Rome etc etc are all machinations set up to run the world. While in most cases rotschilds are overwelmingly present, in some they appear to be irrelevant like SKull & Bones. I know of only one official freemason I guess probably some others but this organisation is firmly int he hands of the Brittish I believe. This is because of the changes Frederick the Great made to the structure of masonry. I believe it was an brittish ambassador in France wo wrote that Frederick had thereby acuired controll of all freemasonry in Europe. This is before the Rotschilds appeared ont he scene and I don't think this controll ever shifted outside the royal lines. So while there are definitly lots of elements out their that are linked to the Rotschilds, especcialy older elements of this conspiracy are prerotschild and the only think that still can connect them are the royals.

Integration happened because powerful Jews wanted an arristocratic title and the arristocracy was in a desperate need for money. Jewish bankers could provide the money and the arristocracy could provide the title. This could happen only because the arristocracy had become decadent and didn't realise the Jewish bankers were stealing their power and fortune right from underneath them.

I agree to a certain extent but I need further information on location and tiems an persons in reference.

I know. I just don't see where you're getting at.

Well I said it was strange to suggest that this bloodline stopped fighting for power. You said "well royals aren't fighting for power amongst each other for power now rite?" But this doesn't make sense since they all are part of the same family as the german Brunswick/hesse/orange lineage took over all of Europe praticicaly. The spannish king to the duke of luxembourg to the swedig royalty. All are comming fom the same german families.

Some suggest the Brusnwick/Hesse/Orange dynasty is actually Jewish of origin, however I'm not sure about the evidence for that. Still, I don't see how that makes a difference since royals today have little power both legally and behind the scenes.

You are never going to find evidence for that first there needs to be evidence that the biblical patriachs even excist how else can this be verified? How do they don't have any controll behind the scenes?

Pilgrim Society, The 1001club, Le Cercle, Skull & Bones, Bilgerberg Group, Trilateral, CFR, Club of Rome

Out of all these groups mentioned the royals are patrons or have founded the Pilgrim Society, 1001, Cercle (habsburg in this case) Bilderberg

The club of Rome is heavily connected with the Royal Institute for International Affairs who is also responsible for the infamous tavistock. Patroned by the Queen

This means that alteast they have the potentional of influencing pratically all of the Illuminati! How can you then say they have no power at all beyond the scene? On what is this statement base if I may ask because I don't understand it.


The mainstream view is that Templars were eradicated because they had become too powerful and thereby were a threat to both the French king and the Vatican. According to masonic history, some of the remaining Knights Templar fled to Scotland and infiltrated in movements that would develop into Freemasonry. Freemasons have been behind for the French Revolution and the American Revolution which together lead to the collapse of monarchism as a political power.

Oww I see now where you are getting it. Your argument is that freemasonry must be oppisite side because they casue revolutions against kings? Well I agree with the French Revolution. But the French king was not part of the 'network of interbeeding royals' that I am talking about. If anything he was their diehard enemy. The american revolution I unfortinaly can't talk about since I still need to do some research. I know already there have been great masonic influence but I need to research particarly if this was jacobite freemasonry, infiltrated etc. It's quite important and I don't know the fact so I'm not going to discuss but what do you have to say on the frensh templars protecting the frech king after their downfall. That shows atleast they still worked with royals. Plus the acknowledged heads according to Duke Brunswick where the Stuarts but they stopped caring appearently so Frederick II moved in.

Mayer Amschel Rothschild started the infamous dynasty by becoming the banker of Crown Prince Wilhelm of Hesse during the late 18th century, but it wasn't until the 1815 scam (that is definitely not a fabrication) that the British branch of the Rothschild gained the kind of power it has today.

I understand that thiswas definitly not a fabrication bu I'm saying all the earlier talk about him being such a genius stealing money this is just to discredit the rotschilds by anti-rotschild activists since I couldn't find evidence for that. So instead up untill then they where still under royal controll for sure. Plus I once read I think on wikipedia about accusation directed at on of the hanover kings that he knew of a crisis in the making forgot about it are your familiair with this?

First, the Rothschilds were just bankers for royals and the Vatican. In time, they became their masters.

Yeay this just isn't enough for me.

So what is the relationship between the Rothschild and the royals in your opinion and on what do you base this?

Well I personally would say that always the royals are on top, then the jewish backers/descendends of royals and nobility that are today jewish anyway. BUT isntead of a tied dictorial rule, its more like an alligience like a coallition.

I can't really go out and explain it I would have to right a book on this subject lol!!

???



Where's the evidence of Hitler's presence in England and his involvement in the Tavistock program? I've looked for it in the past but could never find any.

Do'n't know are you saying it isn't there? (I gather facts alot an can only partially check the sources and I'm doing this all on top of my head so please state clear if you say that such a book by his sister in law never existed)

Also, why would Nazi authors make such an effort to expose the "Illuminati" and their agenda if they were really a part of it? Even Alex Jones doesn't go nearly as far as Nazi authors like Giselher Wirsing or Anton Zischka.

NIce find I'm going to look it up but even if this was truth then still the entire thing was financed by the west. THey might have become hostile over the course of years but they surely didn't start has enemies.

As I said, I've looked for evidence in the past but could never find any. Feel free to provide me some sources I might have missed.

Wat for the financing of hitler? That I;m not going to present thats all over the web. For hitler being in england? I need to research that for my selve so if I come along the evidences that are typically cited I tell you.

Henry Ford was a supporter of Hitler who oposed the "Illuminati" just as much. Just because he happened to be rich, that doesn't make him part of the "Illuminati".


Read this he's quite a mystery but certainly not all out against illuminati
Henry Ford is often seen to be something of an enigma among the Wall Street elite. For many years in the 20s and 30s Ford was popularly known as an enemy of the financial establishment. Ford accused Morgan and others of using war and revolution as a road to profit and their influence in social systems as a means of personal advancement. By 1938 Henry Ford, in his public statements, had divided financiers into two classes: those who profited from war and used their influence to bring about war for profit, and the "constructive" financiers. Among the latter group he now included the House of Morgan. During a 1938 New York Times interview1 Ford averred that:
Somebody once said that sixty families have directed the destinies of the nation. It might well be said that if somebody would focus the spotlight on twenty-five persons who handle the nation's finances, the world's real war makers would be brought into bold relief.
The Times reporter asked Ford how he equated this assessment with his long-standing criticism of the House of Morgan, to which Ford replied:
There is a constructive and a destructive Wall Street. The House of Morgan represents the constructive. I have known Mr. Morgan for many years. He backed and supported Thomas Edison, who was also my good friend ....
Both he, Morgan, Rockerfeller and Wharburgs where extremely important his Hitlers financing. Especcialy Morgan.




He needed them for the time being, until he had the chance to do without them.



I'm not familiar with the Bank of International Settlements and Youngs and greecelyes (?). Source?

Out of Greecelys own diary if I'm correct. Bankingrelationships continued trough the course of the war and everybody was cool with eachother.

My favorite Nazi authors on this topic are Giselher Wirsing and Anton Zischka. I own some of their publications, but I don't know if they were ever published in English.

OK I'm going to look this up. Whats your view of the Rudolph Hesse thing then? Was Hitler out of controll? Not following the plan anymore? Rudolph tried to do something?

As I said, Hitlerian philosophy was based on a Romanticist view on ancient Germanic culture (including Germanic paganism).

Himmler and his SS were quite a bit into Germanic occuly rituals, but Hitler was not interested in that sort of thing. In Mein Kampf, he supported the separation of state and church and showed no interest in the occult whatsoever.

So are you saying that hitler totaly didn't share these ideas at all? Damn long time ago my head was in the WW2 need to go back to refresh some shit.

Blavatsky's views have little in common with Hitler's. Blavatsky did write on race but her views are very different from Hitler's.

How are their vieews different? Blavasty thoutgh of the superaryan race.

The "Hitler greeting" arm sign was copied from Italian fascists who in turn copied it from the Romans.

I should write down my sources I believe I found it to be also being in use in brittain amongst certain circles.

It is true that some Arristocrats joined their enemy to be able to keep or increase their status. This includes the British monarchy.

I try to be as complete as possible, but I can't provide a source refence for every statement I make. That would be just too time-consuming.

Yeah I know

What potential enemy? Why would the British monarchy risk giving up everything they have in an attempt to overthrow a far more powerful adversary?



The removed the monarchy in some countries (like France or Germany) while they kept it in others. It really depends on the local culture and the obedience of these monarchs.



They ARE living the life of gods.

I doubt it. Running the worl is a lot of responsiblitiy. Even if you are sucking them dry its still a full time job I think with little to no rest.

???[/quote]
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  #99  
Old 11-16-2009, 04:15 AM
Out of the Box Out of the Box is offline
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Default Re: The Top Mason.

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Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
I don't believe it is a pointless issue to begin with. It shows that A rothschild was killed. This means it has been done by a higher person, or a person longing for his power or etc and they succeeded. There is no evidence who that could be so then it could be anyone within illuminati related circles which includes vatican and royals. It is an indication that even rotschilds aren't untouchables perhaps.
Unless he was killed by someone within the same family or it was suicide. That's why I'm saying this reference is pointless.

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Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
Yes I know Mi6 came in 20th centurary but the brittish inteligence itselve predates rotshilds by a full centuary ( think even two). So did the jesuits.
The Jesuits have become irrelevant during the last 2 centuries.

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Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
So if they detect a rising power on their radar either you take it out before it establishes itselve (machiaveli style) or you get in on your side.
Or you fail to respond in time and the rising power gains control over your own organisation, which is precisely what happened...

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Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
I'd say they entire financial conpsiraracy was conceived by royalty and excecuted by orders, societies and jews.
It was conceived by Talmudic Jews, using "secret societies" and other elitist organisations as tools. Kings and clerics were simply useful idiots to these people. In their arrogance, they thought they were so powerful no one could ever challenge them besides other kings and clerics, which is why the Talmudic Jews could overthrow them so easily.

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Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
I still like evidence of is them taking over the royals.
The French revolution and Russian revolution served the very purpose of eliminating the power of the arristocracy and clergy and replace them by a Jewish bourgeois elite. If the Talmudic Jews served the interests of royalty, the French and Russian revolution would never have taken place.

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Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
First: if you are out the spotlight then indeed you can move more easy. You are absolutly right about that. But the royal family are rarely in the spotlights.
Quite the contrary. Paperazzi follow every move of theirs, while they totally ignore the elite banking dynasties.

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Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
But if you are completly outside the spotlight you can be assasinated better.
To the oligarchy, it makes no difference whether you're in or out of the spotlight when you're due for assassination. Think of JFK, Bobby Kennedy, Martin Luther King, Malcolm X, George Lincoln Rockwell, John Lennon and other famous political figures assassinated during the '60s. Think of princess Diana and her mysterious death in a French tunnel.

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Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
Star a revolution is the only option. And the only revolutions that have happened (with significance) are those that are outside the borders of Brunswick/Orange/Hesse terretorium.
What about the French revolution and the Russian revolution? I can't say I'm sure about the French monarchs, but the Russian monarchs definitely had direct blood lines with Belgian, English and other European royal houses.

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Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
You see you can't just ignore that when a aspect of an interbreeding network of protestant royals launches a jewish family and that family supposedly takes over he most notably removes the enemy royals outside the network of interbreeding protestant royals.
The Russian-Orthodox royals in Russia, the Roman-Catholic royals in Spain and the Roman-Catholic royals in Belgium and other non-protestant royals also interbred with the protestant royals you're referring to. Royal interbreeding goes beyond religious affiliations and this is a very weak link in your hypothesis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
While in most cases rotschilds are overwelmingly present, in some they appear to be irrelevant like SKull & Bones.
That's because organisations like Skull & Bones aren't as high-level as those where Rothschilds are overwelmingly present. Skull & Bones is nothing but a breeding ground for mid-level puppets like Bush or Kerry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
I know of only one official freemason I guess probably some others but this organisation is firmly int he hands of the Brittish I believe. This is because of the changes Frederick the Great made to the structure of masonry. I believe it was an brittish ambassador in France wo wrote that Frederick had thereby acuired controll of all freemasonry in Europe. This is before the Rotschilds appeared ont he scene and I don't think this controll ever shifted outside the royal lines.
The masonic link is quite complex as there are many different lodges that operate independently from one another and that have principles that differ between one another.

Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
older elements of this conspiracy are prerotschild and the only think that still can connect them are the royals.
Wrong. The pre-Rothschild connections are a Rosicrucian/Templar connection and a Jewish connection. Royals represent the old order that was challenged and eventually defeated by these newcomers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
You said "well royals aren't fighting for power amongst each other for power now rite?" But this doesn't make sense since they all are part of the same family as the german Brunswick/hesse/orange lineage took over all of Europe praticicaly. The spannish king to the duke of luxembourg to the swedig royalty. All are comming fom the same german families.
That's because marriages have traditionally been used among powerful families to forge alliances. The Jewish bankers do the same thing : they also intermarry with one another (eg. the Warburgs with the Rothschilds)/

Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
Some suggest the Brusnwick/Hesse/Orange dynasty is actually Jewish of origin, however I'm not sure about the evidence for that.
I've read those claims as well, but it's irrelevant anyway since royals today have only very little real power.

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Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
You are never going to find evidence for that first there needs to be evidence that the biblical patriachs even excist how else can this be verified? How do they don't have any controll behind the scenes?

Pilgrim Society, The 1001club, Le Cercle, Skull & Bones, Bilgerberg Group, Trilateral, CFR, Club of Rome

Out of all these groups mentioned the royals are patrons or have founded the Pilgrim Society, 1001, Cercle (habsburg in this case) Bilderberg

The club of Rome is heavily connected with the Royal Institute for International Affairs who is also responsible for the infamous tavistock. Patroned by the Queen
Just because they're patrons, that doesn't mean they have a more than marginal voice in those organisations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
Oww I see now where you are getting it. Your argument is that freemasonry must be oppisite side because they casue revolutions against kings? Well I agree with the French Revolution. But the French king was not part of the 'network of interbeeding royals' that I am talking about.
What about the Russian revolution, then? The Czar's wife was even a direct descendant of the Hesse bloodline (Alix of Hesse).

Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
I understand that thiswas definitly not a fabrication bu I'm saying all the earlier talk about him being such a genius stealing money this is just to discredit the rotschilds by anti-rotschild activists since I couldn't find evidence for that.
I don't think genius had anything to do with it. IMO, it was a combination of luck and a lack of scrupules.

Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
Plus I once read I think on wikipedia about accusation directed at on of the hanover kings that he knew of a crisis in the making forgot about it are your familiair with this?
Nope.

Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
So what is the relationship between the Rothschild and the royals in your opinion and on what do you base this?
The Rothschilds and other "court Jews" started out as bankers and advisors of the royals, but in time this gave them so much power the royals had to choose between either becoming their puppets or being eradicated by revolutionary forces (like in France and Russia).

I base this claim on the following two facts :
  • the decline of the arristocracy and clergy and their replacement by the bourgeois from the French revolution onwards.
  • the decline of traditional European values and replacement by anti-European Talmudic values from the French revolution onwards.
If royals were truely in charge, you would expect a continuation of arristocratic power and you would certainly not expect a replacement of traditional European values by anti-European Talmudic values.

Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
Where's the evidence of Hitler's presence in England and his involvement in the Tavistock program? I've looked for it in the past but could never find any.

Do'n't know are you saying it isn't there? (I gather facts alot an can only partially check the sources and I'm doing this all on top of my head so please state clear if you say that such a book by his sister in law never existed)
I don't know if there is such a book, but I've never found any traces of it nor of any other evidence that Hitler was involved with Tavistock or British intelligence in general. I do know, however, that Hitler orriginally joined the NSDAP party as a spy for the German army, but he never kept this a secret as he mentioned it in Mein Kampf.

Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
Also, why would Nazi authors make such an effort to expose the "Illuminati" and their agenda if they were really a part of it? Even Alex Jones doesn't go nearly as far as Nazi authors like Giselher Wirsing or Anton Zischka.

NIce find I'm going to look it up but even if this was truth then still the entire thing was financed by the west. THey might have become hostile over the course of years but they surely didn't start has enemies.
Adolf Hitler may have had "Illuminati" sponsoring him in the beginning, just like the "Illuminati" sponsored Saddam Hussain for some time. That doesn't make Hitler their puppet any more than Saddam was their puppet.

Also, I'd like to point out that not all industrialists are/were "Illuminati" puppets. For example, Henry Ford was a self-made millionaire who actually supported the interests of the American people and supported Hitler out of personal ideology.

Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
Wat for the financing of hitler? That I;m not going to present thats all over the web.
I already explained why financial support of Hitler by some powerful industrialists doesn't prove anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
Read this he's quite a mystery but certainly not all out against illuminati
Henry Ford is often seen to be something of an enigma among the Wall Street elite. For many years in the 20s and 30s Ford was popularly known as an enemy of the financial establishment. Ford accused Morgan and others of using war and revolution as a road to profit and their influence in social systems as a means of personal advancement. By 1938 Henry Ford, in his public statements, had divided financiers into two classes: those who profited from war and used their influence to bring about war for profit, and the "constructive" financiers. Among the latter group he now included the House of Morgan. During a 1938 New York Times interview1 Ford averred that:
Somebody once said that sixty families have directed the destinies of the nation. It might well be said that if somebody would focus the spotlight on twenty-five persons who handle the nation's finances, the world's real war makers would be brought into bold relief.
The Times reporter asked Ford how he equated this assessment with his long-standing criticism of the House of Morgan, to which Ford replied:
There is a constructive and a destructive Wall Street. The House of Morgan represents the constructive. I have known Mr. Morgan for many years. He backed and supported Thomas Edison, who was also my good friend ....
Both he, Morgan, Rockerfeller and Wharburgs where extremely important his Hitlers financing. Especcialy Morgan.
I bet Morgan started out as what Ford calls a "constructive financeer" but ended up a "destructive financeer" as he came to realise the "destructive financeers" would destroy his empire if he didn't join them... much like the royals did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
OK I'm going to look this up. Whats your view of the Rudolph Hesse thing then? Was Hitler out of controll? Not following the plan anymore? Rudolph tried to do something?
In his naivity, Rudolf Hess believed he could arrange peace with Britain behind the backs of the British warmongers and flew to Britain only to be betrayed by his contacts and serve a life sentence in jail for his heroism.

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Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
So are you saying that hitler totaly didn't share these ideas at all? Damn long time ago my head was in the WW2 need to go back to refresh some shit.
Hitler shared with Himmler a love for traditional Germanic culture, but unlike Himmler Hitler wasn't really interested in all this esoteric occult stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
How are their vieews different? Blavasty thoutgh of the superaryan race.
Back in the 19th century, pretty much every educated white person believed in the superiority of white people over other people. This was considered self-evident by a comparison of Western culture with other cultures.

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Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
I should write down my sources I believe I found it to be also being in use in brittain amongst certain circles.
By fascists perhaps?!?

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Originally Posted by makaveli View Post
I doubt it. Running the worl is a lot of responsiblitiy. Even if you are sucking them dry its still a full time job I think with little to no rest.
The more power you have, the more you can delegate to others
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Old 11-16-2009, 08:28 AM
makaveli makaveli is offline
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Default Re: The Top Mason.

Unless he was killed by someone within the same family or it was suicide. That's why I'm saying this reference is pointless.

But this is just werid you are saying he could only be killed by his own family or committed suicide but could not be from anyone outside. This suggests you look at the murder with prejudgement. I used the murder as a way of opening a possibily that he might have been murdered from outside.

The Jesuits have become irrelevant during the last 2 centuries.

Yes but not at the time of the rise of rotschilds and they could have foreseen this and acted against.

Or you fail to respond in time and the rising power gains control over your own organisation, which is precisely what happened...

Then show me evidence of this instead of narrating a story.

It was conceived by Talmudic Jews, using "secret societies" and other elitist organisations as tools. Kings and clerics were simply useful idiots to these people. In their arrogance, they thought they were so powerful no one could ever challenge them besides other kings and clerics, which is why the Talmudic Jews could overthrow them so easily.

Useful idiots? Which king or queen in your opinion was a usefull idiot? Frederick the Great? Queen Elizabeth? WHo exactly is it you are accussing of being a puppet. You know you can't name the few mentioned cause it was Frederick the Great who reshaped the entire freemsonary making himselve head of it and used jews for dirty jobs (and if they had serverd their purpose I wouldn't be suprised he killed them). So how exactly was Frederick controlled by Jews? Tell me that. You are just saying this things but you gotta name some people and point some events that have happened that show this to be the case.

The French revolution and Russian revolution served the very purpose of eliminating the power of the arristocracy and clergy and replace them by a Jewish bourgeois elite. If the Talmudic Jews served the interests of royalty, the French and Russian revolution would never have taken place.

But you can also look the other way around: french monarch and russion monarchs where enemies to the royal bloodlines of Hesse/Brunswick. So there are two ways to look at it but you simply don't do that. The only way the Russian household as far as I am aware is connected in trough the link of Hesse wich initselve isn't a strong one.

Quite the contrary. Paperazzi follow every move of theirs, while they totally ignore the elite banking dynasties.

Paperazzi follow every move??? lol OK rite whatever......
Obviously you don't know that much about the current royal house and just go by the media.

To the oligarchy, it makes no difference whether you're in or out of the spotlight when you're due for assassination. Think of JFK, Bobby Kennedy, Martin Luther King, Malcolm X, George Lincoln Rockwell, John Lennon and other famous political figures assassinated during the '60s. Think of princess Diana and her mysterious death in a French tunnel.

Princess Diania never died in my opinion its just one big charade. The man you mention are just one man standing team. The royals are a whole family how to assasinate them all? Need a revolution. That hasn't happened in the the coutries where royals reign who lauchned rotschilds.

What about the French revolution and the Russian revolution? I can't say I'm sure about the French monarchs, but the Russian monarchs definitely had direct blood lines with Belgian, English and other European royal houses.

So did the french. All royals have intermarries but not on the scale of the brunshwick/hesse/orange they have praticaly become one huge family with some outside marriages to other monarchs such as the french or russian.

The Russian-Orthodox royals in Russia, the Roman-Catholic royals in Spain and the Roman-Catholic royals in Belgium and other non-protestant royals also interbred with the protestant royals you're referring to. Royal interbreeding goes beyond religious affiliations and this is a very weak link in your hypothesis.

No it isn't lol I've traced the entire geneological chart if there is interbreeding its only from time to time but never on grand scale nees to nees to uncle to sister etc like witht he brusnwick and they are all in the right places where the baviaria illuminati has been. One, two or even tree marriages doesn't matter over an course of time. Before the protestant reformation I say seven intermarriages between brunwick and hesse over 8 generations. And they where the official ones I could research on wikipedia, the others beyond it also must be numerous. Besides you don't even know what all the evidences are that support my hypotheses.

The religion itselve doesn't matter cause they aren't of christian religion its just the side they are one: the old chatholic system or the new system that will be the NWO. Sometimes people can still be married out of the sides for maintaince of peace as happened all over history but this doesm't mean anything.

That's because organisations like Skull & Bones aren't as high-level as those where Rothschilds are overwelmingly present. Skull & Bones is nothing but a breeding ground for mid-level puppets like Bush or Kerry.

But you just agreed in the other post that skull & bones are above rockerfellers you said would figgur cause rockerfellers arent jewish! So they praticaly run the USA for someone. Not Rotschilds.

Wrong. The pre-Rothschild connections are a Rosicrucian/Templar connection and a Jewish connection. Royals represent the old order that was challenged and eventually defeated by these newcomers.

Uh lol please so me your sources I this cause I don't think they excist. As I've shown Templars protected the Frensh King in de Guarde de Ecosse. What do you have to say to that. It was universially considered that Stuarts where patrons of templarism hence DukeFerdinand first mentioned the watered down input of the Stuarts in templarism as an excuse to become grand master. What do you have to say to that? James I after a meeting with Tycho Brahe and his Hessian allie prince created his order of a certain number of knights in resemblence of the kabbala and it is considered that this was the take-off of jacobite rosicrucianim. Again royals involved. John Dee as fanatic with Elizabeth. For god sake the entire house of Hesse was a manifestation of Rosicrucianism as Frances Yates points out. Where the hell do you get this information that they where enemies? The prerosicruciantemplarjewish power was never with the royals but with the pope. This was their means of getting it back.

That's because marriages have traditionally been used among powerful families to forge alliances. The Jewish bankers do the same thing : they also intermarry with one another (eg. the Warburgs with the Rothschilds)/

Lol you are not even seriously looking at the houses are you just inserting an counterargument. To look at the trend of intermarrieng you'll see that the german royals praticaly have taken over everything the last centuaries where else these so called allience marrigages would only occasianally take in a take over once in the how many years.

I've read those claims as well, but it's irrelevant anyway since royals today have only very little real power.

I start to get the feeling you don't present arguments you present dogmas

Just because they're patrons, that doesn't mean they have a more than marginal voice in those organisations.

But this is just against your own argument. You say that the rothschilds run these groups secretly and I don't know because I'm not in them this is not rite. I said this puts them in an incredible sphere of influence which could possibly be used. Not being on the inside we can't say and you can't say either. So to suggest there isn't even a chance they have big influence is aburd. Plus they even founded the very orginsations. It was a grandfather of Diana I believe who came up with the name Pilgrim. It was Bernard who lead the Bilderbergers. It has been Prince Phillip with his 1001 club.
Plus the fact that it is known they queen and the ministers meet alteast weekly and charles sends them letters constantly on how to do their bussinues and tries to influence them every time around. THis is even common fact and shown on brittish telivion on several documentaries. Afterwards they tried to get a better image with a public relation company.

What about the Russian revolution, then? The Czar's wife was even a direct descendant of the Hesse bloodline (Alix of Hesse).

Yeas of course I know about this but I don't consider this particilair line very influential in the Russian court.

I don't think genius had anything to do with it. IMO, it was a combination of luck and a lack of scrupules.



Nope.

Well I know its outthere cause I've read it somewhere and when I find it I'll post it here.

The Rothschilds and other "court Jews" started out as bankers and advisors of the royals, but in time this gave them so much power the royals had to choose between either becoming their puppets or being eradicated by revolutionary forces (like in France and Russia).


I base this claim on the following two facts :
  • the decline of the arristocracy and clergy and their replacement by the bourgeois from the French revolution onwards.
  • the decline of traditional European values and replacement by anti-European Talmudic values from the French revolution onwards.
If royals were truely in charge, you would expect a continuation of arristocratic power and you would certainly not expect a replacement of traditional European values by anti-European Talmudic values.

I still see strong aristrocratic pressence appearantly you never read anything of Carroll Quigley or studied the Pilgrim Society. Besides this is all the reason you have for saying the royals are out of power? Besides you do know that since these royals claim jewish heritage its not suprising to see jews coming back to power and talmudic values. Besides what values are we actually talking about here?

I don't know if there is such a book, but I've never found any traces of it nor of any other evidence that Hitler was involved with Tavistock or British intelligence in general. I do know, however, that Hitler orriginally joined the NSDAP party as a spy for the German army, but he never kept this a secret as he mentioned it in Mein Kampf.
Adolf Hitler may have had "Illuminati" sponsoring him in the beginning, just like the "Illuminati" sponsored Saddam Hussain for some time. That doesn't make Hitler their puppet any more than Saddam was their puppet.

Now but if if they were put in this position by them they where atleast to be semi-puppets.

Also, I'd like to point out that not all industrialists are/were "Illuminati" puppets. For example, Henry Ford was a self-made millionaire who actually supported the interests of the American people and supported Hitler out of personal ideology.
I already explained why financial support of Hitler by some powerful industrialists doesn't prove anything.

No you didn't.

I bet Morgan started out as what Ford calls a "constructive financeer" but ended up a "destructive financeer" as he came to realise the "destructive financeers" would destroy his empire if he didn't join them... much like the royals did.

Complete nonsese you haven't read the quote right. It says first there was criticism against the house of Morgan but then Henry shifted sides and then he started calling the House of Morgan constructive.

In his naivity, Rudolf Hess believed he could arrange peace with Britain behind the backs of the British warmongers and flew to Britain only to be betrayed by his contacts and serve a life sentence in jail for his heroism.

Hitler shared with Himmler a love for traditional Germanic culture, but unlike Himmler Hitler wasn't really interested in all this esoteric occult stuff.

But even then you are still having a party with amazing amount of influence from the THule society and the occult. Perhaps not very present in Hitletarian circles but still present in his party. If he was against it it wouldn't have been there.

Back in the 19th century, pretty much every educated white person believed in the superiority of white people over other people. This was considered self-evident by a comparison of Western culture with other cultures.

Can't tell have no information on this.

By fascists perhaps?!?

Yeah maybe but it was a certain society or something can't find it anymore...

The more power you have, the more you can delegate to others

Everytime I try to visualise this hierarchy with the rotschilds on top it just fall apart and doesn't hold. And I've been trying to visualise it like over 50 working hours now it only adds up with the royals on top.
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