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  #111  
Old 11-20-2009, 02:46 PM
TrutherD TrutherD is offline
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Default Re: Contrails cannot form into clouds (proof!)


Instead of quelling something that is extraordinarily plausible why don't you try working toward garnering support for whatever you feel is good and righteous? Surely your time could be better spent than making one-sided rants and attacks against people who have already expressed numerous reasons for their opinion. There must be something of a greater threat to the safety and security of you and your loved ones than "chemtrail believers". You do realize being rude is probably not the best way to convert people to your view, right? Are you really that bitter? Cheer up, mate. There's always viagra (though I would suggest Cayenne and Maca Root instead). :P (Couldn't resist!)

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Last edited by TrutherD : 11-20-2009 at 03:17 PM.
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  #112  
Old 11-20-2009, 03:57 PM
JazzRoc JazzRoc is offline
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Default Re: Contrails cannot form into clouds (proof!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrutherD View Post
Instead of quelling something that is extraordinarily plausible
Conmen are that.

Quote:
why don't you try working toward garnering support for whatever you feel is good and righteous?
My understanding of aircraft and the atmosphere is "good and righteous". Because of it I KNOW your behavior is BAD and WRONGFUL.

Quote:
Surely your time could be better spent than making one-sided rants and attacks against people who have already expressed numerous reasons for their opinion.
Every one of your "reasons" is incorrect. In the three years since I first heard of this crap I have NEVER heard a chemtrailer propose a SINGLE correct "reason". You are NEVER right. Even stopped clocks are correct twice a day. "Chemtrail" reasoning is simply abysmal. Hopeless. Pathetic. Bad. Fraudulent. Corrupt.

Quote:
There must be something of a greater threat to the safety and security of you and your loved ones than "chemtrail believers".
What? Thousands of very stupid liars slandering innocent people while conspirators conspire at their leisure?

Quote:
You do realize being rude is probably not the best way to convert people to your view, right?
Well REASON doesn't seem to work with you. You make a mockery of debate with your arrogant pseudoscience.

Quote:
Are you really that bitter? Cheer up, mate. There's always viagra (though I would suggest Cayenne and Maca Root instead). :P (Couldn't resist!)
No. Not really. I'm confident you'll provide your own nemesis if you're determined enough. I won't have to bother. I've made you an offer, which you've rejected. That's the end of it.
I'm busy with this, on my desert island:
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  #113  
Old 11-20-2009, 05:03 PM
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stompk stompk is offline
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Default Re: Contrails cannot form into clouds (proof!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzRoc View Post
It didn't work like that.

It's just that SOME conspiracy theories NEED quelling.
Of course they do. Otherwise the Queen and her ilk (ilk being JazzRoc), wouldn't
be able to sicken the global population with their evil schemes.

You can spew your lies all you want, the truth is there is a global awakening
going on and people are looking up.

Google Chemtrails, and you get nearly 1/2 million hits.

Goat Schtuppers like you are going down.
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  #114  
Old 11-20-2009, 05:10 PM
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stompk stompk is offline
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Default Re: Contrails cannot form into clouds (proof!)

Quote:
GFS Chemicals, Inc. maintains a proud tradition in these chemistries, particularly compounds derived from iodine. Our iodides, iodates, and periodates have established a worldwide reputation for high quality and high purity. These are used in everything from weather modification to organic catalysts to analytical chemistry
Iodine and Bromine Chemistries - GFS-CHEMICALS
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  #115  
Old 11-20-2009, 09:03 PM
TrutherD TrutherD is offline
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Default Re: Contrails cannot form into clouds (proof!)

There doesn't seem much point in talking further, JazzRoc. You ignore my stated position and the reasons behind it, ridicule legitimate interpretations of science and discount eye-witness accounts. It's all just a lot of immature ranting and raving. I know you can see plainly that the spraying cannot be explained by ice saturation alone. Whether you choose to take the right side on this, defending the rights of the average person who want simple answers to legitimate questions, is your choice. Whether you choose to have a conversation with mutual respect would be your choice, too - but that really should have happened 10 posts ago, and I do not have much faith in your ability to take part in such. This is probably because your argument holds no water whatsoever. That is why you are reduced to personal attacks as the foundation of your conversation here.
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  #116  
Old 11-21-2009, 09:05 AM
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Default Re: Contrails cannot form into clouds (proof!)

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  #117  
Old 11-21-2009, 04:15 PM
TrutherD TrutherD is offline
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Default Re: Contrails cannot form into clouds (proof!)

Last night it started to clear up a bit, but the thick overcast is back in full force today. After doing my rounds handing out DVDs (including to a few cute girls), I looked at rainwater under a dark-field microscope. I took a slide outside and waited about 5 minutes until it was covered with rain droplets. I put it under the microscope at magnification up to 16x60x (960x). I didn't see anything moving, but I did see a lot of very tiny possible fibers. I can't rule out slide contamination yet (it is practically impossible to get a slide 100% clean) and I do not have access to advanced techniques such as resonance scanning to identify the material nor far more advanced live microscopy up to 60,000x such as utilized by Royal Raymond Rife in the 30's to see very tiny organisms (that technology is, of course, harshly suppressed). To me, the fibers looked a lot smaller than normal dust contamination and it did not appear to be a uniform scrape or anything on the glass. The slide came straight from the box, to sampling, to the 'scope. A few of the supposed fibers were twisted up in close proximity, etc. Perhaps I can concentrate or strain the rainwater which should amplify their number and clearly rule out slide contamination.
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Last edited by TrutherD : 11-21-2009 at 05:05 PM.
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  #118  
Old 11-21-2009, 04:59 PM
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stompk stompk is offline
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Default Re: Contrails cannot form into clouds (proof!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrutherD View Post
Last night it started to clear up a bit, but the thick overcast is back in full force today. After doing my rounds handing out DVDs (including to a few cute girls), I looked at rainwater under a dark-field microscope. I took a slide outside and waited about 5 minutes until it was covered with rain droplets. I put it under the microscope at magnification up to 16x60x (960x). I didn't see anything moving, but I did see a lot of very tiny possible fibers. I can't rule out slide contamination yet (it is practically impossible to get a slide 100% clean) and I do not have access to advanced techniques such as resonance scanning to identify the material nor far more advanced live microscopy up to 60,000x such as utilized by Royal Raymond Rife in the 30's to see very tiny organisms (that technology is, of course, harshly suppressed). To me, the fibers looked a lot smaller than normal dust contamination and it did not appear to be a uniform scrape or anything on the glass. The slide came straight from the box, to sampling, to the 'scope. A few of the supposed fibers were twisted up in close proximity, etc. Perhaps I can concentrate or strain the rainwater which should amplify their number and clearly rule out slide contamination.
Nice work TrutherD. Great scientific information!

I have some time to review more of this Chemtrail documents. I'm finding alot, if not all of the chemical talked about in the document are the same chemicals used in biological/chemical warfare.
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  #119  
Old 11-21-2009, 05:08 PM
TrutherD TrutherD is offline
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Default Re: Contrails cannot form into clouds (proof!)

Good job, stompk. I'm glad you find my posts informative. I think chemtrails could be one of the leading causes of the downfall of the NWO. We've got to !

Warning: Paid government troll post below
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Last edited by TrutherD : 11-21-2009 at 05:19 PM.
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  #120  
Old 11-21-2009, 05:11 PM
JazzRoc JazzRoc is offline
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Default Re: Contrails cannot form into clouds (proof!)

That's all I have done? Abuse you? You have yet to respond to my first post. The nub of which I shall return to, seeing as the two of you are
without any manners whatsoever. Until you respond to it I shall continue to put this up.

“Contrails to Cirrus—Morphology, Microphysics, and Radiative Properties”:

http://www-pm.larc.nasa.gov/sass/pub...s_JAMC2006.pdf

And I have translated the last two sections for you:

"Remarks—Climatic impact

It is interesting that the mean optical depth found in this case (0.35) corresponds to that found in climatological satellite measurements by Ponater et al. (2002) and Minnis et al. (2004), and that the microphysical properties are consistent with a wide range of observations and models by prior authors. Accordingly, it is appropriate to speculate on their effect on climate.
The issue of the impact of contrail-generated cirrus (CS) on climate change has been treated by a number of investigators.
Sassen (1997) suggested that the unusually small particles typical of many persistent contrails might favor the albedo cooling over the greenhouse warming. Using a 2D mesoscale cloud model, Khvorostyanov and Sassen (1998) computed the distribution of the mean crystal radius, concentration, and ice water content of a contrail after 30 minutes of development.
They found a twofold effect. At the surface, the net greenhouse minus albedo effect was negative with a cooling of 15 Watts per square meter.
However, at the top of the atmosphere (corresponding to the entire atmospheric column), the net effect was a warming of 8 Watts per square meter.
We note that the latter simulation for the early stage of the cloud produced very large concentrations of small crystals, and that the longwave warming would be increased relative to the shortwave cooling, with the much larger particles, such as are found in the present study.
An evaluation of the effects of contrail cirrus over the globe is complex because of the great geographic and diurnal variability of air traffic, the variability of optical thickness and persistence of the clouds, the background brightness, and the natural changes in ambient humidity (Minnis 2003).
There are also a number of feedback mechanisms at play that climate models have not dealt with very well.
The finding that the vertical motions accompanying the transformation to cirrus also increase the humidity above the contrail is one such factor (Jensen et al. 1998). Nevertheless, using results from a general circulation model simulation of contrails, Minnis et al. (2004) found that the cirrus trends resulting from contrails in the United States are estimated to cause a tropospheric warming of 0.2– 0.3C per decade, a range that includes the observed trend of 0.27C per decade between 1975 and 1994. One must emphasize that, even if correct, this is a regional effect.
We may summarize the various studies as follows:
1) regional effects in the 1990s in the United States and Europe have a cover of 0.5%–2% with a maximum over Europe of 0.35%, and warming of 0.1–0.2 W per square metre, and
2) global effects that are about 0.1 of the regional values.
These estimates are based upon the work of Minnis et al. (1998), Ponater et al. (2002), Palikonda et al. (2002), and Minnis et al. (2004).
The latter authors also project an aircraft scenario for 2050 that would produce a regional radiative forcing of 1.5 Watts per square metre over Europe, a global coverage of 0.5%, and a radiative forcing of 0.05 Watts per square metre. In short, the present-day effects are significant regionally but in the noise globally. Further research is necessary to assess factors such as the amount of cirrus that is initiated by the contrails but not distinguishable from natural cirrus.

Summary and Conclusions

This study of the transformation of contrails to cirrus uncinus (mares’ tails) was made possible by a fortuitous and unique combination of observations by a groundbased camera, a vertically pointing lidar, satellite imagery, and a new database of aircraft flight tracks. The photograph documented the metamorphosis of the contrails to cirrus and the formation of fallstreaks almost continuously along the contrails in directions consistent with the winds.
A novel method was developed to use the visible photograph with the lidar-measured cloud heights to obtain the true orientation of the contrails and fallstreaks, their spacing, and their dimensions.
Although the cirrus lines appeared to converge in the southwest, they were actually almost parallel to one another, oriented from about 232 to 52 and spaced about 4–5 km apart, as confirmed by the satellite image and by the time spacing of their passage over the lidar.
The flight tracks occurred in two corridors: the western corridor corresponded to flights from east coast cities to Atlanta and others in the general vicinity; the eastern corridor flights originated mostly from the same cities to destinations in Florida and the vicinity.
Although the flight tracks in each corridor followed nearly identical paths in sequence, their contrails separated in time and were advected to the southeast with the component of the wind normal to the trail. When the contrails passed over the lidar at GSFC each appeared as a cirrus uncinus cloud with a generator turret and fallstreak of ice crystals oriented nearly normal to the length of the contrail. Using the appropriate component of the wind to extrapolate backward in time, we were able to correlate each contrail at the lidar with a specific aircraft flight with a remarkable correlation coefficient of 0.99.
The older contrails from a few of the flights in the western corridor arrived at the lidar nearly simultaneously with the younger ones from the eastern corridor, thus producing broader contrail cirrus at the lidar. This is also manifested by the overlap of contrails in the eastern corridor as seen by the satellite. The lag between the initial formation and the time of first detection by MODIS is approx. 33 min. The 2 h required for the contrails from the western corridor to reach the lidar at GSFC is a measure of their minimum lifetime, because they persisted beyond GSFC. The lead author watched them for about 1–2 hours later in the afternoon.
Among other notable features of the contrails, which have formed at about -40C, are the convective turrets or generator cells of the cirrus uncinus that grow to 1–2-km horizontal size from the initial downward pendants created by the wake dynamics of the aircraft, as shown by other investigators. The pendants are composed of a large concentration of tiny ice crystals and large ice water content (IWC) and grow via heating by longwave radiation from the ground.
The brightness of the generator cells, comparable to that of warm cumulus, is also a result of the large concentration of tiny ice particles, as deduced from the lidar observations and by in situ sampling by prior authors.
The lidar observations provided three time–height profiles:
1) the attenuated lidar scattering ratio (ALSR)
2) the extinction coefficient (d)
3) the radar reflectivity factor (Z)
The slope of the fallstreaks provided particle fall speeds and an approximation to the particle median volume diameters (D0). The values of d and D0 lead to the IWC and to the parameter K = (d/IWC), the ratio of extinction to IWC. All of the values deduced are in reasonable agreement with those by other investigators. The vertical integrals of d and IWC provide the optical thickness T and ice water path (IWP), respectively.
The time-averaged values (over the 93-min period observed by the lidar) are Tau = 0.352 and <IWP> = 8.14 grams per square meter, and are dominated by the fallstreaks.
The average ice water per meter along the length of the contrail is 16 Kilograms (35.4 pounds) per meter, some three to four orders of magnitude (1,000 to 10,000 times) greater than the water vapor released by typical jet aircraft, also similar to previously reported values.
The net effect of the water and particles released by the aircraft results in a major inadvertent modification of the atmosphere under appropriate ambient conditions. Furthermore, the evaporation of the fallstreaks at lower levels indicates the downward transfer of moisture from the upper levels where the crystals have grown.
Although most investigators favor the finding that contrail cirrus produce atmospheric warming on regional scales in the United States and Europe, the impact on global warming is still in the noise. Should aircraft activity increase as projected, the global effects would become significant by 2050."

Quote:
Patrick Minnis is a shill.


DR. PATRICK MINNIS, Climate Sciences Branch, NASA Langley Research Center, Mail Stop 420, Hampton, VA 23681.
Born in Shawnee, Oklahoma. Raised in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma graduating from Casady School in 1968.
1991 – Ph.D., University of Utah, Salt Lake City, UT, Meteorology 1978 – M.S., Colorado State University, Ft. Collins, CO, Atmospheric Science
1972 – B.E., Vanderbilt University, Nashville, TN, Materials Science & Metallurgical Engineering, Senior Research Scientist, NASA Langley Research Center Science Directorate,
1981-1986, Research Scientist, NASA Langley Research Center Materials Application and Technology Division,
1977-1981, Research Engineer, Kentron International,
1972-1975, Product Engineer, Ferro Fiberglass.

So let us ask the question:

are stompk and trutherD honest and genuine dedicated researchers, and Dr. Patrick Minnis a SHILL

or is it the case that stompk and trutherD are ignorant, lazy, lying, desperate and slanderous scumbags, and Dr. Patrick Minnis Ph.D., (author of at least 153 scientific papers on the atmosphere) possibly the most talented, qualified, hard-working and accomplished expert on Atmospheric Physics in the world?

Hmmm. Difficult...

And let us continue to what the research paper says: "CONTRAILS FORM INTO CLOUDS".

Duh, that's the OPPOSITE, A DIRECT CONTRADICTION OF THIS THREAD. And they contradicted it with DIRECT EVIDENCE, you know, pictures, measurements, samples, and simulations, followed by calculations and predictions. Science, really...

And what evidence does this thread provide? Simplistic and unsupported assertions made from a 56-yr-old rough and ready graph which was prepared for avoiding contrails, and videos of contrails. Pseudoscience, REALLY.

Duh, who to believe?


Science is NOT a belief system. It's an UNBELIEF system. Nothing is asserted without evidence. This enables ACCURATE predictions to be made. By that I mean that when the predicted event occurs, it OCCURS AS IT WAS PREDICTED.

ALL belief systems, religion, pseudoscience, spoon-bending, tea-leaf reading, "chemtrails", are BULLSHIT.

PLEASE LEARN TO UNDERSTAND SCIENCE BEFORE YOUR IGNORANCE KILLS US ALL
.
.

Last edited by JazzRoc : 11-21-2009 at 05:57 PM.
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