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  #31  
Old 12-01-2009, 01:55 PM
JazzRoc JazzRoc is offline
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Default Re: Are the Laws of Physics Wrong?


Text books quoting FORCE are doing so in terms of MASS x ACCELERATION being FORCE. They are talking about LIFTING WEIGHTS, and as you know, the WEIGHT of a body is actually its mass times its acceleration due to gravity.
Hence the true equation is as I have said Work done = Distance x Mass x Acceleration (frequently G). In space (free of fields) this still applies. The acceleration is whatever is imparted to the mass over the particular distance.
It's something that most people intuit, but apparently you don't. This "intuition" has allowed most physics book writers to abbreviate what they mean to the point where it's possible to misunderstand them.
It really should be obvious to you that pushing or lifting an object twice as heavy as another object should involve twice as much work. More obvious, surely, than suddenly imagining you had discovered a new branch of physics.
In your options, the second requires twice as much work as the first.
And you're still as wrong as you were before. You aren't reading what I'm writing.
You may think what you like. If you're in a permanent mess because you can't see it any other way, this will be quite to my taste.

I like seeing hubris in others.


Last edited by JazzRoc : 12-01-2009 at 01:58 PM.
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  #32  
Old 12-02-2009, 11:28 AM
galexander galexander is offline
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Default Re: Are the Laws of Physics Wrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzRoc View Post
Text books quoting FORCE are doing so in terms of MASS x ACCELERATION being FORCE. They are talking about LIFTING WEIGHTS, and as you know, the WEIGHT of a body is actually its mass times its acceleration due to gravity.
Hence the true equation is as I have said Work done = Distance x Mass x Acceleration (frequently G). In space (free of fields) this still applies. The acceleration is whatever is imparted to the mass over the particular distance.
It's something that most people intuit, but apparently you don't. This "intuition" has allowed most physics book writers to abbreviate what they mean to the point where it's possible to misunderstand them.
It really should be obvious to you that pushing or lifting an object twice as heavy as another object should involve twice as much work. More obvious, surely, than suddenly imagining you had discovered a new branch of physics.
In your options, the second requires twice as much work as the first.
And you're still as wrong as you were before. You aren't reading what I'm writing.
You may think what you like. If you're in a permanent mess because you can't see it any other way, this will be quite to my taste.

I like seeing hubris in others.
You're just trying to cloud the issue now.

Also you have just contradicted what you previously claimed. Earlier you said it was W.D. = Force x Mass x Distance and now its W.D. = Distance x Mass x Acceleration.

Make your mind up JazzRoc.

Anyway your last equation still doesn't satisfactorily explain my example. The mass is fixed as is the force pushing the weights. And I don't dispute that the acceleration is different for each weight.

Looks like I've got you on the run JazzRoc.
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  #33  
Old 12-03-2009, 02:18 AM
JazzRoc JazzRoc is offline
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Default Re: Are the Laws of Physics Wrong?

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Originally Posted by galexander View Post
You're just trying to cloud the issue now.
Also you have just contradicted what you previously claimed. Earlier you said it was W.D. = Force x Mass x Distance and now its W.D. = Distance x Mass x Acceleration.
Make your mind up JazzRoc. Anyway your last equation still doesn't satisfactorily explain my example. The mass is fixed as is the force pushing the weights. And I don't dispute that the acceleration is different for each weight. Looks like I've got you on the run JazzRoc.
"W.D. = Force x Mass x Distance and W.D. = Distance x Mass x Acceleration"
Well. The latter is correct.

I had to dredge back some fifty years. You should try that sometime.

When a force acts on a body and causes it to move against a resistance the force is said to do work.
If the force does not vary in magnitude and is in the direction of motion, the amount of work done is equal to the product of the force and the distance moved, or -
Work = force x distance
If a force of one pound acts through a distance of one foot, the amount of work done is -
1 foot x 1 lb = 1 foot-pound
and one foot-pound is called the unit of work. If a weight of 1 lb is lifted through a vertical distance of 1 foot, 1 foot-pound of work is done. If a weight of, say, 7 lbs is lifted through a vertical distance of 9 feet, the work spent in lifting is -
9 x 7 = 63 foot-pounds

Now the "pound" is the force a pound mass exerts in the earth's gravitational field.
The "pound" force is the MASS of that pound times the ACCELERATION due to gravity.
hence W.D. = Distance x Mass x Acceleration

My stickiness with this subject is to do with Metric and Imperial units. Imperial (American) I find much easier to deal with: foot-pounds instead of G x newton-metres.

But the important point is that weight = mass x G, which is where confusion may spring.

Also work calculations done outside a gravity field have to take into account the acceleration involved from one speed to another to arrive at resolution: they no longer involve a return to a rest state.

Good luck.
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