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  #191  
Old 03-30-2010, 08:32 PM
JazzRoc JazzRoc is offline
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Default Re: Contrails cannot form into clouds (proof!)


"According to what you have written on this thread, I am under the impression that you know very little about this topic and the earth on which you live."
How?

"You continue to contradict yourself."
Where?

Cloud-seeding modifies the weather"
As reported on TV? NO. Nor as measured by atmospheric scientists either.

"just as creating water vapour clouds modifies the weather."
There are NO SUCH THINGS as "water vapor clouds". There is "water vapor" and there are "clouds".

"Clouds are a vital source for weather on Earth"
NO. The Sun is. The SEA is. The ATMOSPHERE is. All three are necessary. Clouds will form as a consequence.

"without them weather would not exist"
See above.

"Ah, I never said cloud-seeding was a conspiracy."
Nor did I say you did.

"You would be wise to discontinue attributing comments to me that I have not written."
I'll do so if I ever do so.

In other words, making-up things that I have not said (i.e., lieing).
You mean "lying". Where did I do that?

I'm not being rhetorical here. Answer my questions and quit the astroturfing.


Last edited by JazzRoc : 03-30-2010 at 08:34 PM.
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  #192  
Old 03-31-2010, 12:54 AM
BlueAngel BlueAngel is offline
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Default Re: Contrails cannot form into clouds (proof!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzRoc View Post
"According to what you have written on this thread, I am under the impression that you know very little about this topic and the earth on which you live."
How?

"You continue to contradict yourself."
Where?

Cloud-seeding modifies the weather"
As reported on TV? NO. Nor as measured by atmospheric scientists either.

"just as creating water vapour clouds modifies the weather."
There are NO SUCH THINGS as "water vapor clouds". There is "water vapor" and there are "clouds".

"Clouds are a vital source for weather on Earth"
NO. The Sun is. The SEA is. The ATMOSPHERE is. All three are necessary. Clouds will form as a consequence.

"without them weather would not exist"
See above.

"Ah, I never said cloud-seeding was a conspiracy."
Nor did I say you did.

"You would be wise to discontinue attributing comments to me that I have not written."
I'll do so if I ever do so.

In other words, making-up things that I have not said (i.e., lieing).
You mean "lying". Where did I do that?

I'm not being rhetorical here. Answer my questions and quit the astroturfing.
I've already pointed out your lies.

No need for me to be redundant.

Your contradictions are obvious and I have pointed them out, as well.

Again, no need for me to be redundant.

You won't get anywhere by demanding anything of me, but, just so you know, I have already answered your questions.

Again, no need for me to be redundant.

Obviously, your reading comprehension is lacking.

Last edited by BlueAngel : 03-31-2010 at 01:25 AM.
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  #193  
Old 03-31-2010, 04:18 AM
JazzRoc JazzRoc is offline
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Default Re: Contrails cannot form into clouds (proof!)

I've already pointed out your lies. Your contradictions are obvious and I have pointed them out, as well.
To astroturf the whole of my post is NOT to "point out" ANYTHING.

I have already answered your questions.
Quit the lying and answer my questions.

Obviously, your reading comprehension is lacking.
Quit the smearing too.

Answer my questions:

How are you under the impression that I know very little about this topic and the earth?

Where do I contradict myself?

Where do I lie?

Last edited by JazzRoc : 03-31-2010 at 06:00 AM.
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  #194  
Old 03-31-2010, 09:25 PM
BlueAngel BlueAngel is offline
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Default Re: Contrails cannot form into clouds (proof!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzRoc View Post
I've already pointed out your lies. Your contradictions are obvious and I have pointed them out, as well.
To astroturf the whole of my post is NOT to "point out" ANYTHING.

To astroturf the whole of your post is to point out your lies.

I have already answered your questions.
Quit the lying and answer my questions.

It is you who is the liar, as I have pointed out. I don't respond to demands; however, I've already answered your questions. Obviously, you can't read.

Obviously, your reading comprehension is lacking.
Quit the smearing too.

Your reading comprehension is lacking. That's a fact. Therefore, it is not smearing. Besides, to say that some one's reading comprehension is lacking does not qualify as a smear. It's an observation. But, calling people morons, as you have done, would be a smear.

Answer my questions:

How are you under the impression that I know very little about this topic and the earth?

You have proven this with your ramblings.

Where do I contradict myself?

For the third time, I have already pointed this out. This is why I say that your reading comprehension is lacking.

Where do I lie?

Again, for the third time, I have already pointed this out. This is why I say that your reading comprehension is lacking.
Comments inside the box.

Last edited by BlueAngel : 03-31-2010 at 11:15 PM.
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  #195  
Old 04-01-2010, 12:15 AM
BlueAngel BlueAngel is offline
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Default Re: Contrails cannot form into clouds (proof!)

Kindly explain to the forum, JazzRoc, in your opinioin, why non-passenger planes spew whatever it is they spew from the back of their planes on a clear day that begin as long white streaks, but ultimately end up fanning out into thin white, whispy clouds.

What are they spewing?

Why are they doing this?

What is the purpose?

Thanking you in advance,
BA

Last edited by BlueAngel : 04-01-2010 at 12:44 AM.
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  #196  
Old 04-01-2010, 01:51 AM
BlueAngel BlueAngel is offline
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Default Re: Contrails cannot form into clouds (proof!)

Take a chill pill, JazzRoc and call me in the morning.
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  #197  
Old 04-01-2010, 04:48 AM
JazzRoc JazzRoc is offline
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Default Re: Contrails cannot form into clouds (proof!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueAngel View Post
Kindly explain to the forum, JazzRoc, in your opinioin, why non-passenger planes spew whatever it is they spew from the back of their planes on a clear day that begin as long white streaks, but ultimately end up fanning out into thin white, whispy clouds. What are they spewing? Why are they doing this? What is the purpose? Thanking you in advance, BA
You are lying, astroturfing, and skirting my questions once again.

You are a moderator here? You behavior needs moderating by someone truly responsible.

The answer to your questions is that they are just the natural results you get when you burn kerosine in the stratosphere.

This, FOR THE THIRD TIME IN THIS THREAD, is evidenced below in the following atmospheric science research papers.

“Contrails to Cirrus—Morphology, Microphysics, and Radiative Properties”:
http://www-pm.larc.nasa.gov/sass/pub...s_JAMC2006.pdf

Its crucial findings are recalled here:



Because you are hard of thinking, I'll translate it into simple terms.

For every yard of forward flight at cruise altitude a jumbo jet may produce thirty-five pounds of trail ice. It only depends on the water vapor content of the surrounding air. This ice evaporates back into the air when it has fallen to a height of 4-5 miles. Another forty years of continual expansion of air travel may take place before there is a significant effect on the weather.

That's it. Only a moron would fail to understand this.

“Contrail Formation and Persistence”
contrail.html
“Long lasting contrails like the ones observed usually occur in parts of the sky that have preexisting patches of cirrus clouds. Since the cirrus clouds are formed of ice crystals like the contrails, cirrus clouds in a region of the sky suggests supersaturation with respect to ice and sufficient heterogeneous nuclei for ice crystals to form. GOES-8 satellite photographs taken at approximately at the same time as the contrails were present show significant cirrus clouds around the Norman area providing the condition necessary for contrail persistence.”

S J Moss (1999). The Testing and Verification of Contrail Forecasts using Pilot Observations from Aircraft. Meteorological Applications, 6 , pp 193-200
The testing and verification of contrail forecasts using pilot observations from
“Recent research has shown that old forecasting techniques may not be wholly applicable to modern aircraft that now use more efficient engines. In order to compare the performance of both the old and new forecasting techniques a validation trial was carried out over a nine-month period in which RAF pilots reported when and where contrails did and did not occur.”

Wakes of War: Contrails and the Rise of Air Power, 1918-1945 Part II—The Air War over Europe, 1939-1945
Wakes of war: contrails and the rise of air power, 1918-1945 Part IIĀ—the air war over Europe, 1939-1945 | Air Power History | Find Articles at BNET
“It is easy to see that, if the air is so cold that it cannot hold much water as vapor, the water in the exhaust may be sufficient, when added to the moisture already in the atmosphere, to raise the humidity in the turbulent wake to or beyond the saturation value. If this condition exists, some of the water vapor will condense and a visible trail will form.”

A Laboratory Study of Contrails
http://ams.allenpress.com/archive/15...9-15-2-149.pdf
“The existence of supercooled water at temperatures significantly colder than -40C is not a generally-accepted fact, but has been suspected by theorists for some time. Fig. 5 demonstrates that such supercooling of contrail condensate, whatever its purity, is possible.”

Contrail Observations over Southern and Eastern Asia in NOAA/AVHRR Data and Comparisons to Contrail Simulations in a GCM

Contrail Observations over Southern and Eastern Asia in NOAA/AVHRR Data and Comparisons to Contrail Simulations in a GCM - International Journal of Remote Sensing

“400 NOAA-14 satellite scenes from four months of the year 1998 were analysed. Both regions show sufficient air traffic to produce an observable amount of contrails. Thus we are able to measure for the first time contrail frequencies in the tropics and compare it to a nearby mid latitudinal region. The annual average of the daily mean contrail cloud coverage is 0.13% for the Thailand region and about 0.25% for the Japan region. For both regions the contrail cover is largest during spring. The daily cycle shows surprisingly high contrail coverage during night in spite of lower air traffic densities during night time.”

Proceedings of the Aircraft Research Association
http://www.greenerbydesign.org.uk/re..._Challenge.pdf
“Persistent contrails, which in time degenerate into cirrus cloud, only form in air which is saturated with respect to ice and the conditions for their formation and persistence are reasonably well understood. There’s no prospect of a technological fix for that. If you fly through an ice-saturated region in the atmosphere, you’ll produce a persistent contrail.”

EFFECTS OF AIRCRAFT WAKE DYNAMICS ON CONTRAIL DEVELOPMENT
Atmospheric Turbulence Research at WVU
CONCLUSIONS
1. Generally contrail ice in near equilibrium with ice mass proportional to contrail volume (except for the rapidly falling vortices early, and precipitation regions later).
2. Contrail volume largely determined by vortex dynamics (until ~ 4 min.) and Brunt-Vaisala oscillations (until ~ 20 min.).
3. Passive tracer, ice mass and ice number density distributions differ (strong dependence on RH ice ).
4. Heating due to adiabatic compression of falling vortex system can lead to significant ice crystal number depletion. (depending on RH ice , EI ice# , aircraft type).
5. Strong species fluctuations can have a significant impact on measured chemistry [e.g. HO2 /OH] in the aircraft wake.


JazzRoc versus “Chemtrails”

Contrail Science - Chemtrail Pseudoscience

BOTH these sites refer to the "Contrails to Cirrus" paper in their side menus, and BOTH have been offered you as links on this thread... they say "There's NONE so blind as those that don't wish to see"...

You stand out as useless. Why conduct an argument about a subject you neither read nor understand? Only a moron would do this.

Demoronize yourself, and do us all a favor.

Last edited by JazzRoc : 04-01-2010 at 07:38 AM.
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  #198  
Old 04-07-2010, 12:26 AM
BlueAngel BlueAngel is offline
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Default Re: Contrails cannot form into clouds (proof!)

JazzRoc said:

You are lying, astroturfing, and skirting my questions once again.

You are a moderator here? You behavior needs moderating by someone truly responsible.

The answer to your questions is that they are just the natural results you get when you burn kerosine in the stratosphere.

This, FOR THE THIRD TIME IN THIS THREAD, is evidenced below in the following atmospheric science research papers.

----------------------------------------------------------------

As evidenced by my comments and replies to you, I'm not lying, astroturfing or skirting your questions.

So, why are they burning kerosene in the stratosphere?

Yes. I am a moderator here. A super RESPONSIBLE moderator at that and, thus, the reason why I was APPOINTED as such.

According to you, my behavior is irresponsible because I question your logic.

Oh, yeah, that's logical.

Last edited by BlueAngel : 04-07-2010 at 12:35 AM.
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  #199  
Old 04-07-2010, 01:52 AM
BlueAngel BlueAngel is offline
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Default Re: Contrails cannot form into clouds (proof!)

I don't get Stompk.

On one hand, he's trying to be a conspiracy theorist, but on the other hand he's doing the complete opposite.

Such as stating that contrails forming into clouds is a myth.

HUH?

Try looking up into the sky on a clear day when the jets are out spraying and you'll see for yourself that it ain't a myth that contrails form into clouds.

The eye does not deceive.

However, words do and the bunch of mumbo jumbo mathematical information that many of the members here supply us with so as to attempt to confuse our critical thinking and deductive reasoning capabilities.

It's called information overload and/or brain fry.

Trust your instincts and not the BS they post.

They want you to believe that they are intellectuals in the topic at hand so they copy and paste, but cannot explain anything in their own words.

Last edited by BlueAngel : 04-07-2010 at 02:14 AM.
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  #200  
Old 04-07-2010, 01:57 AM
BlueAngel BlueAngel is offline
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Default Re: Contrails cannot form into clouds (proof!)

KennyWally said:

Do you think, that this would actually be broadcast on the mass media teevee?

you're kidding, right?

For me, I didn't need no stinking math to tell me what I could see.

But, nice job, FWIW.

They'll only recognize fellow whores, who spin an agenda, truth tellers are not welcome.

---------------------------------------------------------

Good post, Wally.

I don't need no stinkin' math to tell me what I see either.
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