I'm here because StompK said you hate me

[galexander]

Originally Posted by galexander

But is it not true that Crowley founded the original O.T.O. of which Cogburn is a member and was the O.T.O. not founded on Freemasonic lines?

And is it not true also that the Golden Dawn recruited from among the ranks of the Freemasons which must imply that the two organisations are somehow strongly analogous?

Since the three Freemasons who have identified themselves on this thread, KSigMason, TheOctavist and Cogburn, cannot answer my query in the negative, we can therefore only assume that what I have suggested is actually correct and accurate because they are quite obviously bound by oaths of secrecy.

[TheOctavist]

The OTO is a Clandestine, or pseudo-masonic body.


Reuss(the OTO is his brainchild) was dropped from the legitimate masonic rosters

His time as a legitimate, recognized Mason was short-lived.

[TheOctavist]

Originally Posted by BlueAngel

If I didn't act like a moderator, I wouldn't be a moderator.

But, I do, so, therefore I AM.

THE SUPER MODERATOR OF THIS FORUM.

How old are you again?

Forgive me if I missed it.

[KSigMason]

Sorry galexander, busy day, couldn't get on.

Originally Posted by galexander

But is it not true that Crowley founded the original O.T.O. of which Cogburn is a member and was the O.T.O. not founded on Freemasonic lines?

And is it not true also that the Golden Dawn recruited from among the ranks of the Freemasons which must imply that the two organisations are somehow strongly analogous?

As far as I have read, Crowley did not found it, but is one of the most famous members. Originally, there may have been some associations only through some men being members in both, but once Crowley took charge, the OTO was reformed. And as far as I've seen, there are not too many Masons that are also members.

As far as I understand the Golden Dawn never recruited from within Freemasonry, and from what I've seen, recruiting for a non-Masonic organization is looked down on.

[galexander]

Originally Posted by KSigMason

Sorry galexander, busy day, couldn't get on.


As far as I have read, Crowley did not found it, but is one of the most famous members. Originally, there may have been some associations only through some men being members in both, but once Crowley took charge, the OTO was reformed. And as far as I've seen, there are not too many Masons that are also members.

As far as I understand the Golden Dawn never recruited from within Freemasonry, and from what I've seen, recruiting for a non-Masonic organization is looked down on.

I accept your correction that perhaps it was not Crowley who had founded the O.T.O. but that he was simply a prominent member.

You state categorically that the O.T.O. was not masonic but check the following quotation from Wiki on the order:

In 1917, Reuss wrote a Synopsis of Degrees of O.T.O. in which the third degree was listed as "Craft of Masonry" and listed the initiations involved as "Entered Apprentice, Fellow Craft, Master Mason" and elaborated on this with "Full instruction in Craft Masonry, including the Catechism of the first three degrees, and an explanation of all the various Masonic systems." The same document shows that the fourth degree of O.T.O. is also known as the Holy Royal Arch of Enoch. It was summarized by Reuss as the Degree of "Scotch Masonry," equivalent to "Scotch Mason, Knight of St. Andrew, Royal Arch," and he described it as "Full instruction in the Scottish degrees of Ancient and Accepted Masonry."

What you are basically saying is because the O.T.O. are not recognised by the Grand Lodge they ARE NOT Freemasons by definition even though they themselves would perhaps look at themselves that way.

However I believe you are wrong when you state that the Golden Dawn did not actively recruit from among the ranks of the Freemasons. My source on this one is "Revelations of the Golden Dawn" by G A Gilbert which I read not that long ago.

[galexander]

I am going to state again that being absolutely honest I think the whole Freemasonry thing is just a gimmick.

It has clothed itself in layers of formulas and secrecy just to entice the gullible.

What sane, level headed individual would want to become a member of an organisation where its most prominent member was a heroin addict who openly confessed to being a devotee of the demon Belial?

[KSigMason]

Originally Posted by galexander

What sane, level headed individual would want to become a member of an organisation where its most prominent member was a heroin addict who openly confessed to being a devotee of the demon Belial?

Who is this prominent member?

[monk]

The Cause of much terrorist action of our period is due to contracts that we have never been able to make work, that goes back to 1920.

Please scroll down link provided and click on blue arrow by the side of year 1922. This gives documements relating to months, being 12, 8, 7, and 6, please click on blue arrow 12.

This will lead to two documents, please click on "Mandate for Palestine-Report of the Mandatory to LoN-UK REPORT"

Sir Herbert Samuel took his oath of office on 11th September.

http://domino.un.org/unispal.nsf/vDa...=270&Expansion

[galexander]

Originally Posted by KSigMason

Who is this prominent member?

I would have thought it was fairly apparent that this prominent member was Aleister Crowley.

However I would have to add that within the Golden Dawn it wasn't just Crowley who appears to have somewhat left the rails of general sanity and respectability.

One of the later heads of the Golden Dawn, Samuel Liddell MacGregor Mathers, made a slight error of judgement in translating a notorious medieval grimoire known as "The Lesser Key of Solomon".

This grimoire is basically a manual on how to summon demons.

It also dates from a period when people were still being hung or burnt for the possession of such literture.

Reproductions of Crowley's own sketches of the demons as they appeared before him are also included within the work.

Copies of the book are available at Amazon:

However I would warn you, search inside the book at your own risk!

Amazon.com: The Goetia: The Lesser Key of Solomon...

[monk]

Another Document to look at is this:-

ei: The Sharm el-Sheikh Memorandum (4 September 1999)

Please scroll down to bottom, signed on 4th Sept 1999, but came into effect one week later on 11th September 1999.

I know the big deal as to why 11th September has been used so much, but does Cogburn and KSigMason?

Obviously i don't need to put in a link to the Pentagons Groundbreaking ceremony?