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  #71  
Old 09-19-2011, 12:54 PM
th3kid th3kid is offline
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Default Re: What is TIME exactly?


yes i did get the first email i have symphathy for engie who is still skeptical on 9/11 oh well he is walking on eggshells not listening to us.
yours trufawlly the kid. "the primary manifestation of time is change" Ian moone.

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  #72  
Old 09-19-2011, 01:50 PM
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EireEngineer EireEngineer is offline
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Default Re: What is TIME exactly?

I have never accepted the argument from symetry. Not everything has to have an exact opposite. Darkness is simply an absense of light just in the same way an empty room is an absence of furniture. Light has demonstrable interactions with matter where darkness does not. This is why I disagree with the dark sucker idea.
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  #73  
Old 09-19-2011, 08:21 PM
th3kid th3kid is offline
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Post Re: What is TIME exactly?

i strongly recomend the movie v for vendetta it will do you good youd b surprised at how much you can learn from movies and books and a lot of candadian stereo types arnt true we live lives quite similar to americans the only real difference is that americans are stronger and fight for freedom wether canadians just have the americans fighting for there freedom and we canadians arnt good fighters but were really good at sitting around a camp fire singing kum bai ah anyway movies i recomend to people they usually love so take my word

yours trufawlly the kid
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  #74  
Old 09-19-2011, 08:25 PM
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Default Re: What is TIME exactly?

Seen it and love the dialog. It was a great graphic novel too. Why did you ask me about 1984 earlier? I have two recommendations as well. "Brave New World" by Aldous Huxley and "Guns, Germs, and Steel" by Jared Diamond.
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Old 09-19-2011, 08:28 PM
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Default Re: What is TIME exactly?

By the way, if you dont think Canadians are good fighters you should really read about the Canadians involvement in WW2. They were badasses.
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  #76  
Old 09-20-2011, 01:01 PM
th3kid th3kid is offline
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Lightbulb Re: What is TIME exactly?

i tried reading brave new world when i was young but i didnt understand it but i think im old enough now so i will check my school library i will also check for the other one you said but i only read one book at a time unlike my mother who has like 10 books on the go. and i also found the graphic novel to be better than the movie which doesnt really happen .usually i like the movie version of a book or graphic novel better but in the case not so much.
anyone else upset of the fact that the movie watchmen didnt have a giant alien squid like it was supposed to in the graphic novel
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  #77  
Old 10-08-2011, 12:04 PM
Ian Moone Ian Moone is offline
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Default Re: What is TIME exactly?

Back on Topic for a change!

Here it is again!

Ok so here it is,

Einsteins 21 equation proof for special relativity.



Diagram One above is a schematic of the M-M test. It was conducted on the basis that if an ether existed, the earth would be moving "through" it. Hence there would be a relative velocity between earth and the fluid of space.

It was reasoned that by splitting a beam of light (F) into two parts; sending one out and back in line with the direction of the earth's orbital path, (to mirror A) from Half silvered mirror (G) and glass plate (D); and recombining the two beams in the interferometer (E) one should be able to detect a shift in the phases of the two beams relative to one another.

This shift could accurately be predicted by knowing the velocity of light (c)
And the velocity (Ve) of Earth through orbital space. Their reasoning was as follows (refer diag. 1, diag. 2a, daig, 2b):

Assuming:

c2 = a2 + b2C = velocity of light = velocity from G to B by fixed extra-terrestrial observer
S = distance GA = GB
T1 = go-return time in-line (GA - AG)
T2 = go return time at right angles (GB-BG)
T = .5 t T2
V1= apparent velocity from g to B by earth observer.

Then the time (T1) is determined by:[s/(c-ve)] + [s/(c+ve))] = t1 which reduces to:

(Eq.1) 2sc/(c2 - ve2) = t1

Also, the time (t2) is determined by first solving for (v1) in terms of ( c ) and (Ve) using the Pythagorean Theorem (c2 = a2 + b2)…. Or, in this instance: (G to B)2 = (G to M)2 + (M to B)2

By substitution, c2 = ve2 + v12

Hence:

(Eq.2) v1= (c2 - ve2).5

Now, solving for the time (t) - which is the same over GM, GB, MB - of the GB trip by substituting s/t = v1 in (Eq.2) , one obtains:

(Eq.3) s/t = (c2 - ve2).5

rearranging:

(Eq.3) t = s/(c2 - ve2).5

Substituting: t = .5t2

Gives: t2/2=s/(c2 - ve2).5

Or:

(Eq.4) t2= 2s /(c2 - ve2).5

by comparing the ratio of the in-line go-return time (t1) to the right angle go-return time (t2) one obtains:

(Eq.5) t1/t2 =[2sc / (c2 - ve2).5 / 2s

which reduces to:

(Eq. 5.) t1/t2 = (1- ve2 / c2 ) - .5

Now then, if the light source is at rest with respect to the other, one sees:

(Eq 6.) ve = 0

Hence:

(Eq 7.) t1/t2 = 1/ (1 -0).5 = 1/1 = 1

Such a ratio as (Eq. 7) shows is exactly what each successive try of the linear M - M test has obtained…. (notice: Linear not angular!). Lorentz and Fitzgerald knew there had to be an ether; so they developed their well known transforms - an act which was in essence a way of saying, there has to be an ether…we'll adjust our observed results by a factor which will bring our hypothetical expectations and our test results into accord….
Their whole transform was based on the existence of ether space! Their transform, in essence said that length shortened, mass flattened, and time dilated as a body moved through the ether.

Einstein came along in 1905 saying the Mitchellson Morley test showed the velocity of light to be a universal constant to the observer. Seizing upon this and the Lorentz-Fitzgerald transforms, Einstein was able to formulate his Special Relativity which resulted in the now famous E = Mc2 …the derivation of which follows:

Starting with (Eq.5) t1/t2 = (1- ve2 / c2 ) - .5

The Lorentz-Fitzgerald transform factor for (Eq.5) becomes (1- ve2 / c2 ) - .5
(to bring t2= t1) giving t1/t2 an observed value of (1).

Assuming Lorentz and Fitzgerald's supposition to be correct one should look at mass-in-motion as the observer on the mass see's it versus mass-in-motion as the universal observer sees it,…

Let m1 = mass as it appears to the riding observer
Let v1 = velocity as detected by rider
Let m2 = mass as universal observer sees it
Let v2 = velocity as universal observer sees it
Then it follows (from Lorentz and Fitzgerald) that:

(Eq. 9) m1 v1 not = m2 v2

So - to equate the two products. Lorentz and Fitzgerald devised their transform factor (1- ve2 / c2 ) - .5 which would bring m1 v1 = m2 v2 to either observer,… yielding the following extension

(Eq. 10) m1s1/t1 Not = m2s2/t1

or,…

(Eq. 10) m1s1 Not = m2s2

then, by substitution of the transform factor s2 = s1(1- ve2 / c2 ) - .5(assuming time is reference) into (Eq. 10.) one obtains: m1s1 = m2s1(1- ve2 / c2 ) - .5
which reduces to:
(Eq. 11) m1 = m2 (1- ve2 / c2 ) - .5

To re evaluate this relative change in mass, one should investigate the expanded form of the transform factor (1- ve2 / c2 ) - .5 (which transforms t1=t2) It is of the general binomial type:

(Eq. 12) (1- b) -a

Hence it can be expressed as the sum of an infinite series:

(Eq. 13) 1 + ab = a(a+1)b2 /2! + a(a+1)(a+2)b3/3! + …etc

where b2 is less than 1

So - setting a = .5 and b = ve2 / c2

One obtains:

(Eq. 14) 1 + (ve2 / 2c2) + (3v4/8c4) + (5v6/16c6) + etc…

For low velocities in the order of .25c and less than the evaluation of (1- ve2 / c2 ) - .5
Is closely approximated by, the first two elements of (Eq. 14):

(Eq. 15) (1- ve2 / c2 ) - .5= 1+ve2 /2c2

so (Eq. 11) becomes:

(Eq. 16.) m2= m1(1+ ve2 / c2)…where ve less than .25c

developing further,… m2= m1 + m1 ve2 /2c2

(Eq. 17) m2 - m1 = .5 m1 ve2 /2c2

remembering energy (E) is represented by:

(Eq. 18) E = .5mv2…( where ve less than .25c)

One can substitute (Eq. 18) into (Eq. 17) giving…

(Eq. 19) m2 - m1 = E/c2…(assuming ve = v)

Representing the change in mass (m2 - m1) by M gives:

(Eq. 20) M = E/ c2

Or, in the more familiar form using the general (m) for (M):

(Eq. 21) E = m c2

(Note, however, that (Eq. 14) should be used for the greatest accuracy - especially where ve is greater than .25c)


Next we have Einsteins Fine Structure Constant Alpha.

Alpha = E^2/hc

where

The amount of time dilation or gravitational red-shifting of the electron in its ground state compared to the masses of the electron and proton are defined by the universally measured constant called "alpha."

The relationship between the "virtual" and "actual" velocity, meaning distance to time, of the electron is "c."

The relationship of mass/energy to time, meaning gravity, is hidden within Planck's Constant "h."

The relationship of electrical charge "e" to time and gravity is found in the "alpha" definition.

Attempting to produce a complete system of universal science based only on the triumvirate of "measured constants" e, c, and h, has proven to be insufficient and incomplete.

It turns out that a minimum of four constants are needed to define all the properties of time and space.

So

Starting at Equation 5 where velocity of light C^ 2 is introduced

(Eq.5) t1/t2 = (1- ve2 / c2 ) - .5

and

Substituting Alpha for C

We get

(Eq 5) t1/t2 = (1-ve2/Alpha^2) - .5

Fleshing out Alpha squared

we get

(Eq 6) t1/t2 = (1-ve2/
E^2/hc x E^2/hc) - .5

Resolve from here.

Cheers!
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  #78  
Old 12-03-2011, 12:23 PM
Ian Moone Ian Moone is offline
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Default Re: What is TIME exactly?

After some months with zero reply - it would seem that maybe the math is a little too tough?

Ohh - well maybe mankinds not yet ready for the grand unification theorem - unifying gravity with special relativity, and having the theory of everything!

Maybe when mankind is ready some bright spark will do the requisite math.

I believe this will happen in 2012 - likely some time around 21 Dec in fact and from that point forth mankind shall be as time lords, immortal.

Just more proof that you cannot push the river, nor hasten the harvest by tugging on the shoots at night.

In time to come - (infinitime) which begins AD 21 Dec 2012 (as all good time travelers know) there will be no limits...

Sadly, its now time that I go forward - back to whence I came - before Armageddon should overtake me. This experiment is ample proof, that the space time thought continuum cannot be warped.

The kettle boils - when the water molecules are ready (have sufficient energy) to change form.

Humanity is not yet ready to change form.

It would be nice to prevent Armageddon and jump straight to warp speed and spare mankind the suffering of Armageddon - but the grand architect of the universe' will be done - here on earth, as it is in heaven.

Shalom & farewell.
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M = Δ T
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  #79  
Old 12-23-2011, 07:05 PM
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EireEngineer EireEngineer is offline
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Default Re: What is TIME exactly?

Sorry, bought a new computer and lost my password. Plus the lab is keeping me busy these days.
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  #80  
Old 01-07-2012, 11:27 AM
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Tiresias Tiresias is offline
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Default Re: What is TIME exactly?

Hello Ian, have been reading your and EireEngineer's discussion and find it both interesting and enjoyable. I have a couple of comments concerning, 1. your reference to the Great year of 26000 years. This is is the apparent movement of the sun through the background of stars organized as constellations. The ones that the sun passes through are called the zodiac and this is due to the slow wobble of the earth over that 26000 years.
I believe that suns path around the galaxy is considerably longer. The sun is located about 30,000 light years from the center of the Milky Way. So the diameter of the orbit is 60,000 years, which means the distance traveled for one orbit is about 188,400 light years. From what I remember, the sun's motion about the galactic center is at about 120,000 mph. I haven't done the math, but I believe a full revolution takes about 2.5 million years. However, I do not believe that this will affect the theoretical results you reached.

The second comment is about concept of the MEG. You proposed a battery connected pole to pole, with a switch inserted. The electrical flow will be from positive to negative, and here I have to agree with EireEngineer, when the switch closes the circuit, the potential will rise at the positive pole moving an electron into the conductor. This will start the electron flow. As the conductor is already full of atoms with electrons, when the first electron enters the conductor they all bump at once and an electron exits the conductor at the negative pole. It's like small pipe full of ball bearings, if you push one in, one will exit at the same time. They all bump at once. As to the rest of the theory I cant say.

What I am interested in is monetary systems and banking and how the elite have been using them for years to extract wealth from the people.
I haven't seen these topics on this site, so when I figure where to start the discussion please reply with your thoughts on the issue.
Thanks for letting bend your ear.
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