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Old 11-18-2005, 02:02 AM
Draken Draken is offline
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Default Re: Zündel SHOW Trial, Mannheim 2005

<a href="http://www.zundelsite.org/zundel_persecuted/nov16-05.html">MISTRIAL DECLARED IN CASE OF ERNST ZUNDEL</a>

NOVEMBER 15, 2005. In what appears to be something out of a surreal dream, the German trial of Ernst Zundel has been temporarily ended because all his lawyers could not get one of their many motions accepted by the court judge.

I guess there is a German rule that says: defense lawyers have to produce a semblance of competence by making at least one motion stand up. I don't really know. Anyway, Zundel has a new lawyer, and the trial may re-open in February.

The charge? Denial of the Holocaust. Or something like that. In Canada, during his three trials, Zundel was charged with threatening national security. Threatening how? By denying the accepted story, in certain respects, of the Holocaust.

After perusing a number of articles about Zundel on the rense.com site, I presume that Zundel is a very unpopular man because he is stating that the Nazi extermination of Jews during WW2 has been grossly exaggerated, in terms of actual numbers of Jews killed.

So far, I find no evidence that Zundel has committed a crime against any person or piece of property, in the usual sense of crime. Nor do I find any direct inciting to violence on the part of Zundel.

In other words, he is being held in prison (as he was in Canada) because he expresses certain thoughts.

Of course, in several European countries, Holocaust denial is itself a crime.

There are a couple of issues here. One is, can your words be taken by other people as reason for THEM to commit a violent crime? As far as I'm concerned, there are nutcases and morons running around from the Arctic Circle to Tierra Del Fuego who will, on the slightest provocation, steal property and commit assault.

One only has to look at the laws in the US to see that indirect participation in a "crime" is a growing trend. For example, a person can be found innocent of robbery but found guilty of conspiracy to commit robbery.

"We talked about it, we planned it, but then we got cold feet."

"Who cares? Guilty of conspiracy. This court is adjourned."

Note that Zundel is not being charged with conspiracy. I'm merely pointing out that INDIRECT labels can be extended in all sorts of directions.

In fact, as political correctness spreads like ink on a blotter all over the planet, people are warned that the slightest off-center remark might damage another person within hearing distance for life.

Then comes the issue of Zundel's accuracy in his written and spoken comments about the Holocaust. Is he right? Is he wrong? Is he really trying to deceive? Is he saying what he says because, in his heart, he is a racist or an anti-Semite?

The circular argument goes this way: since Zundel obviously knows what he is saying is false, he must have another strategy; he must be trying to float a lie for an ulterior motive.

Well, if it is now the law to make an examination of someone's heart and soul in judging criminal innocence or guilt, we can hang it up and move to another planet.

By any rational standard, who the hell cares what Zundel is saying, in so far as his innocence or guilt is concerned? He's saying it. He has the right to say it. He can say it from now until the cows come home.

In my experience, it is the incredibly shallow and inexperienced and desperate people who try to divine other citizens' ulterior motives at the drop of a hat and pin all sorts of labels on them, over and over.

I'm reminded of the many painstaking domeheads, back in the day, who would take the work of a famous artist and apply their own version of psychoanalytic theory to his work and, in the process, try to reduce that artist to ashes.

Now, it may be that Zundel has actually done things I don't know about. So far, I haven't found anything that really surprises me. I'm willing to be shown---but as far as I can tell, the man is being prosecuted for stating what he believes to be facts.

It also appears that his defense team in Germany is not permitted to offer evidence that Zundel's version of the Holocaust is accurate.

"You're being prosecuted for saying X. And we will not allow proof that X is true. The crime is saying X. Shut up."

Here I'm reminded of US trials in which federal prosecutors try to ramrod a defendant who has sold medicines not approved by the FDA. In court, when the defendant's lawyers move to introduce evidence that the medicine in question actually cures disease, the judge refuses to allow such presentation.

"We're not here to determine whether the defendant is a hero in healing people. We only want to know whether he sold a substance to treat a disease, and whether the FDA has approved this substance. If the FDA has not certified it as safe and effective, the defendant is guilty as hell."

It also reminds me of US Supreme Court Justice Scalia's famous remark: the revelation of new exculpatory evidence is not sufficient to warrant a re-trial for a person who is currently serving time in prison for having committed a crime. New trials are only granted when it's shown that the previous trial was, procedurally speaking, deeply flawed. In other words, who cares whether the convicted person is really guilty?

Do Zundel's statements about the Holocaust offend many people? Of course. Is that a crime? No. Does the principle of free speech exceed the fact that people are offended? Yes.

What about 9/11? What about the justification for waging war in Vietnam and Iraq? What about claiming that AIDS is not a contagious germ-driven disease? What about people who claim that FDR knew the Japanese were going to attack Pearl Harbor and let it happen? What about people who say Bill Clinton sold out America by letting military-tech secrets flow from here to China, in exchange for a few dollars placed in his re-election campaign fund? What about people who say we never went to the moon? What about people who say that George Bush has the intellect of a chimp?

In these and hundreds of other situations, it is quite possible to make statements that will offend others deeply. Shall we put a censor to work scrubbing all these statements out of existence? Shall we hold show trials and put people in jail?

On the road to freedom, we say that potential victims of others' speech are going to have to suck it up and get past all that. It may not be nice, but that's the way things work. On the road to tyranny, we say that anything you might say that will cause a person emotional distress is illegal and you will be punished severely for it, by the legal system, backed up by official guns and official prison bars.

I know which way I'm going. If Zundel has done nothing other than revise, downward, accepted estimates of the Holocaust, if he has done nothing other than claim he knows who is protecting the official scenario, then let him out of jail. Let him go and let him live his life. Stop trying to put him on trial.

What about people who claim there was tremendous black African participation in selling fellow Africans to the American slavemasters, who then brought those slaves to this country? That picture contradicts the official scenario. Why aren't those Holocaust deniers being arrested and tried and placed in prisons?

And by the way, wasn't there a US court case about a year ago in which---to the consternation of many---it was ruled that a media news outlet (FOX) could lie with impunity? Could escape even a judgment in a civil suit?

So even if Zundel is intentionally lying through his teeth, so what? Does he have fewer rights than FOX or CNN?

See, at the end of the day, accuracy and truth don't matter at all, when it comes to speech. Now if you tell a number of lies aimed at a particular and specific person or group, with the idea of injuring their reputations, then that is actionable in a suit. But Zundel is not being sued. If he were, he could introduce evidence to support his statements as being true. He is being tried on criminal charges by the German State, and if he is found guilty, he can be sentenced to a jail term. It's a whole different animal.

JON RAPPOPORT www.nomorefakenews.com

Three things are sacred to me: first Truth, and then, in its tracks, primordial prayer; Then virtue–nobility of soul which, in God walks on the path of beauty. Frithjof Schuon
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Old 11-18-2005, 03:01 AM
Draken Draken is offline
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Default Re: Zündel SHOW Trial, Mannheim 2005

<a href="http://www.zundelsite.org/zundel_persecuted/nov15-05-law-student.html">Law Student in England: "Zundel Trial In Germany -- A Farce!"</a>

November 15, 2005

1 It seems relevant to start by mentioning two fundamental maxims of justice: Nemo iudex in causa sua ('no man should be judge in his own cause') & audi alteram partem ('hear the other side', ie that both sides should be given a fair hearing). It seems to me that the judge is biased. He is not willing to hear what the defence has to say. Instead he wants to 'shut them up'. And he clearly considers the Prosecution's cause as his own. He thus has a 'stake' in the trial, an interest in Ernst Zundel being found guilty.

He is therefore inherently biased.

By Art 6 of the European Convention on Human Rights & Fundamental Freedoms every person has a right to a fair trial. The Federal Republic of Germany is a signatory to the Convention and is therefore obliged to abide by it.

Art 6 states that:

ARTICLE 6 1 In the determination of [...] any criminal charge against him, everyone is entitled to a fair and public hearing within a reasonable time by an independent and impartial tribunal established by law. Judgement shall be pronounced publicly by the press and public may be excluded from all or part of the trial in the interest of morals, public order or national security in a democratic society, where the interests of juveniles or the protection of the private life of the parties so require, or the extent strictly necessary in the opinion of the court in special circumstances where publicity would prejudice the interests of justice.

2 Everyone charged with a criminal offence shall be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law.

3 Everyone charged with a criminal offence has the following minimum rights: [...] ? (c) to defend himself in person or through legal assistance of his own choosing [...]; ? (d) to examine or have examined witnesses against him and to obtain the attendance and examination of witnesses on his behalf under the same conditions as witnesses against him;

I have underlined the relevant phrases. The right to a fair trial in section 1 of Art 6 is an 'absolute right', meaning that no matter what the circumstances everyone has a right to a fair trial (whereas s. 3 is a 'relative right', meaning that it may be limited if it be legitimate to do so in the circumstances). It has been stated above that the judge in the Zundel case is biased in the sense that the court was not an 'independent and impartial tribunal'. It is further submitted that the result of this would be that Zundel would not get a 'fair and public hearing' within Art 6(1). The court is therefore in breach of its obligations under Art 6(1). I suspect that Mr. Zundel's legal team would appeal to the European Court of Human Rights in Strasburg if all else fails. Moreover, it is noted that by Art 6(3)(c) Herr Zundel has a right to choose his own legal team. This is not within the jurisdiction of the German court. This is also true in relation to leading counsel's assistant. The court is therefore ultra vires (beyond its powers) and its ruling on the matter is null and void. I suspect that also in this regard Ernst Zundel's legal team will seek to appeal to the higher courts, and, failing this, to the Court in Strasburg.

4 On a different note, there is a problem if Ernst Zundel's defence would be in breach of §130 of the Penal Code by defending their client to the best of their ability because advocates are obliged by their professional codes to defend their clients fearlessly and to the best of their ability. More importantly, if certain kinds of evidence cannot be admitted in court due to a general prohibition against displaying such material in public, how can the accused have a fair trial?

5 Judges are not, it is submitted, competent to rule on what is historical fact. If the judge in question wished to establish an historical fact (whatever that is) the proper way to go about it, in my opinion, would have been to call expert evidence. I say in my opinion, but I do think that any person with sound judgment would adopt the same opinion on this matter. This attitude of the judge also reveals his prejudice against the defence.

6 I can think of no good reason why Ernst Zundel should be kept in custody while an important question of law is being decided in the Constitutional Court. The case will surely take a very long time, perhaps more than a year. The court would need to have very good reasons to justify keeping an accused person (cf. Art 6(2), above: everyone is innocent until proven guilty) in custody for a substantial length of time. For example, the court would have to hear evidence that Mr. Zundel is very likely to flee Germany. Not just that he might, but that he is very likely to. However, it seems to me that the Regional Court decided the matter simply on a whim. This, again, is contrary to the Convention (see Art 5).

7 In conclusion, I would say that the trial of Ernst Zundel is an absolute outrage. Whether one sympathizes with his views or not, it is most unsatisfactory that a person is denied his right to a fair trial because of his beliefs. If this is truly the state of affairs in Germany, then hypocrisy and, indeed, tyranny must have gained the upper hand in that so-called democratic republic. I am absolutely outraged about this. Next time a German politician speaks of democracy and human rights, please ask him to ditch the rhetoric and, ahem, shove it up his a**.

Yours sincerely,

Patrick Boch,

Student of Law,

Three things are sacred to me: first Truth, and then, in its tracks, primordial prayer; Then virtue–nobility of soul which, in God walks on the path of beauty. Frithjof Schuon
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Old 11-18-2005, 11:34 AM
Draken Draken is offline
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Default Re: Zündel SHOW Trial, Mannheim 2005

Bush Adminstration Press Release on Germar Rudolf

Dedicated to Freedom of the Press, Investigative Reporting and Revisionist History

Subscribe: HoffmanWire-subscribe@topica.com

Michael A. Hoffman II, Editor

EDITOR's NOTE: Here is official US government crowing over the
deportation of former Max Planck chemist Germar Rudolf back to Germany
to be jailed for his scientific findings. In fact, he was escorted in
Germany by US agents.The tenor of this report shows full support for
Germany's suppression of Rudolf's rights of free of speech and press and
puts the word scientific in quotes when referring to Rudolf's chemical
research. Once again, "your" US government is keelhauling a heroic
carrier of civilization back into the waiting arms of the beast. Heads
up to Muslims: this is the sort of "democracy" Bush has in store for
your country: one nation under Judaism. Remember the name of Germar
Rudolf the next time Bush lectures you on freedom, and invoke his name
at US-staged public forums in the Middle East at every opportunity.

November 15, 2005
Three things are sacred to me: first Truth, and then, in its tracks, primordial prayer; Then virtue–nobility of soul which, in God walks on the path of beauty. Frithjof Schuon
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Old 11-18-2005, 02:15 PM
Draken Draken is offline
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Default Re: Zündel SHOW Trial, Mannheim 2005

The Times November 15, 2005

<a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13509-1872400,00.html">Menuhin's son forced to resign over 'anti-Semitic' interviews</a>

From Roger Boyes in Berlin

THE son of the violinist and humanist Yehudi Menuhin has been ousted as head of the German branch of his father’s foundation because of his extreme right-wing views.

Gerard Menuhin, 57, caused uproar by suggesting that Germany was being blackmailed by an international Jewish conspiracy preying on the country’s war guilt. He was forced to resign as chairman of the Yehudi Menuhin Foundation (YMF) in Germany, which was established to encourage the musical talent of young immigrants.

“It was a logical and comprehensible decision in this re-educated land,” Mr Menuhin, an Old Etonion who lives in Switzerland and Britain, said. “But I’m not going to change my opinions because of it.”

Mr Menuhin is one of two sons of the violinist with his second wife, the British dancer Diana Rosamond Gould, and he has taken over a number of family responsibilities. Apart from his chairmanship of the YMF in Dusseldorf, he sits on the board of the Menuhin Festival in Gstaad.

Until now his political views have barely registered with the outside world even though he has a regular column in the Munich-based ultra-nationalist National Zeitung. One of his more vitriolic columns condemned Jewish “souvenir hunters” who gather evidence in Germany to help them to lodge financial claims for wartime persecution.[Question is, is it true?/Draken]

“Apart from a few curious comments about America, we weren’t really aware of his politics,” Winfried Kneip, YMF’s chief executive, said.

Mr Menuhin outed himself as a clear sympathiser with the neo-Nazi cause in two published interviews this month. In Deutsche Stimme, voice of the National Party of Germany, he used classical anti-Semitic language while still staying within the boundaries of German law.

“An international lobby of influential people and organisations is trying to keep the Germans under pressure,” he said. “Some nations — mainly America, but other Europeans, too — are profiting from an obedient Germany.”

It was unfair, he said, that Germany should continue to be punished for its Nazi past. “The main tool of this endless blackmail was supplied by the Germans themselves, although the tainted period of 12 years really was only 12 years in over 2,000 years of immaculate development.”

The Menuhin family is descended from Russian Jews, and Baron Menuhin of Stoke d’Abernon, who became a life peer in 1993, was regarded as a great humanist who worked to bring communities together. Hence the shock that his son should let himself be fêted by German parties that stir up sentiment against foreigners and often glorify the Nazis.["Shocking, isn't it, to refuse to swallow the Communist propaganda?/Draken]

In an interview with the National Zeitung, organ of the German Peoples’ Union, Mr Menuhin called on Germans to stop paying taxes and thus protest at the outflow of German funds to the European Union.[Brilliant idea! All of Europe should do the same!/Draken]

“People cannot be eternally exploited in this way,” he said, “as long as there is a budget deficit, no German public money should flow abroad.”

Mr Menuhin, who describes himself as a film producer and writer, is something of a maverick within the family. “He was the least musically gifted,” a family friend said, “and he suffered from that emotionally.”[Yeah, yeah, we get it. The only weapon there is left, short of arrest, is a simple ad hominem./Draken]

There has, in fact, been a history of family sympathy for German nationalists. Mr Menuhin’s grandfather, Moshe, was a determined anti-Zionist and expounded his views in the National Zeitung; he was arts editor from 1968 to 1970 although he was aware of its extreme German nationalism. He left the job only because the paper was not anti-Zionist enough.[My GOD, really?! Sympathy? How horrible!]

Lord Menuhin earned applause from German Nationalists when he played with the conductor Wilhelm Furtwängler[One of the most brilliant conductors ever./Draken], who had been a Nazi supporter. But Lord Menuhin’s point was to demonstrate that music can heal wounds. German nationalists, however, regarded the gesture as being something more, a sign of understanding for those who believed in national socialism.

That, and the dedication of some concerts to the plight of German refugees from the East, gave the Menuhin family some standing among German rightwingers. Although Lord Menuhin had humanitarian motives, Gerard appears to have interpreted his father’s gestures as a family blessing for his nationalist opinions.

The Yehudi Menuhin Foundation in Germany was set up by the violinist shortly before his death in Berlin in 1999. Its brief is “to use art to teach peaceful coexistence to children in social crisis areas with high immigrant populations”.


On a Jewish conspiracy:
“An international lobby of influential people and organisations is trying to keep the Germans under pressure . . .”

“Some nations — mainly America, but Europeans too — are profiting from an obedient Germany . . . Those claiming to speak in the name of (Holocaust) victims have better networks than those representing other groups of survivors. Just think of the survivors of murdered Cambodians, American Indians or the Armenians. I am not the only Jew who thinks in this way . . .”

On the need for a greater role for the far Right:
“The radical parties have to speak a clear language, offer alternatives, especially now that the parties of the centre are virtually indistinguishable and lack courage or solutions . . .”

On the EU:
“The European Union has swollen to gigantic proportions — a monster that is swallowing vast sums, most of which are paid for by Germany”


Read this <a href="http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/print.asp?ID=2018">short open letter from one Jew to another</a>.

One Jew to Another
R. D. Polacco de Menasce France 6-27-4

My Dear Sir,

I do think that no Jew will ever dare to tell you the truth.

I am probably the only Jew left who can tell it to you.

I have learnt that you are still chasing very old persons who had responsibilities in the Nazi regime. Sixty years after! People who are eighty-five years old! How shameful!

Do you know one ethnicity who did such a thing in the course of the History of Mankind? You are the very symbol of Talmudic hysterical neverending hatred.

This is the more egregious as the Nazi regime gave work, sane economy and balance to a whole country, whereas today, everything (when I mention everything, I mean absolutely all) is both Jewish and entirely rotten.

Jewish Capitalism has collapsed the world into all forms of pollutions. Jewish Marxism has slaughtered 200,000,000 people.[I'm revising my figures - 200.000.000. That's 200 million./Draken]

To crown it all, everybody knows that there were not 6,000,000 Jews (a country the size of Switzerland) in occupied Europe in 1941 (The American Jewish Year book, mentions 3,300,000 Jews and from that date (1941) on, we all fled to the Free Zone or to Spain towards England). And it is only one million Jews whom Hitler wanted to exchange for trucks at the period of the so-called Shoah. Besides we know that Zyklon B cannot gas 1000 or 2000 people at one time (see M.Roubeix, chief executive of the factory of Saint Avold producing cyanide acid) in gas chambers which have strictly never found norms.

I suppose you would rather have a Jewish USA government enshrined in Jewish finance, pinching petrol in Iraq, spreading Jewish one-worldism, Jewish pornography, Jewish press, Jewish puppets in all governments, than the cleanness of the Nazi regime which made a miracle out of the Jewish rot of the Versailles treaty - the negotiators of which were the Warburg brothers, and that of the Weimar Republic.

You are 95 years of age: if you are not insane what will you tell the Lord when you soon appear if front of Him?

I do wonder.

Entirely disgusted,

R. D. Polacco de Menasce
(Docteur de l'universite de Paris These de morpho-psycho-endocrinologie - Ret.)

Comment: Last week this fraudulent Nazi hunter Simon Wiesenthal was given an honorary knighthood. Under oath and in books he has contradicted himself and spread vile falsehoods about alleged German atrocities. However he at times told the truth, as in 1975 and again in 1993 when he publicly acknowledged "there were no extermination camps on German soil" (S. Wiesenthal, Sails of Hope), thereby conceding the claims made at the Nuremberg Tribunal and elsewhere that Buchenwald, Dachau and other camps in Germany proper were "extermination camps" are untrue.

Also see: Simon Wiesenthal: Fraudulent Nazi Hunter
Three things are sacred to me: first Truth, and then, in its tracks, primordial prayer; Then virtue–nobility of soul which, in God walks on the path of beauty. Frithjof Schuon
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Old 11-18-2005, 02:30 PM
Barbara Barbara is offline
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Default Re: Zündel SHOW Trial, Mannheim 2005

My dear Draken, knowing what you do about our situation with illegal aliens here in the United States, were you careful not to fall off your chair laughing when you read this?


“ICE is focused on protecting America and promoting public safety by ensuring that fugitive aliens are removed from the United States as expeditiously as possible,” said Deborah Achim, field officer director for Chicago’s detention and removal program. “We are restoring integrity to the immigration system by finding and removing individuals ordered deported by federal immigration judges.”


We can count our blessings on the below paragraph; it names his book and gives a short synopsis of it's contents. Notice, too, the numbers are down to "deaths of thousands of jews," The "millions" figure is being abandoned like the smelly stuff it is.


Rudolf, a former chemist from Stuttgart and author of “Dissecting the Holocaust,” was sentenced by the German government to 14 months in prison for publishing a “scientific” report refuting the deaths of thousands of Jews in the gas chambers at Auschwitz. Rudolf tested bricks in the gas chambers for traces of Zyklon B, deadly cyanide used to kill Jews during the Holocaust. His report claimed that because he did not find evidence of Zyklon B on the sampled bricks it was unlikely that the mass gassings of Jews occurred at Auschwitz.


I have serious doubts about any notice being sent to Rudolf, like none was sent to Zundel. That is a very handy excuse that they have used to absurdity, as in the Randy Weaver case and others. Had he ever been sent such a notice, he would not have walked into the Chicago office of U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services. He would have avoided them like the plague.

Being an honest man, he wanted to do things the proper and legal way. They use our very nature against us.


Rudolf was ordered to present himself to the Chicago ICE office for deportation April 7, but he defied the order and remained in the U.S. as a fugitive alien. On Oct. 19 he appeared at the Chicago office of U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services to apply for a green card based on his marriage to a U.S. citizen. A records check revealed his outstanding order of deportation and he was immediately taken into federal custody.


My best suggestion to ICE to earn their pay would be to take fleets of buses with armed guards and shackles and go through every major city and town in the whole of the United States, rounding up the millions of illegal aliens that can be easily found there.

For the money spent deporting Rudolf, we could be free of at least a million third world illegal aliens.

Neither you nor I, my friend, will hold our breath until that happens.
I hate it when they say, "He gave his life for his country." Nobody gives their life for anything. We steal the lives of these kids. We take it away from them. They don't die for the honor and glory of their country. We kill them."-- Admiral Gene LaRocque
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