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Old 05-07-2005, 07:25 PM
truebeliever truebeliever is offline
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Default Re: Laurence Gardner vs. De Vere. Gardner: NWO Agent Of Subversion?

Ah you see...the essence of it all.

We sin (get nasty at each other)...we ackowledge our sin...and then we are forgiven.

We join the community of sinners. I love it!

What a relief! What a load off the shoulders! To acknowledge no one is perfect and it's inevitable we will sin and be less than perfect.
I like the quotes. Yes. There is a time to acknowledge my common spirit with God but also to be seperate.

To me religion is simple. As you know I like Carl Jung alot. He's stated that the Gods have left the temples and will never return. I could'nt agree more.

The movement now is towards a responsible living of ones life and attention to ones calling. That will be our worship and commerce with God.

There's to much talking and not enough walking as you've said.

The Church has become a regression. A place to feel safe and not take responsability for your life. To simply "follow the rules" instead of owning your unique role in life.

It's going to be a difficult transition. Nothing like a good disaster or two to get us moving and into action.

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Old 05-08-2005, 03:13 AM
Draken Draken is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 899
Default Re: Laurence Gardner vs. De Vere. Gardner: NWO Agent Of Subversion?

Yeah, but remember that all cycles come to an end and start all over again. So God might've left the temples but He will return at the beginning of the next cycle.

The point is we're all made in the image of God and therefore Godlike and should strive to BE Godlike!

Remember that you can have a church or temple WITHIN, for the body should BE the temple of your SOUL. Who needs a church, synagogue, mosque or temple to go to if you have your own temple within?

A few more quotes:

"There are two types of death. One which is inevitable and common to all, and one which is voluntary and experienced by the few. It is the second death which the Messenger of Allah prescribed saying, "Die before you die." Those who die this voluntary death are resurrected. All the business of their lives return to the Oneness of God. They see God through God. As the Prophet said, on him be grace and peace, "You will not see your Lord until you are dead." This is because it is through this death and resurrection that everything becomes nothing and only One thing exists - One Reality. For initiates, whatever will befall a believer after physical death is prefigured in this life. This return of the many forms of things to Allah and the end of their becoming, is only a change in perception not in the Reality. For someone who dies and attains resurrection, the many are One through an essential Unity; and the One is many through His many aspects and their relationships."

I seem to recall a certain mysterious fellow from Nazareth talking about the same thing...

This is the death of the EGO, not the body. That's why a Sufi can honestly say, "I am God!" because he negates himself. Paraphrasing Rumi, someone who says, "I am the servant of God" infers two - God and himself - whereas someone who says, "I am God" means "I don't exist. Everything is God. Only God exists."

Also, that's what it means when the man knocks on God's door and says to God, "I'm You," meaning his Ego is dead and only God remains in its place.

Bayazid al-Bistami:

"I didn't take a single footstep toward God by being with the pious, or warriors in the cause, or those who pray excessively. So I asked, "God, how can I reach You?" God said, "Leave your self behind and come."

And on faults, mistakes and sins I agree with Bayazid totally:

"When does a man become a man?
When he knows his own mistakes and hurries to correct them."

Meaning that you have to be able to stand for your mistakes, but not give up trying to become a better person. Like many on this forum have said before, confessing your guilt and sin and assuming forgiveness doesn't mean you don't have to strive to become a better person. On the contrary, God's forgiveness lies in your own effort to become a better person.
It's worthless if you're constantly forgiven without making the effort not to repeat your sins and mistakes.

Finally, this is meant to all people who are too much thought and too little feeling (including myself):

"Someone who seeks God through logical proof is like someone who looks for the Sun with a lamp."
Three things are sacred to me: first Truth, and then, in its tracks, primordial prayer; Then virtue–nobility of soul which, in God walks on the path of beauty. Frithjof Schuon
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Old 05-08-2005, 04:51 AM
truebeliever truebeliever is offline
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Posts: 2,768
Default Re: Laurence Gardner vs. De Vere. Gardner: NWO Agent Of Subversion?

Could'nt agree more.

It's the repression of feeling that kills. If i cannot feel, i cannot have empathy. The notion..."I and the other are one"...cannot be if you cannot feel.

"What you do to the least of your bretheren you do unto me".

Trouble is...deep below, in a place we dont want to know about is a great big void. "The terror, the void, of complete loneliness".

Till you can face that you can never die.

You can go voluntarily or one can go kicking and screaming but sooner or later each of us must meet the dark night of the soul. Each of us must go deep into that metaphorical forest.

The greatest pain is to feel betrayed and abandoned. The deepest pain and the deepest wound as Christ attested.
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