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  #51  
Old 01-06-2010, 07:07 AM
Public Enemy Number One Public Enemy Number One is offline
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Default Re: Slavery still exists?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Truthbetold View Post
then why are Christian priests molesting children?
Real simple: Because there NOT Christians. They are no more Christians because they go to Church then you would be a dog because you crawled into a doghouse once a week.
I'm not saying Christians don't have problems; they do. What I am saying, however, is a persons actions speak louder then there words. If you claim to be a follower of Christ yet molest children, not only are you a liar, but a disgusting pervert on top of it. Moreover, you WILL pay for it, both in the here and now and in the afterlife.
My second point is that no Christian or even psuedo-Christian would try to assert that it is all a matter of opinion. But Atheism and Moral Relavism DOES undercut morality and DOES allowe someone to make that argument.
I challenge ANYONE to open the Bible, either Old Testament or New Testament, and quote IN CONTEXT a passage that encourages molesting of innocent children. If you can, I will PERSONALLY write you a check for $2,000. U.S Dollars. Prove me wrong and show me where The Bible says it is okay to molest children and the money is yours.

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  #52  
Old 01-06-2010, 02:44 PM
Truthbetold Truthbetold is offline
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Default Re: Slavery still exists?

I dont know if you are going to church, but if you mean what you state above, you know there is no need for a church to believe in a creator.

And you are wrong everything is a matter of opinion, you see the Christian "God' as the highest force while Buddisht see something very different.

So it's ALL a matter of opinion
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  #53  
Old 01-06-2010, 03:08 PM
jane doe jane doe is offline
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Default Re: Slavery still exists?

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Originally Posted by Truthbetold View Post

So it's ALL a matter of opinion

I think it is a matter of weight given to experience. If we are open to any experience, without an est. religious external influence, would we worship the stars and sun? If we are directed by external influences, either pro or con, our experiences are influenced thereof. But I like the dialog...

Slavery was established for more than one reason and often slaves were as identifiable as the corporate office worker.
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  #54  
Old 01-06-2010, 03:22 PM
Truthbetold Truthbetold is offline
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Default Re: Slavery still exists?

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Originally Posted by jane doe View Post
I think it is a matter of weight given to experience. If we are open to any experience, without an est. religious external influence, would we worship the stars and sun? If we are directed by external influences, either pro or con, our experiences are influenced thereof. But I like the dialog...

Slavery was established for more than one reason and often slaves were as identifiable as the corporate office worker.
Your message makes me very happy, I always tried to be as open as possible but i found out I wasnt as open as i found, more like being ignorant.

Slaves are bound, either by beliefs or by 'physical' shackles.
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  #55  
Old 01-07-2010, 07:00 AM
Public Enemy Number One Public Enemy Number One is offline
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Default Re: Slavery still exists?

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Originally Posted by Truthbetold View Post
I dont know if you are going to church, but if you mean what you state above, you know there is no need for a church to believe in a creator.


Of course you don't have to go to Church to believe in a Creator. The Scriuptures say that Satan and his demons believe in God, and tremble in fear because they KNOW there is a God. However, if you are implying that will give you salvation, you are incorrect. Satan and his demons, despite their belief in a Creator will burn in the Lake of Fire after the Great White Throne Judgement, for all eternity. So simply BELIEVING in a Creator will not save you.

And you are wrong everything is a matter of opinion, you see the Christian "God' as the highest force while Buddisht see something very different.

Yes, Buddha had some good things to say. However, as I understand it, Buddha was an agnostic. Unfortunately, as good as many of thing the Tathagata said were, he missed when he ignored God. There is only one Godhead which manifests itself in YHWH, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
Oh, and you get only one shot at life. There is no reincarnation..after death, those who believed in the Message of the Good News will be saved, whereas the unbeliever will be cast into Hell...
No other God exists, simple as that.


So it's ALL a matter of opinion

Nope. Buddha died and stayed dead. Jesus rose from the grave and was witnessed in his risen state by others, including the Apostles who all were murdered testifying to the resurrection of Jesus
.
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  #56  
Old 01-07-2010, 09:24 AM
jane doe jane doe is offline
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Default Re: Slavery still exists?

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Originally Posted by Public Enemy Number One View Post
Nope. Buddha died and stayed dead. Jesus rose from the grave and was witnessed in his risen state by others, including the Apostles who all were murdered testifying to the resurrection of Jesus.
I'm not judgeing for or against any religious beliefs, but there are perspectives other than yours. This is one:

Buddha's physical body left it's "plasma/energy" body. The body and the energy did separate in his death, however, what constitutes a true death? All energy continues in one state or another if converted from "living". Buddha might not have been seen by his followers because he shed his physical existence; it was something he had as an objective with his spiritual practice. So, I agree Buddha's body stayed dead, but it was converted to the energy of another state. Many buddhists become food/fuel for other creatures. They are fed by chopping their remains and scattering them to vultures in Tibet's mountains. Their hearts aren't pumping beyond the normal 4 hours life continuance, but their energy is converted into food for living organisms.

Yes, Jesus continues to be seen by many in his energy-physical state. Buddha continues to exist in many forms of energy, as well. I don't know whether Buddha has been seen by any though. I'll check into it though.
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  #57  
Old 01-07-2010, 01:03 PM
sarbu sarbu is offline
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Default Re: Slavery still exists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Public Enemy Number One View Post
Now you see the fruit of Atheism and Post-Modernism.

Can I make my point clearer? Since the Atheist and those who proscribe to Post-Modernism have NO OBJECTIVE STANDARD to base a moral/ethical system, MORALS AND ETHICS BECOME SIMPLY A MATTER OF **OPINION**!
That's right! That's what I have been saying all along. See, here in the United States are rights are based on the idea that they were endowed on us by our Creator-GOD! Since God gave us the right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness", no government or dictator can take them away. But once you cut God out of it, then just as right and wrong no longer exists, neither does any basis for you're rights to be "inalienable".
You CAN NOT be free if these rights are granted to you by a king, Congress, President Obama or by "The People". ONLY if these rights are acknowledged to come FROM GOD, and therefore INALIENABLE are they safe!
For years, Secularism, Post Modernism and Atheism have undercut the bedrock of public morality and our rights. We can NOT regain these by denying a Creator, nor by denying a system of morality. MORALS ARE NOT A MATTER OF OPINION! They are the "glue" that holds a sane society together.
We must ban together against Post-Modernism, Atheism and Situational Ethics. Only a sane, MORAL society who acknowledges the existence of a Creator who has endowed us with the unalienable rights mentioned in the Counstitution-only such a society can remain vibrant, strong and alive.

To qoute the Counstitution..."We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creatorwith certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness ." The Declaration of Independence

The Christian Apologist Josh Mcdowel defines Post Modernism as Josh McDowell & Bob Hostetler offer the following definition of postmodernism: “A worldview characterized by the belief that truth doesn’t exist in any objective sense but is created rather than discovered.” Truth is “created by the specific culture and exists only in that culture. Therefore, any system or statement that tries to communicate truth is a power play, an effort to dominate other cultures.”

a Link to the Wikipedia on Post Modernism: Postmodernism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Pardon my insolence, but how is cristianity any different from any other culture. it has more or less a "date of birth", it was only spread thruout the world by denial and opression of other beliefs, it seems to be the center of amlost any conspiracy theory regarding the new world order and similar mind controling techniques... i most certainly have my doubts regarding this subject. Any moral decision should come to us naturaly and not be imposed by some cultural fenomenon, but the fact is we donīt know what the hell we are doing. So i ask of you: in lack of an obvious reason, do we or do we not seek guidance amongst the ones living next to us? Stating that the Bible is truly the word of God doesnīt give you an excuse to your way of life, or by the way to undermine another opinion, it has the same value since it was presented to you by an institution and not by God himself. and letīs be onest.. are you capable of understanding anything at all from the Bible without taking in consideration somekind of interpretation?
excuse me if i donīt make miself perfectlty understood... the english language is not my own..
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  #58  
Old 01-07-2010, 02:26 PM
Public Enemy Number One Public Enemy Number One is offline
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Default Re: Slavery still exists?

[quote=sarbu;64318]Pardon my insolence, but how is cristianity any different from any other culture. it has more or less a "date of birth", it was only spread thruout the world by denial and opression of other beliefs, it seems to be the center of amlost any conspiracy theory regarding the new world order and similar mind controling techniques... i most certainly have my doubts regarding this subject. Any moral decision should come to us naturaly and not be imposed by some cultural fenomenon, but the fact is we donīt know what the hell we are doing. So i ask of you: in lack of an obvious reason, do we or do we not seek guidance amongst the ones living next to us? Stating that the Bible is truly the word of God doesnīt give you an excuse to your way of life, or by the way to undermine another opinion, it has the same value since it was presented to you by an institution and not by God himself. and letīs be onest.. are you capable of understanding anything at all from the Bible without taking in consideration somekind of interpretation?



Let's take your remarks piece by piece:

You say our beliefs should come naturally and not from social phenomena. Well, Ma'm or Sir, THAT belief, that says it should come naturally and not from society WAS given to you by a culture. In fact, the very characters you are using to express that opinion is from a culture (An English speaking one).
YOU may not "know what the hell" you are doing, but I Sir or Ma'm, most certainly do. I am ennunciating the thoughts and beliefs that have developed through thousands of years of Judeo-Christian culture. These serve as the bedrock, in many ways, for Western culture.
You English is far better then many native born to that language. Perhaps, if you are in a Western country, you may choose to peruse books on our culture. It will show you in unmistakable terms that Judaism and Christianity have contributed HUGELY to Western ideas, philosophies and intellectual history.
Secondly, you say that quote " Stating that the Bible is truly the word of God doesnīt give you an excuse to your way of life, or by the way to undermine another opinion." You are incorrect, Sir or Ma'am. The Bill of Rights do:

The Bill of Rights says : ( Link :The Bill of Rights - Text Version | Freedom Documents)
Article III

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.



In fact, religious speech is protected in the United States of America. You can see the case law on it here:FindLaw: U.S. Constitution: First Amendment: Annotations pg. 5 of 21


''The Free Exercise Clause . . . withdraws from legislative power, state and federal, the exertion of any restraint on the free exercise of religion. Its purpose is to secure religious liberty in the individual by prohibiting any invasions there by civil authority.'' 178 It bars ''governmental regulation of religious beliefs as such,'' 179 prohibiting misuse of secular governmental programs ''to impede the observance of one or all religions or . . . to discriminate invidiously between religions . . . even though the burden may be characterized as being only indirect.'' 180 Freedom of conscience is the basis of the free exercise clause, and government may not penalize or discriminate against an individual or a group of individuals because of their religious views nor may it compel persons to affirm any particular beliefs. 181 Interpretation is complicated, however, by the fact that exercise of religion usually entails ritual or other practices that constitute ''conduct'' rather than pure ''belief.'' When it comes to protecting conduct as free exercise, the Court has been inconsistent. 182 It has long been held that the Free Exercise Clause does not necessarily prevent government from requiring the doing of some act or forbidding the doing of some act merely because religious beliefs underlie the conduct in question. 183 What has changed over the years is the Court's willingness to hold that some religiously motivated conduct is protected from generally applicable prohibitions.

Therefore, by Article III of the Bill of Rights and by the law "'The Free Exercise Clause . . . withdraws from legislative power, state and federal, the exertion of any restraint on the free exercise of religion. Its purpose is to secure religious liberty in the individual by prohibiting any invasions there by civil authority.'' 178 It bars ''governmental regulation of religious beliefs as such,''. That means IO can express my opinion on religious issues and am empowered to use my free speech to speak on religious issues any way I want to. It also means I can stand outside a Mousque or Temple and protest, or urinate on a stack of Qurans if I want to, just as others have burned the American Flag or spat apoun returning soldiers (as they did on the Vietnam War calling them "baby killers")

Moreover, I have exercised my right to bear arms, so I have an AK-47 (or Avtomat Kalashnikova) (AK-47 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) and a Glock 9 milimeter. What this means is anyone who tries to stop me through violence gets sprayed with bullets.
So you see, yes I have the right to express, preach and live my religion and no, you can't stop me as long as I am alive..SO if you need to silence me, get a gang of thugs with assault rifles and KILL ME.

Last edited by Public Enemy Number One : 01-07-2010 at 02:30 PM.
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  #59  
Old 01-07-2010, 03:36 PM
sarbu sarbu is offline
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Default Re: Slavery still exists?

By all means you should follow whatever belief you chose, however freedom of speech is not freedom of thought. i come from an eastern culture that is highly orthodox, witch i think is a preety conservative and old version of cristianity, that by the time it has sperad to the US it already took somewhat of a different shape. i DO NOT blame you for choosing to follow GOD, since it should be of utter importance to our existence. however the way you do that is reason for argument. why put so much value in projecting your "knowlege" since it was so manipulated? clearly man was as long as we know into being superior, so many models of a better society have emerged thruout history that i canīt really be sure if anything is for real today. FAITH is important, but should we confuse our being afraid and irracional with having the knowlege and tools to change our fate,to be redeemed for our sins? you can call me Horatio, since that would be an acurate translation from latin of my name. i certainly have to respect your opinion because i also believe that this right belongs to us all, but this is an open discussion where we can express ourselves freely, so no offence, and i sincerly hope i can learn something with this.
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  #60  
Old 01-07-2010, 04:03 PM
sarbu sarbu is offline
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Default Re: Slavery still exists?

Sometimes i think how this whole story is ridiculous. it sufices that someone has a different opinion and from nowhere they fall into some cathegory from atheist to stupid.. whatever, since they arenīt with us they are against us. stop for a moment and think about it. isnīt this one of the reasons we hate so much the world we live in, and have been living for as long as we can remember, or should i say we are permited to remember? we seek sides even though we confrount ourselves with the same issues (it is true though that some donīt get that far or donīt have time for it). it is amazing how we accept problems that donīt exist to ocupy our minds from the ones that truly matter. everything is relative and somehow irrelevant from the liberty of speech to the pursuit of happiness if you come to think of it.
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