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  #11  
Old 04-21-2010, 01:24 PM
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Sentrynox Sentrynox is offline
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Default Re: How to find Space Ready life in the Universe!


Ok little boy! You will learn few things as you grow up! First school isn't about truth! Experience IS!

Ask a microbiologist what he thinks of viruses! He will tell you that their origin isn't likely to come from our own planet as they defy what we describe living entity! Recently they found that virus do also have even smaller virus attacking them! Meaning that a virus can infect another one!
But viruses are even weirder than this! They can form in space and survive irradiations!
Also some of them might even been formed inside the radiation cloud of super nova, where BE-10 radiations help their formation. But this you won't be capable to do such links until you dig deeper with your own questionings!

Peer review papers are necessary for scientists when it comes to new discoveries... I like to be ironic... Sorry if you do not like ; )

As for the geology of our planet, it is important to know that life has shaped its mineral composition to very high level! Increasing the conditions needed for life to thrive!, Acidic levels and alkaline levels in the ground have been stabilized, filtering our atmosphere, making it proper to sustain denser patches of life! Stones and minerals do act as filters for water (like rivers or lakes) and our atmosphere! And this you should know this! So if intelligent life has to appear it will be due to the long work of life activities on the surface and beneath the surface of their planet! Meaning that life can even change a planet in ways that make it more viable toward evolution of complex biological entities, even if at first the conditions weren't optimal!

As for your opinion that Symbiogenesis makes it even less likely for life to appear is mainly out of surface reasonings! If you learn a bit of advance biochemistry, you learn that what puts all our proteins together is called Chirality (racemic molecules or non-racemic). This Chirality order is the same for all life on this planet, and only molecules created in laboratory do not have the same! Actually, science do have a really hard time at figuring out the primordial soup that have seen life arising from! There are many recipes but one of the most important variable that have been overlooked is the action of the Earth magnetic field on biochemistry! It has shaped our molecules Chirality and determined their level of interactions! (I can provide a "peer review paper" if you like!!)
So out of this mess, when you close up a bit into the details of how life did appear, you can feel a certain order of things! And order that have guided the development of ALL life, in and out of the ecosystem! Things makes senses but sciences do have a hard time to prove everything that works in nature and even more so outside our little blue planet!
So yes, you can sit and ponder that science hasn't YET proved that Virus do indeed come from outerspace, to make you feel comfortable about it, but the truth is that science isn't even close to prove anything such as this, so do you think that we should wait and sit because of this?
Schools teach you 2 things: how to structure your mind to fit inside the system called society, and show you how determining the interactions with peoples will be on your professional life (what you do will mostly depend of who you know if you reach a certain level).
But it doesn't have the arrogance of saying, HEY school IS the truth!! YOU will experience it because you will have learned how to learn from LIFE itself! It is why the world is lead by peoples over their 40's, because they have experienced life, not only learn about it!
As for me, I do not care much about scientific reviews, or peer reviews, as it has been a while that I have proved myself that my hypothesis were correct and it has been a while that I understood that most peoples in my field were full of arrogance and seeing only what they want to see, with so little imagination that they couldn't even see how their mother loved them!

So, yes in my opinion and from a scientific point of view intelligent life is very possible outside our little planet, but ONLY if you get out of the box and begin to think for yourself instead of being induced what YOU MUST think!
And you must also know that saying such thing as Virus coming from space is crazy, also undermine your credibility when you know that virus origin is unclear and that science didn't have found the answer to this yet!

So, knowing that virus do cause mutation in our DNA, and that our Human brain have mutate 2 times in the last 40000 years, we might surmise that those mutations have been triggered by some kinds of virus since its about the only horizontal gene transfer mechanism out there. And you must admit that viral DNA composing 43% of our genome is incredibly high for a complex life form like us! So these horizontal gene transfers have help shape humans as we are now! And on a evolutionary scale, our bipedal model is the most economic (considering how much energy our brain do consume), and the most likely form for another advance life form!

Anyhow, yes there are a lot of conjectures! You might believe what is the most comfortable for you at this point, it won't matter! But with experience you will discerns whats making senses, and whats not! So you were asking why intelligent was possible outside our planet, so I answer with my opinion, as no scientist can really answer this with absolute evidences! But life is much more resilient than you think, and when you come to know her, up and close you understand that there is MUCH we can't even understand yet! Life is much more complex than she seems, and the process of life in this Universe is much more powerful than you might think!
But this only time will teach you!
On this, have a great time finding your answers!

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  #12  
Old 04-21-2010, 02:12 PM
superted superted is offline
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Default Re: How to find Space Ready life in the Universe!

Sentrynox, Sentrynox.....SENTRYNOX!!!! lol I would bet money you have some sort of clinical mental illness.

"Ask a microbiologist what he thinks of viruses!"

LOL well I work every summer, easter and xmas with 12 of them. There's no absolutely no proof for a theory that supports ET formation of viruses. Please reference! I've got a feeling that this is totally your deluded opinion. You talk of experience and other nonsense - will experience mean that whatever magic I want to believe to be comes true? Perhaps you've got early onset dementia - it would explain a lot!

"with so little imagination that they couldn't even see how their mother loved them!"

What are you talking about? So your telling me that what I read and understand in the journal Nature is in fact lies and only when I hit the big 40 will I truly understand the scientific world? I think grandpa forgot his medicine again?

"As for the geology of our planet, it is important to know that life has shaped its mineral composition to very high level!"

No Sentrynox - still not relevant.

" If you learn a bit of advance biochemistry"

Strange thing is Sentrynox, I have yet this too has no relevance.

"yes in my opinion and from a scientific point of view intelligent life is very possible outside our little planet"

No Sentrynox it is not the view of the scientific community, just your nursing home community.

So what have I learned from all your ramblings....? Most people might say..."not a thing superted". But no I have realised your whole goofy theory hangs on the assumption that the virus came from outerspace....yet there's not one shred of evidence for this. Now I realise that stating the obvious may piss you off slightly but somebody had to tell you.

BUT let me entertain your madness, IF a virus did originate from another planet then so what? A virus does not constitute an intelligent life form. Let me again draw your attention to the fact that on our planet (which is perfect for raising life and chalk FULL of various viruses of differing shapes and forms) intelligent life only constitutes 0.000001% of life today, and this life has only been on the planet 0.004% of it's life! The numbers speak for themselves Sentrynox.....
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  #13  
Old 04-21-2010, 06:14 PM
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Sentrynox Sentrynox is offline
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Default Re: How to find Space Ready life in the Universe!

Me, I will bet some money that you are in fact a young teen pasting and copying texts from Wikipedias!!

At least it looks like you can't read much...
I never said that virus were from another planet, I did say that they were to some extent capable to survive space travel and formed inside super nova explosion clouds, which isn't on ANY planet!!
Also I didn't say that this was MY theory, because it isn't a theory, as it is only an Hypothesis that science cannot even come close to put to the test! We are lacking virus fossils records, so we can't trace their origin at all at this point! But astronomic observations have shows that nucleic acids do form inside particle clouds in outer space!

I did publish in Magazine Nature in 2004, and they do not report everything in our research paper, as peer reviews is also used as a censor organ to kill potentially threatening research (threatening to private fundings or other big multinationals), so you will quickly learn that truth in such competitive environment do not travel faster than light... On the contrary!!
At McGill University in Montreal, some microbiologists aren't shy to expose their hypothesis on the Origin of virus, since it doesn't fit the patterns of life creation on our planet!

Also, of course it isn't a consensus from the Scientific community to say that intelligent life do exist! What do you think? You ask me my opinions, and from an anthropological point of view, it does make a lot of senses! But who says that everyone inside the scientific community makes senses? Again so much competitions there, you won't EVER know the real truth from them at least!!
But not knowing this reality, means that you are either in the main stream science, doing your little things, and aren't even close of being in the great leagues of cutting edge science!!

Also, you might have made a paper on Symbiogenesis theory, but what about Endosymbiotism theory?

In Acquiring Genomes: A Theory of the Origins of Species. In this paper, Margulis argued that symbiogenesis is a primary force in evolution. According to her theory, acquisition and accumulation of random mutations are not sufficient to explain how inherited variations occur. Instead, new organelles, bodies, organs, and species arise from symbiogenesis. Margulis is also a pioneer in gaia theory. Along with James Lovelock, Margulis has helped to popularize the concept and give it its modern form. Symbiogenesis theory clearly works well within gaianism, as it stresses the need to look at interactions of populations of organisms at given periods of time. During her talk, Margulis stressed the fact that individuals don't evolve but populations do. Her only qualms with Darwinism was that she believes the diversity of life arose not through competition but through organisms networking with each other.Recent work on the human genome project has certainly added credence to Margulis's claim. During the talk, Dr. Shiva Singh noted that upwards of 41% (now closer to 43%) of the human genome is comprised of viral DNA. Margulis also noted that the human body is not one singular organism. Rather, like the Earth's ecosystem, the human body is a community of life. We have bacteria in our gut and critters on our skin. Without them, we couldn't survive. She noted the case of one individual who lacked the ability to maintain such a balance, and it cost extreme sums of money to keep the person alive before he eventually died.

Seeing this, it takes some huge leap of imagination to see life a UNIQUE force or entity made of billions of different species, complex and simples. So seeing this as a unique force, it can be surmise that this did not arise from here, but was seeded on Earth somehow. As our planet is also member of another ecosystem, called solar system, and that solar system is also member of another ecosystem call Milky way Galaxy!
I doubt you can follow me there, but for me it is obvious that when you consider the fact that weather patterns inside our atmosphere are influenced by the weather inside our solar system (mainly coming from the activity of the sun like particle winds and magnetic storms), we can assume that everything there is also link in some ways but on much larger time scales, which are oblivious to modern scientific observations (because we weren't there at all when it happens).

So thats about it, you might not like it, but this is what I believe!
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  #14  
Old 04-21-2010, 07:11 PM
superted superted is offline
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Default Re: How to find Space Ready life in the Universe!

Your problem Sentrynox is that you make a sensible statement about one thing and then just pluck random facts out of thin air that are not related and link them together, hoping that everyone just assumes the link is viable....do you think we're all stupid?

Case in point;

"So seeing this as a unique force, it can be surmise that this did not arise from here, but was seeded on Earth somehow."

You talk about humans and other complex animals as essentially a group of coexisting smaller single celled or muti-celled organisms, which I would agree with. So that's your sensible statement. Then there's the above quoted drivel. You try to seemlessly link your sensible statement with your opinion (and that's all it is) that life originated from outside Earth. You even go as far to say you can "surmise" this based on the fact it's "a unique force". Your totally talking BS and hoping we just swallow it! Not me chump!

I don't understand your use of scientifically proved data but at the same time rubbish the scientific community whenever they obviously disagree with you. And here's a newsflash gramps, the scientific community aren't some random people that pick and chose what to believe or what is fashionable, but what theory best fits the facts. The scientific community have varied opinions on various topics and I for one have my own thoughts and feelings. I read published scientific papers that follow rules, they try to be unbiased and tell the story in pure facts! I read these facts and I come to MY OWN conclusions. Nobody has told me there isn't much chance of intelligent life you there in the universe, I came to that conclusion myself. The facts I have given out throughout the debate speak for themselves, I don't have to say a thing. Anyone that reads this thread can take the facts I have presented and maybe come up with a different conclusion and that would be great. BUT any opinions need to be backed by fact, otherwise its just BS! And Sentrynox my friend, you are full of it!

EDIT: Can you post a link to your paper published in Nature, I would like to read it. I am very jealous, it is the most prestigious journal in the world!

Last edited by superted : 04-21-2010 at 07:14 PM.
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  #15  
Old 04-21-2010, 08:35 PM
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Sentrynox Sentrynox is offline
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Default Re: How to find Space Ready life in the Universe!

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Originally Posted by superted View Post
Your problem Sentrynox is that you make a sensible statement about one thing and then just pluck random facts out of thin air that are not related and link them together, hoping that everyone just assumes the link is viable....do you think we're all stupid?

Case in point;

"So seeing this as a unique force, it can be surmise that this did not arise from here, but was seeded on Earth somehow."

You talk about humans and other complex animals as essentially a group of coexisting smaller single celled or muti-celled organisms, which I would agree with. So that's your sensible statement. Then there's the above quoted drivel. You try to seemlessly link your sensible statement with your opinion (and that's all it is) that life originated from outside Earth. You even go as far to say you can "surmise" this based on the fact it's "a unique force". Your totally talking BS and hoping we just swallow it! Not me chump!

I don't understand your use of scientifically proved data but at the same time rubbish the scientific community whenever they obviously disagree with you. And here's a newsflash gramps, the scientific community aren't some random people that pick and chose what to believe or what is fashionable, but what theory best fits the facts. The scientific community have varied opinions on various topics and I for one have my own thoughts and feelings. I read published scientific papers that follow rules, they try to be unbiased and tell the story in pure facts! I read these facts and I come to MY OWN conclusions. Nobody has told me there isn't much chance of intelligent life you there in the universe, I came to that conclusion myself. The facts I have given out throughout the debate speak for themselves, I don't have to say a thing. Anyone that reads this thread can take the facts I have presented and maybe come up with a different conclusion and that would be great. BUT any opinions need to be backed by fact, otherwise its just BS! And Sentrynox my friend, you are full of it!

EDIT: Can you post a link to your paper published in Nature, I would like to read it. I am very jealous, it is the most prestigious journal in the world!

I do not say that the scientific community disagree with me, I just say that my ideas are too much ahead for any kind of consensus to take place! I do admit of projecting myself into thin air, when it comes to scientific arguments, but the fact is that after so many years, you win an understanding that is difficult to express. So you can do links with things that escape many others! It is what is happening here! I am used about provoking others, its my main fun in science! Without provocation thoughts do not mature and even less evolve!
As for life in general, it has always been link with its ecosystem! No ecosystem no life... Thats simple! So if we link life on Earth as a single living energy (force if you prefer) that we can call Gaia, this Gaia is indeed link with Earth ecosystem (since Earth IS Gaia), so knowing this, and knowing that Earth is indeed part of another ecosystem, we can hardly contest that interrelations are occuring! From there, its kind of a whats come first, the egg or the Chicken! And if you know a bit of Paleontology, you will know that the answer is the Chicken (let me know if I need to explain why it is so)... Therefore the ecosystem of Earth has seeded it with life!
Of course this is an Hypothesis! But it does make sense if you can follow the thread! Life in the Universe is similar to Russian dolls, showing each ecosystem inside another one, until you reach the smallest doll and see a Human in its representation (not cut in half but whole).
If I believe in this to be true, its because every time I use this hypothesis of mine to find answers, it always bounce back at me and verify itself, as this idea often happens to comfort another one, or even help me to find an answer that no other scientists have come with!
Its a little bit like building your own world, your coherent world, when you come to see so many different things, you are kind of becoming capable to simulate almost everything in your mind because everything is coherent! Which for me is enough to convince me that this hypothesis do hold on its own, even if not really tested or measured!

As for my article, I do not have copy of it, but it has been published September 30, page 496. I did work with the best in the world in the field of Paleontology, I have surfed the edge of world discoveries and seen things that no one has ever see! So yes, it has given me some momentum that is hard to follow for some! But for me my ideas kind of live on their owns, so I am content with them!

So for you this might be out of thin air, but when you will gain enough confidence in your perception of life mechanism you will begin to feel it, and feel that it works or not! But this takes long years to build such perception, it is why for you it seems out of thin air, while for me its solid rock!! It makes plain senses! Its like returning a rock on all its angles and be sure of what kind of rock it is... My ideas are the same, I have looked at them from EVERY angles for so many years, that I am convince that they are right, even if hard to refute or even prove!

Last edited by Sentrynox : 04-21-2010 at 08:39 PM.
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  #16  
Old 04-22-2010, 04:52 AM
superted superted is offline
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Default Re: How to find Space Ready life in the Universe!

Well Sentrynox - so long as YOU believe your story, that's all that matters.

I searched the Nature archive...."Valuable dinosaur fossil may have been crushed in fracas"

That's not a paper Sentrynox, just an article, not really the same. Im sure that time on the cutting edge of science was good...
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Old 04-22-2010, 12:01 PM
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Sentrynox Sentrynox is offline
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Default Re: How to find Space Ready life in the Universe!

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Well Sentrynox - so long as YOU believe your story, that's all that matters.

I searched the Nature archive...."Valuable dinosaur fossil may have been crushed in fracas"

That's not a paper Sentrynox, just an article, not really the same. Im sure that time on the cutting edge of science was good...
You want to know why I never publish a "real" paper as you said?
Its because I was working on mass extinctions events (the huge 5 prehistoric ones), and then began to translate my findings with what was happening here, right now on Earth and didn't like it at all!
More species die every year than in every other mass extinction events, and if this trends continue for once, it might just happen that ALL life goes extinct!
So let me know if you really want to read such "paper" and let me know, what is most important in life... To get publish or get a proper perspective of things! I do have lost many friends because of the "article" you have read there! He seems like nothing, but that was HUGE! The dino crush was a Sinosaupteryx Prima of about 2m long with feathers! A missing link between the dino and the birds... That wasn't an happy event at all for science that day!
So you might next time you met someone like me in person, take the time to talk to him in person instead of denigrating them!
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Old 04-22-2010, 12:34 PM
superted superted is offline
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Default Re: How to find Space Ready life in the Universe!

"talk to him in person instead of denigrating them"

Isn't that a bit rich Sentrynox? You started the denigration! I asked you not be rude but time after time you insulted me - did you expect me to take that lying down?
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  #19  
Old 04-22-2010, 01:16 PM
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Sentrynox Sentrynox is offline
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Default Re: How to find Space Ready life in the Universe!

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"talk to him in person instead of denigrating them"

Isn't that a bit rich Sentrynox? You started the denigration! I asked you not be rude but time after time you insulted me - did you expect me to take that lying down?
At first glance your arguments didn't seems coming from someone serious at all! More like a teen asking things... So I push a bit but its my way of doing things! To see what they have in their mind! And it works great with you ; )

And by the way, I might have been wrong a bunch of times, but when important things were at stakes I NEVER GOT IT WRONG!

In the mean time, you might want to know why life on Earth is going toward extinction?
The End of Natural Human Evolution | The Mind Traveler
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  #20  
Old 05-05-2010, 07:03 AM
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Sentrynox Sentrynox is offline
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Default Re: How to find Space Ready life in the Universe!

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First of all, Human intelligence has arisen because of trades! So it makes our specie a trade based intelligence!


Term papers
Our brain has become much more flexible because of trades unlocking abilities that have created our social fabric over times until now... We are a social specie too, so trades became the next step in the evolution of our specie!
In other words, no trades, no large scale social fabric would have been possible and even less our modern society!
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