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  #1  
Old 05-19-2010, 12:32 PM
galexander galexander is offline
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Default Are American Freemasons 'Blue Bloods'?


I would like to make the observation that American Freemasonry does not appear to be that different from its kin in Europe.

In the United Kingdom the Freemasons are very much sponsored by the present Royal Family. The Duke of Kent is the official head of the Freemasons while the Queen heads the Order of the Druids.

However considering that American history is somewhat different from UK history, why is it that the rites and rituals are practically identical?

Why is it that an elitist, aristocratic organisation from Europe is copied such that an almost exact replica is found in the US?

Surely there is nothing revolutionary or republican in an organisation that traces its roots back to the medieval Knights Templar?

I was interested to hear how the masonic Skull and Bones of Yale of which George Bush senior was a member has its origins traced back to America's 'Blue Bloods'. These people weren't really committed to American Independence and owned a lot of wealth they didn't wish to lose.

On America's Blue Bloods see the following link:

Bluebloods: America’s Ruling Class

Anton Chaitkin in his book "Treason in America: from Aaron Burr to Averell Harriman" documents the takeover of the US by these Blue Bloods. He traces their descents from their family archives.

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  #2  
Old 05-19-2010, 02:59 PM
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Default Re: Are American Freemasons 'Blue Bloods'?

America was duped by English Freemasons, like George Washington. They were in place to make sure that taxes were still being collected.

All Freemasons, are loyal to the Queen of England (British Royalty). Many don't even know it, as they haven't bothered to review the history.

That's why we have states like Virginia, named after Queen Victoria, The House of Burgesses, of which Washington was a member of, was created to instill the English Court system, which is a masonic system.

Quote:
During the 1610s, the small English colony at Jamestown was essentially a failure. Fearful of losing their investment, the officers of the Virginia Company in London embarked upon a series of reforms designed to attract more people to the troubled settlement

Company officials also made justice in Virginia more predictable by adopting English common law as the basis of their system, which replaced the whims of the governor as the final voice on legal matters. In 1620, in an effort to create a more stable society, the company dispatched a boatload of marriageable women to the colony; the going rate was 120 pounds of tobacco for each bride.
House of Burgesses
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  #3  
Old 05-19-2010, 10:54 PM
BlueAngel BlueAngel is offline
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Default Re: Are American Freemasons 'Blue Bloods'?

Quote:
Originally Posted by galexander View Post
I was interested to hear how the masonic Skull and Bones of Yale of which George Bush senior was a member has its origins traced back to America's 'Blue Bloods'. These people weren't really committed to American Independence and owned a lot of wealth they didn't wish to lose.

On America's Blue Bloods see the following link:

Bluebloods: America’s Ruling Class

Anton Chaitkin in his book "Treason in America: from Aaron Burr to Averell Harriman" documents the takeover of the US by these Blue Bloods. He traces their descents from their family archives.
Being a "blue blood" has nothing to do with being committed to American Independence.

Blue blood is an expression from the Spanish phrase "sangre azul", indicating nobility or noble descent.

As I've stated on the forum, America has a ruling class, but we don't refer to it as a MONARCHY, although it is, because those with money and power are all related in some form or fashion; distant cousins or otherwise.

If this were common knowledge, America would not be considered to be independent and a democracy.

America would be considered to be governed by a ruling class and people would not be under the impression that THEY are the ruling class.

The thread I authored that speaks to this issue is:

http://www.clubconspiracy.com/forum/...eney-5562.html

Last edited by BlueAngel : 05-19-2010 at 11:12 PM.
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  #4  
Old 05-20-2010, 12:10 PM
galexander galexander is offline
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Default Re: Are American Freemasons 'Blue Bloods'?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stompk View Post
America was duped by English Freemasons, like George Washington. They were in place to make sure that taxes were still being collected.

All Freemasons, are loyal to the Queen of England (British Royalty). Many don't even know it, as they haven't bothered to review the history.

That's why we have states like Virginia, named after Queen Victoria, The House of Burgesses, of which Washington was a member of, was created to instill the English Court system, which is a masonic system.


House of Burgesses
I am fascinated by your historical quote stompk:

Quote:
During the 1610s, the small English colony at Jamestown was essentially a failure. Fearful of losing their investment, the officers of the Virginia Company in London embarked upon a series of reforms designed to attract more people to the troubled settlement

Company officials also made justice in Virginia more predictable by adopting English common law as the basis of their system, which replaced the whims of the governor as the final voice on legal matters. In 1620, in an effort to create a more stable society, the company dispatched a boatload of marriageable women to the colony; the going rate was 120 pounds of tobacco for each bride.
I don't wish to sound like a stickler for historical accuracy but wasn't the 1610's before American Independence?
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Old 05-20-2010, 12:22 PM
galexander galexander is offline
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Default Re: Are American Freemasons 'Blue Bloods'?

I don't wish to confuse things too much but it also cannot be forgotten that there are in fact two rival schools among the Freemasons.

The Grand Orient de France and the United Grand Lodge of England. Obviously the rivalry between the French and the British is historic.

It seems the Orients played a part in American Independence:

Quote:
The Lodge Les Neuf Sœurs was a prominent lodge attached to the Grand Orient de France that was particularly influential in organising French support for the American Revolution and later in the intellectual ferment that preceded the French Revolution. Benjamin Franklin was a member of this Lodge when he was serving as liaison in Paris.
Possibly the French were getting there own back on the British by encouraging an independence movement in America. The French had suffered defeat against the British in the Americas.
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  #6  
Old 05-31-2010, 06:47 PM
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KSigMason KSigMason is offline
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Default Re: Are American Freemasons 'Blue Bloods'?

Quote:
Originally Posted by galexander View Post
Why is it that an elitist, aristocratic organisation from Europe is copied such that an almost exact replica is found in the US?
Well, Freemasonry isn't an elitist, aristocratic organization. A good man who holds a faith is eligible to petition for membership.

Quote:
Originally Posted by galexander View Post
Surely there is nothing revolutionary or republican in an organisation that traces its roots back to the medieval Knights Templar?
And even though there is no concrete evidence that there is a direct connection between Freemasons and Knights Templar, why would you say that about the Templars? I'd say, for their time, the Knights had a very democratic process as they elected their Grand Master (the head of the Order).

Quote:
Originally Posted by galexander View Post
I was interested to hear how the masonic Skull and Bones of Yale of which George Bush senior was a member has its origins traced back to America's 'Blue Bloods'. These people weren't really committed to American Independence and owned a lot of wealth they didn't wish to lose.
First, the Skull & Bones is not connected in any ways to the Freemasons, specifically as an affiliated body.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stompk View Post
They were in place to make sure that taxes were still being collected.
So how is a government to function without some taxes being collected. Personally, I'm a staunch conservative and against high taxes, and prefer a smaller federal government.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stompk View Post
All Freemasons, are loyal to the Queen of England (British Royalty). Many don't even know it, as they haven't bothered to review the history.
Wrong my friend. Nowhere in any Oaths that I have taken have I sworn loyalty to the Queen of England. In fact, we promise never to let women join our Craft (which some feminists have a huge problem with I'm sure). Nor do we swear loyalty to British Royalty. Every Grand Lodge is sovereign unto itself and there is no superior body that controls the Grand Lodge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stompk View Post
That's why we have states like Virginia, named after Queen Victoria, The House of Burgesses, of which Washington was a member of, was created to instill the English Court system, which is a masonic system.
How is the English Court system a Masonic system?
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Old 06-01-2010, 01:53 PM
galexander galexander is offline
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Default Re: Are American Freemasons 'Blue Bloods'?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KSigMason View Post
Well, Freemasonry isn't an elitist, aristocratic organization. A good man who holds a faith is eligible to petition for membership.


And even though there is no concrete evidence that there is a direct connection between Freemasons and Knights Templar, why would you say that about the Templars? I'd say, for their time, the Knights had a very democratic process as they elected their Grand Master (the head of the Order).


First, the Skull & Bones is not connected in any ways to the Freemasons, specifically as an affiliated body.


So how is a government to function without some taxes being collected. Personally, I'm a staunch conservative and against high taxes, and prefer a smaller federal government.


Wrong my friend. Nowhere in any Oaths that I have taken have I sworn loyalty to the Queen of England. In fact, we promise never to let women join our Craft (which some feminists have a huge problem with I'm sure). Nor do we swear loyalty to British Royalty. Every Grand Lodge is sovereign unto itself and there is no superior body that controls the Grand Lodge.


How is the English Court system a Masonic system?
Thank you for taking the time to reply to the points you have itemised above.

The first question I'd like to ask you if I may is are you a Grand Orient Freemason? This could clear up any question as to swearing an oath to the British Crown.

The second question I'd like to ask but again which is rather predictable I'm afraid, is what is the purpose of the Freemasons?

So far we have not been convinced by the explanation that it is a charity, a social club etc, etc.

Please enlighten us.................why the secrecy?
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Old 06-01-2010, 04:19 PM
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KSigMason KSigMason is offline
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Default Re: Are American Freemasons 'Blue Bloods'?

No, I'm not a clandestine Freemason. I am a part of the recognized, true bodies of Freemasonry. The Orients and unrecognized, rogue Lodges are a thorn in the side of Freemasonry and our noble causes. Even as a Mason under my Grand Lodge, I don't fall under the British Crown. The UGLE, or any other Grand Lodge, wouldn't ever try to encroach upon another Grand Lodge's sovereignty as it would cause schisms within the Brotherhood. By my Oath as a Master Mason I, and all those within my Grand Lodge, couldn't be under the control of the British Crown as a woman cannot be a Mason, under the Grand Lodge regulations that all recognized Grand Lodges abide by.

Freemasonry strives to better the world around us. We strive to set an example of virtue and charity that others may follow. We believe equality, morality, love for one another, integrity, and fidelity/loyalty. Every man joins for various reasons, some are not always good. Some, like conspiracy theorists join with mercenary motives to expose us, and some join to see if they can get networking-connections. I'm not going to lie and say every Mason has been good - there is always a bad apple in the orchard.

Why haven't you been convinced? I bet many of the benefactors of these Masonic charities would have to argue against your distrust.

It's not so much secrecy (as you can find most anything on the internet) as it is privacy. There are many things outside the realms of this venerable Fraternity that are private and do not let non-members attend. We're a private group and as such entitled to privacy. I mean, you're not willing to share with us your bank account number and routing number, are you?
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Old 06-02-2010, 11:58 AM
galexander galexander is offline
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Default Re: Are American Freemasons 'Blue Bloods'?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KSigMason View Post
No, I'm not a clandestine Freemason. I am a part of the recognized, true bodies of Freemasonry. The Orients and unrecognized, rogue Lodges are a thorn in the side of Freemasonry and our noble causes. Even as a Mason under my Grand Lodge, I don't fall under the British Crown. The UGLE, or any other Grand Lodge, wouldn't ever try to encroach upon another Grand Lodge's sovereignty as it would cause schisms within the Brotherhood. By my Oath as a Master Mason I, and all those within my Grand Lodge, couldn't be under the control of the British Crown as a woman cannot be a Mason, under the Grand Lodge regulations that all recognized Grand Lodges abide by.

Freemasonry strives to better the world around us. We strive to set an example of virtue and charity that others may follow. We believe equality, morality, love for one another, integrity, and fidelity/loyalty. Every man joins for various reasons, some are not always good. Some, like conspiracy theorists join with mercenary motives to expose us, and some join to see if they can get networking-connections. I'm not going to lie and say every Mason has been good - there is always a bad apple in the orchard.

Why haven't you been convinced? I bet many of the benefactors of these Masonic charities would have to argue against your distrust.

It's not so much secrecy (as you can find most anything on the internet) as it is privacy. There are many things outside the realms of this venerable Fraternity that are private and do not let non-members attend. We're a private group and as such entitled to privacy. I mean, you're not willing to share with us your bank account number and routing number, are you?
I couldn't help noticing the use of the words 'noble' and 'sovereign' in your first paragraph. Perhaps this was just an accident.

You admit that 'there is always a bad apple in the orchard'. Presumably this is a reference to the infamous P2 lodge of Italy who had to be broken up by the Italian government.

P2 were an exception because they worked outside of the government and against the government as part of a conspiracy.

But what about the Masons who work within the government and with the government?

For example what is your answer to the observation that Freemasons have the reputation of being pro-establishment, conservative and right wing?

As for the following quote:

Quote:
We're a private group and as such entitled to privacy. I mean, you're not willing to share with us your bank account number and routing number, are you?
Don't forget that what you just said could accidentally be misconstrued as an attempted offer of a bribe!
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  #10  
Old 06-02-2010, 02:10 PM
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KSigMason KSigMason is offline
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Default Re: Are American Freemasons 'Blue Bloods'?

What's wrong with using noble or sovereign? Our cause is noble and our jurisdictions are sovereign unto themselves.

My "bad apple" comment refers not to P2, but to some individual Brothers who are not always good or have been expelled. P2 is a clandestine, rogue Lodge not recognized by any Grand Lodge. Most irregular Lodges don't follow the basic tenets or regulations of the Fraternity. Thus are they not recognized.

What about those Masons that work within the government? I work for the military. So what? Masons come from all walks of life.

Freemasonry isn't politic nor does it hold specific leanings in ideology nor is politics (along with religion) allowed to be discussed within the Lodge. It stands for goodness, plain and simple. It charges you to be a good citizen, but that doesn't mean pro-establishment. Plus, I know several Brothers who are very liberal.

I wasn't meaning it to be a bribe, and it would be a far stretch to prove it. I was asking to prove that privacy is needed and acceptable. I don't go yelling out my banking information or any personal information, as it is personal.
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