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  #11  
Old 09-26-2005, 02:50 PM
Finn Finn is offline
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Default Re: Video On The Origens Of The Illuminati/Mason Movement. "The Lightbringers" By Juri Lina.


Hi all,

I am a new comer in the forum. It is nice to be here and follow many of the interesting posts.

I would like to comment on the quote from H. Blavatsky.

Quote:
And now it stands proven that Satan, or the Red Fiery Dragon, the "Lord of Phosphorus," and Lucifer, or "Light-Bearer," is in us: it is our Mind–our tempter and Redeemer, our intelligent liberator and Saviour from pure animalism. (Secret Doctrine Vol. 2, p. 513)
One understands the quote better when one sees Lucifer and Satan as different entities. So Satan is one being and Lucifer another.

In a masonic tradition Lucifer is not entirely negative power. It has gotten its evil flavour from some christian writers along the history who have started to use the name Lucifer as a name of the Devil.

Even if there would be Luciferian worship in Masonic orders it is not accurate to assume that it is automatically devil worship.

Surely there is loosely Satanic masonic orders as well, like the notorious O.T.O.

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  #12  
Old 09-26-2005, 03:49 PM
Stranger Stranger is offline
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Default Re: Video On The Origens Of The Illuminati/Mason Movement. "The Lightbringers" By Juri Lina.

Finn, are you saying that Satan and Lucifer are different entities? From what I have studied from Blavatsky, it seems apparanent he is one and the same. From a biblical standpoint, both terms difinitely refer to the same entity.

Finn, your starting to worry me a bit, your joking, right?? Talk to me, clarify.
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  #13  
Old 09-27-2005, 02:33 AM
Finn Finn is offline
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Default Re: Video On The Origens Of The Illuminati/Mason Movement. "The Lightbringers" By Juri Lina.

Hi Stranger,

It is true that Lucifer in a biblical point of view is connected to Satan and appears in the myths as one and the same character.

However, Lucifer, the light-bearer - the one that brings the light- referred in the bible originally to a 'morning star' which was used as an allegory of the king of the Babylon. That in the book of Isiah is - as far as I have understood - is the only mention of 'Lucifer' in the bible.

Lucifer and the Devil were melted into a one character around the 1st century BC.

The name 'light bearer' was not seen to fit the character of the Devil, so they (St. Jerome) changed it to 'Satan' that derives from Hebrew origin meaning 'the enemy'. However Lucifer as a 'morning star' stayed in the bible.

Blavatsky was the primus motor for theosophy. The cosmology of theosophy I myself find quite complex as well as their demonology.

As far as I have understood, Christ is seen as the ultimate good in the cosmos. On the other side we have Lucifer, the spirit of the heavens and - and this is the interesting bit - another devlish being, this time of the earth - Satan ('Ahriman', which is sometimes used. This name has a Persian origin.)

Now the purpose of life according to theosophy is to develop spiritually. In this one needs help from the spirit of the heavens, Lucifer.

Lucifer becomes devil-like if one consertrates too much on one's own personal spiritual development and forgets the good deeds inspired by Christ.

Also in the quote from Blavastky, it is said that Lucifer should save us from animalism, from the Satan (Ahriman), the evil spirit of the earth.

It all sounds like a $2 fantasy book, doesn't it?

I hope this clears a bit what I ment in my previous post, Stranger. Even in the biblical sense all different devils are one and the same entity, historically they might have different origin.

So if a theosophist prays Lucifer to help her to gain knowledge from the higher worlds, it is for her spiritual development. And the more spiritually developed you are, the more Christ-like you are.

That's why I say theosophic cosmology is complex.

Please note, the above does not necessarily reflect my personal believes.
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  #14  
Old 09-27-2005, 02:52 AM
Shannow Shannow is offline
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Default Re: Video On The Origens Of The Illuminati/Mason Movement. "The Lightbringers" By Juri Lina.

stranger,
my Grandad was a mason...would gert his family to test him with a bunch of words on a list.

They'd read them, he'd say "yep, I know that".

after he died, his friends came around to pick up the apparel, books, and locked bag.
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  #15  
Old 09-27-2005, 03:10 AM
truebeliever truebeliever is offline
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Default Re: Video On The Origens Of The Illuminati/Mason Movement. "The Lightbringers" By Juri Lina.

Yes, a close friend had the same thing with his Father. When they buried his father a stranger came up at the last minute and threw something into the grave. Not thinking clearly he let it go not realising it was a Mason thing. He has never forgiven himself for not throwing it back out and shoving it down the persons throat.
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  #16  
Old 09-27-2005, 04:12 AM
nomad nomad is offline
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Default Re: Video On The Origens Of The Illuminati/Mason Movement. "The Lightbringers" By Juri Lina.

Quote:
truebeliever wrote:
"The Lightbringers". A film by Juri Lina. An excellent presentation on the origins of the Illuminati/Mason movement and their longings for power through subterfuge and deceit. And not a Shape Shifting Lizard in sight! Thank the Lord! 28meg WMV File.

www.members.iinet.net.au/~falluga
Excellent video TB ... you should get your own

site because you have alot to offer us !
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  #17  
Old 09-27-2005, 04:14 AM
Shannow Shannow is offline
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Default Re: Video On The Origens Of The Illuminati/Mason Movement. "The Lightbringers" By Juri Lina.

and start a subscription broadband service...300MB only goes so far.
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  #18  
Old 09-27-2005, 04:33 AM
truebeliever truebeliever is offline
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Default Re: Video On The Origens Of The Illuminati/Mason Movement. "The Lightbringers" By Juri Lina.

Quote:
Excellent video TB ... you should get your own

site because you have alot to offer us !
Well gee shucks...i would definately take all the credit but DRAK did send me the video...gracious ar'nt I? Only because he comes to this site...

Thanx for the tip NOMAD...that hosting service sounds too good to be true! 20 gig and unlimited bandwidth for $15 Oz a month. Will definately look into shortly.
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  #19  
Old 09-27-2005, 05:33 AM
Saturnino Saturnino is offline
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Default Re: Video On The Origens Of The Illuminati/Mason Movement. "The Lightbringers" By Juri Lina.

Being Luciferian is not something so unusual, if we think about it. All the New Agers, maybe 50% of the population now in several stages, are ! They think Satan is an invention of Jehovah to make his equal, Lucifer, look bad, that it was invented in the 1st century. The Bible says clearly that Satan is Lucifer and that he was created, never an equal to Jesus.

When the Masons ask for light, and then for more light, they are indeed asking for the so-called light bearer. Lucifer for them is a great source of light, a source of wisdom. There are several occult organizations here in Brazil that teach that too...when the person can be "trusted" then they say that this Satan stuff is just a myth, that people in the antiquity who worshipped Lucifer were just worshipping wisdom and light. But since nobody will understand this, much less the prejudiced Christian, we better be quiet about it. This is the essence of gnosticism, if we think about it.

The few who become Satanists are the ones with enough curiosity and hunger for power. They are told that if you REALLY want to understand the universe's secrets, you have to know the dark side. This wouldn't be a problem, because darkness and light are just the same thing...only Christians can't recognize that. Then they start dabbling with the "horned God". In Wicca, it works the same way. Next thing you see, you are sacrificing children and thinking you are doing them a favor.

And it all starts with this "Lucifer and Satan are different guys".
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  #20  
Old 09-27-2005, 08:24 AM
Finn Finn is offline
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Default Re: Video On The Origens Of The Illuminati/Mason Movement. "The Lightbringers" By Juri Lina.

Many of the central teachings in theosophy are indeed in the grey area.

Have you read any books by Paolo Coelho, Saturnino?
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