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  #41  
Old 09-28-2005, 02:42 PM
Finn Finn is offline
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Default Re: Video On The Origens Of The Illuminati/Mason Movement. "The Lightbringers" By Juri Lina.


There seems to be some fire in the air... Hope it is not accompanied with a smell of sulphur...

I see Christ as a great teacher. I real brearer of the light. There is other great teachers as well. Maybe Dalai Lama could one modern one.

But I always felt there is something dubious in Blavatsky's person. A bit like in Aleister Crowley's who still has many followers, even amongst the Christians, despite his openly Anti-Christ agenda!

However, I have a question. What is the relationship between NWO and New Age movement? For some people here in the CC, it seems, they share the same goal. I considered the hawks and tycoons in the PNAC and such more near to the practises of NWO ideals than dreamy New Age croud.

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  #42  
Old 09-28-2005, 02:53 PM
Saturnino Saturnino is offline
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Default Re: Video On The Origens Of The Illuminati/Mason Movement. "The Lightbringers" By Juri Lina.

The answer is always Hegelian dialectics. You put very evil guys on one side (Bush and co.), representing Christian values and the old way of doing things and extreme new age values on the other side. The result is some kind of compromise: world government, UN rule, a world religion, etc. But from the start, both sides were controlled and directed by the same guys. The role of new age is to water down and neutralize Christian values like absolute morality, monotheism, dependency on God, etc.
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  #43  
Old 09-28-2005, 03:14 PM
Finn Finn is offline
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Default Re: Video On The Origens Of The Illuminati/Mason Movement. "The Lightbringers" By Juri Lina.

Interesting, Saturnino, I never looked at it from that point of view.

Bush and his kind certainly are eating grounds from Christianity but of course so are the "you are God" folks of the New Age circles.

If humans were divine what's the use to dwell on earth?

Here in Europe it is quite fascinating but also scary to follow the development of EU. Here the control has been achieved by economic arragements made by the leading elite inspired by something not very peaceful and loving if you ask me.

Luckily The Constitution of EU was turned down by the people of the Neatherlands and France. Now they are trying to change the law that such intervention of expression of freedom will never happen again.
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  #44  
Old 09-28-2005, 03:26 PM
Draken Draken is offline
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Default Re: Video On The Origens Of The Illuminati/Mason Movement. "The Lightbringers" By Juri Lina.

Sat, I've said it before and say it again: I'm not asking for anything.

What are the crazy interpretations I come up with, Sat? I'm quoting the same words Stranger quotes from the Bible and applying them literally. I'm just trying to illustrate that your interpretations are "self-evidences" to you only. There's nothing "New Age" about interpreting texts; you do it, I do it. My understanding of the Bible are different from your understanding, because of my EXPERIENCES.

It seems ridiculous that I would have to say that I know perfectly well what Jesus' words were and what is generally accepted is meant by them. But like in politics or modern sience, what seems to happen is that a theory which ceases to be questioned and is generally decided upon to be "right" and "self-evident" without criticism becomes "true" and "fact" very quickly based on some sort of democratic decision taken by those who all agree with eachother, and on the basis of that "fact" then think they are in the right to dismiss others who don't agree with them. This in fact is the POLITICALLY CORRECTNESS everyone on this forum is so quick to agree with eachother to be the very evil they abhore and fight.

Your Discovery story is very cute, but it's got nothing to do with anything. It's impossible to refer to that story and imply that, based on that story, I should say I don't believe in Christ at all.

God gave Man Christianity. God also gave man the Ancient Vedic religion, Hinduism, Buddhism and Islam.

You didn't address my points that Christianity is one of the newest religions compared to the Vedic one, and therefore could be understood as a genuine New Age religion. Any comments?

Taking Christianity - instead of leaving it - does not force me to reject the wisdom of other religions.

I don't care if you think that's a "New Age" belief of not.

You guys sure bring out the "pagan" in me! :-D

Harsh words.

Don't choke on a pretzel, Stranger&Sat.

"Christianity is at the root of the evil that has corrupted the West. This is the truth, and it does not admit uncertainty.

In its frenetic subversion of every hierarchy, in its exaltation of the weak, the disinherited, those without lineage and without tradition; in its call to "love", to "believe", and to yield; in its rancor toward everything that is force, self-sufficiency, knowledge, and aristocracy; in its intolerant and proselytising fanaticism, Christianity poisoned the greatness of the Roman Empire. Enemy of itself and of the world, this dark and barbarous wave remains the principal cause of the West's decline.

Christianity - take note - is not to be confused with what passes today for the Christian religion: a dead stump cut off from the initial profound impulses. Having disrupted the unity of Rome, Christianity first infected the race of blonde Germanic barbarians, thanks to the Reformation, and then penetrated so deeply, tenaciously, and invisibly that it infused current European liberalism and democratism and all the other splendid fruits of the French Revolution up through anarchism and Bolshevism. Christianity today informs the very structure of modern society (typified by the Anglo-Saxon model) as well as modern science, law, illusory faith in technology's power. The latter are permeated by the will to equalize, the will to numbers; by the hatred of hierarchy, quality and difference; and by a collective and impersonal vision of society, a society based upon bonds between mutually inadequate men, worthy of a race of slaves in revolt."

...

"Without a return to such a [pagan] tradition, no liberation will be possible, no true restoration, no transfer of spirit, power, and empire into the realm of values. But let not our "anti" give rise to misunderstandings. They [Christians], not we, are forces of negation. They are the ones who sapped Rome, contaminated Wisdom, and destroyed aristocracy in the name of a reign of sentimentalism and humanitarianism ruled by "enemies of the world". And they did so in order to exalt a superstition according to which God is an executed man and enslaver of other men whom he condemns to damnation unless "grace" intervenes on their behalf. No more foolish or absurd fable has ever been devised than that which treats paganism as a synonym for materiliaty and corruption, while Christianity is, instead, associated with purity and spirituality. Yet this superstition still manages to inform so much contemporary thinking!"
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/integral_tradition/medit.html">Julius Evola</a>
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Three things are sacred to me: first Truth, and then, in its tracks, primordial prayer; Then virtue–nobility of soul which, in God walks on the path of beauty. Frithjof Schuon
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  #45  
Old 09-28-2005, 03:40 PM
Saturnino Saturnino is offline
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Default Re: Video On The Origens Of The Illuminati/Mason Movement. "The Lightbringers" By Juri Lina.

Draken,

the essence of Christianity is the cross, God coming as a man and dying for the sins of those who believe in Him. The rest, love, charity, etc., can be found in a dozen other religions.

Saying that you accept Christianity without the cross is the same to say that you cheer for Real Madrid soccer team because you like their shirt, but you really don't care who wins the game when they play. You only like some words of Christ, that's all. I'm ok with that.

But saying that Christianity promoted the decline of the West...come on. Man, I don't know where to start, this is trash of trash of philosophy. Christianity brought a sense of order in the universe, that allowed for the development of sciences. Scientists could try to find meaning in the universe because they believed in a rational God who created the universe. Not to mention the advances in human dignity, politics and law. You should read Francis Schaeffer.

This is a good example of the crazy attacks that you post here: I don't know what kind of thing you have been reading, and where you get those quotes, but it surely sounds like the Nietzchian superman / Nazi philosophy, saying that love and regard for the weak are bad things. This is basically the NWO reasoning to kill us peasants, and maybe that's why some people think you are a NWO agent.

Can you see the similarity ?
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  #46  
Old 09-28-2005, 03:41 PM
Stranger Stranger is offline
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Default Re: Video On The Origens Of The Illuminati/Mason Movement. "The Lightbringers" By Juri Lina.

This conversation with you Drak is getting weirder and weirder (or is that just my interpretation, perhaps)

Am I going to go back and look at “Drak’s” history of thought on religion before I reply to a comment that you made me? Seriously, Drak, are you listening to yourself?

The only words that I am going to comment on are the ones you wrote in this thread. I QUOTED YOU WORD FOR WORD MAN, WHAT ARE YOU COMPLAING ABOUT? Did I quote you incorrectly? You made some bold statements (good for you, no problem with it) about Christians and how they behave and Jesus. Your were rebutted using your own stinkin quotes, and then you pull this “well you should have researched my past writings to know what I really think” What is that all about?

To review
1) We were talking about the Illuminati and you change the topic 180 degrees to “we don’t talk about God enough”
2) You went on to make some bold statements THAT I QUOTED BACK TO YOU WORD FOR WORD in rebuttal, and your defense is go back and look at your previous writings, because that is really how you feel. What??????????????? I could give a flip about that past stuff, we are discussing what you just wrote!

Quote:
So you mean to say that you have to go through Jesus' body and out his back to get to his father, Joseph? That is what Jesus said, that's what the Bible says, right that's what the words mean according to you, right? And why would I want to come to Jesus' father, Joseph? Because Joseph IS Jesus' father, right? He WAS born of Joseph and Mary, right? I mean, it is a really simple, straightforward meaning, Stranger. Read the words again.
Wow, that is amazing stuff, dont know how to respond to that. This next comment is not about you personally Drak, but your thought listed above: That attempt of debate, or more fittingly intellectual masturbation, was so inept, so delayed, that is does not even constitute stupidity. Drak, you have far more resources and intellect to submit that response, your IQ is probably 50 points higher than mine. We will just pretend that quote did not happen.

Quote:
Well, it's not me saying it, it's Frithjof Schuon
Did you say Frithjof Schuon, well that a different story then. Frithjof Freakin Schuon? I can see it now, standing face to face with Jesus on Judgement Day and I will say "sorry Lord I did not believe you, you see there is the Frithjof Schuon guy, and well he wrote 20 books, and his view of spirituality was much more palatable than Yours" Good neighbor Drak.
Thanks for rattling my cage Drak, your helping me to shake of the ol cob webs.
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  #47  
Old 09-28-2005, 03:48 PM
Finn Finn is offline
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Default Re: Video On The Origens Of The Illuminati/Mason Movement. "The Lightbringers" By Juri Lina.

Draken,

I would like to comment the quotes you wrote.

Christianity and respecting Christ can be two different things.

Bible and Christ are a dilemma, I feel, because, as far as we know, Christ never wrote anything himself (apart once on sand). In the bible there is only four books that tell about Christ, the gospels. The rest in the New Testament are written by Paul who never met Christ. And of couse the book of Revelations in the end written by John.

We do not know a lot of him and that always gives space for misundestandings.

Christ was a very unique person. He thought that one should love not only one's friend but also enemy. At the time that was quite revolutional. It still is, I think. And difficult, too. Look at the blood-thristy "Christian" GW Bush.
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  #48  
Old 09-28-2005, 03:59 PM
Saturnino Saturnino is offline
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Default Re: Video On The Origens Of The Illuminati/Mason Movement. "The Lightbringers" By Juri Lina.

Finn,

Christ said to the apostles that He had much more to tell, but they couldn't bear it. He then promised the Holy Spirit would come to teach them, as a continuation of His ministry. That's why we respect the words of the apostles as inspired by Jesus Himself. Jesus gave them the authority.

In the same reasoning, Paul met Jesus, when He was ressurected and was instructed by Him for 3 years in Arabia. The apostles themselves doubted that at first, but when they knew about the mighty miracles and the powerful testimony that Paul was giving, they accepted him and his authority as apostolic.

John also received the book of Revelations from Jesus Himself, as is stated in the text.
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  #49  
Old 09-28-2005, 04:12 PM
Finn Finn is offline
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Default Re: Video On The Origens Of The Illuminati/Mason Movement. "The Lightbringers" By Juri Lina.

Saturnino,

I do not want to deny the significance of the apostles. They were His companions and documented His doings on earth.

Conserning Paul I wanted to say that we have only Paul's word that he met Christ whereas the other apostles have each other's word to prove it.
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  #50  
Old 09-28-2005, 04:12 PM
Draken Draken is offline
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Default Re: Video On The Origens Of The Illuminati/Mason Movement. "The Lightbringers" By Juri Lina.

Wow - civilized discourse! I'm touched.

Watch and learn, Sat&Stranger.

Yeah, Finn, good points.

I could go on about Paul, I have a few questions about his motives. I'll leave it for now though. Maybe pick it up later.

What about all those scrolls and books NOT included in the Bible? Why not? Who decided? Why? What was in them that so did not fit with the plans of the early Church Fathers? Why were they considered so controversial that they needed to be suppressed and miscredited?

Does it not in fact look more like Christianity was subverted from the start?

Many of the Dead Sea Scrolls I hear are contemporary with Jesus. Are those considered forgeries by "true" Christians or are they applying their "correct" interpretations on the texts? I haven't read them (I'll definately read them) but I hear they give a completely different view of what the early Christian cult really was like and what it taught.

Regarding Bush, he's no more Christian than those Pakistanis or Arabs raping Western women are Muslims.

There's an ocean of issues to discuss on the topic of Christianity and Christ. If one is allowed to discuss openly, that is. :-)

Ciao for now, Finn.
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Three things are sacred to me: first Truth, and then, in its tracks, primordial prayer; Then virtue–nobility of soul which, in God walks on the path of beauty. Frithjof Schuon
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