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  #11  
Old 10-06-2005, 08:41 AM
Ahmad Ahmad is offline
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Default Re: So what is up with 'Insider' from that other forum?


peace,


Quote:
The One has many manifestations/emanations/characteristics which are present in a hierarchy of beings with different workings but operating together.
This Insider is truthfull i guess, which doesn't mean he presented the truth!

His knowledge of the "higher beings" (the Jinn beings) is apparently deep enough to tell us whom he serves.

He has knowledge of the One god, but he fails to understand his real purpose, he is confused eventhough he appears confident.

For instance, while he truthfully says that Jesus, Muhammad..etc are not to be worshipped, he fails to acknowledge that they are messengers from God, he even claims that they were controlled by his kind, he is still stuck in the disinformation (illusions) of his tribe.

He as always the case with the Jinn beings still attributes divinity, power to his bretheren or as he calls them the "higher beings".

Sincere, maybe, but still has a lot to learn, and the first lesson he should learn is to be humble and surrender the steering wheel to his human companion.

[18:103] Say, "Shall I tell you who the worst losers are?

[18:104] "They are the ones whose works in this life are totally astray, but they think that they are doing good."

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  #12  
Old 10-06-2005, 08:41 AM
freeman freeman is offline
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Default Re: So what is up with 'Insider' from that other forum?

Quote:
The scene is set for temper tantrums and fevers running high, especially from religious literalists stuck in their dogmatic, mental prisons created by themselves, who are not thinking their own thoughts but the thoughts dictated to them by their respective dogma of choice.

Read closer, Draken.
We've got a guy talking in esoteric circles here, running hot and cold, as DC observes.
Sure, he knows about all of the world's religions, and yes, he is trying to combine them all with some sort of spiritual alchemy...hmm, who mote that remind us of?
My own release from dogmatic, spiritual prison occurred when I learned to recognize this sophistry for what it is.
Please don't misunderstand. You are a very intelligent, educated individual whose insight I value and with whom I could probably never compete on an intellectual level.
Those who go around trying to make everyone happy, to be all things to all people, are usually just trying to fool as many people as possible.
This guy isn't trying to sell anything that you can't get from the Freemasons, Illuminati, OTO or any of the New Age occultists. If he respected all of these different belief systems' independent paths to salvation, as you infer, then he wouldn't start out by disprespecting Jesus and the other leading figures of those belief systems.
Borrow a little from every faith while subtly devaluing and excising all of the spiritual leaders associated with those religions, then substitute a universal belief system emphasizing the perfection of man to godlike status...who wrote this instruction manual? :-o
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  #13  
Old 10-06-2005, 10:49 AM
truebeliever truebeliever is offline
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Default Re: So what is up with 'Insider' from that other forum?

The guy is simply boring. I briefly perused his offering then continued to read my magazine of choice detailing that Tom and his new teeny bopper girlfriend have begotton a child...aparently via immaculate conception as Tom is sterile.

After finishing my Blueberry muffin and mug of flat white coffee i decided i must look closer as with all the hullabaloo i thought i had missed something.

I returned home and noted on my walk that an awful lot of nubile young 16 year old women were out and about on school holidays and I cursed God for allowing my virile teenage years to intersect with the AIDS scare.

I then proceeded to begin a point by point mocking of him purely out of jealousy that I had'nt thought up such a simple scam to entertain myself pretending to be someone of importence...then i realised he had dribbled so much I could be their all day and possibly into the night or at least late into the evening.

Yawn...
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  #14  
Old 10-06-2005, 10:51 AM
igwt igwt is offline
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Default Re: So what is up with 'Insider' from that other forum?

The key to it is that Insider stated. 'Works' not 'Faith' as the central point to ascention.
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  #15  
Old 10-06-2005, 10:56 AM
truebeliever truebeliever is offline
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Default Re: So what is up with 'Insider' from that other forum?

Quote:
The key to it is that Insider stated. 'Works' not 'Faith' as the central point to ascention.
Martin Luthar too, and a couple of hundred other Church officials and another guy who "alledgedly" existed 2000 years ago all said that too and even me and a guy i met down the beach who asked to borrow $2 off me. :lol:

As you can see...i just dont "see it" as anything profound...that has'nt been said before.

The person writing has nothing to do with the Elite. Goto Liberty Forum and find 50 people, some Uni professors of history etc, who could write this stuff.

The "Owners" of the planet do not come to whacko conspiracy forums. They have a planet to run.
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  #16  
Old 10-06-2005, 11:18 AM
psholtz psholtz is offline
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Default Re: So what is up with 'Insider' from that other forum?

Quote:
fra_nothing wrote:
P.S. Oh, man...I just realized something. How could I be so dumb.

You know why we have problems taking this guy seriously? Because we really know nothing about him. He might be the real deal. But we'll never know.
Yes, this is true.. People were asking him too many questions about too many subjects that were either (a) too advanced for them to understand the answers to; or (b) simply the products of their own imagination, and therefore Insider had no answers for them.

Had people asked him more normal (serious) questions, it would have been easier for them to take his answers more seriously..
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  #17  
Old 10-06-2005, 11:24 AM
truebeliever truebeliever is offline
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Default Re: So what is up with 'Insider' from that other forum?

psholtz...

I am insider.
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  #18  
Old 10-06-2005, 11:37 AM
Draken Draken is offline
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Default Re: So what is up with 'Insider' from that other forum?

Quote:
freeman wrote:
Quote:
The scene is set for temper tantrums and fevers running high, especially from religious literalists stuck in their dogmatic, mental prisons created by themselves, who are not thinking their own thoughts but the thoughts dictated to them by their respective dogma of choice.

Read closer, Draken.
We've got a guy talking in esoteric circles here, running hot and cold, as DC observes.
Sure, he knows about all of the world's religions, and yes, he is trying to combine them all with some sort of spiritual alchemy...hmm, who mote that remind us of?
My own release from dogmatic, spiritual prison occurred when I learned to recognize this sophistry for what it is.
Please don't misunderstand. You are a very intelligent, educated individual whose insight I value and with whom I could probably never compete on an intellectual level.
Those who go around trying to make everyone happy, to be all things to all people, are usually just trying to fool as many people as possible.
This guy isn't trying to sell anything that you can't get from the Freemasons, Illuminati, OTO or any of the New Age occultists. If he respected all of these different belief systems' independent paths to salvation, as you infer, then he wouldn't start out by disprespecting Jesus and the other leading figures of those belief systems.
Borrow a little from every faith while subtly devaluing and excising all of the spiritual leaders associated with those religions, then substitute a universal belief system emphasizing the perfection of man to godlike status...who wrote this instruction manual? :-o
Fair points, freeman.

I never said this guy is right, I just stated that he discusses issues I'm familiar with from studying Buddhism, Hinduism, Sufism and not from studying the sources you mentioned, like Freemasons, Illuminati, OTO, etc. I never studied New Age as such; I always went as close to a source as possible. The fact that the New Age movement uses elements from Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, etc., doesn't mean that those components are in themselves New Age. You do yourself a great favour if you study each religion separately. Then you have a chance to 1) glean genuine knowledge from each tradition; and 2) recognize the elements the New Age wants to manipulate and combine from the different traditions, to create their Universal Religion.

I suppose your refering to me when you insinuate that "someone" would want to combine all religions into one. :lol:

I understand why you would think that.

But I never meant that. My point is to recognize the universal spiritual elements present in all these spiritual systems, NOT to mix them all into one "universal religion".

But like true has said to me before: I should make up my mind a choose ONE to follow, after all: they are all more or less right. In my opinion.
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  #19  
Old 10-06-2005, 11:48 AM
igwt igwt is offline
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Default Re: So what is up with 'Insider' from that other forum?

From Watchman Expositor:



James Vs. Paul: Salvation by Grace or by Works?

James Walker

Is salvation by faith in Christ alone or in faith plus works?

This is one of the most important questions that must be answered when Christians witness to those in the cults.

Almost uniformly, cults teach that salvation is obtained through a combination of a person's faith plus works.

In other words, the cults will almost always teach that eternal life is based at least in part on doing a certain list of good deeds or serving the organization with time or money.

The challenge for the Christian, is to convince them to stop trusting their own good works or obedience for salvation and to put all of their faith and trust in Jesus alone for eternal life.

Often a Christian will rightly turn to the Apostle Paul's words in Ephesians 2:8-10, Titus 3:5, or Romans chapters three and four to document the Biblical doctrine of salvation through faith alone.

But, at this point almost every cult member -- whether Mormon, Jehovah's Witness, Worldwide Church of God, etc -- will turn to the book of James to defend their belief that works are necessary for salvation.
The Clash of the Apostles

Paul says that God is the, "...justifier of him which believeth in Jesus ...By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law" (Romans 3:26-28).

However James states, "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only" (James 2:24).

When witnessing to someone in a cult, Christians should be prepared to deal with this apparent contradiction. The nature of the Gospel hinges on a proper understanding of the relationship of faith and works in salvation.
Justification by Faith

The major theme of Paul's letters is that salvation is a totally free gift -- not earned by good works, rituals, or obeying laws. Eternal life is by grace through faith.

In Romans chapters three and four alone, Paul states this principle no fewer than fifteen times. A few examples are:

"Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight...." (Rom. 3:19).

"But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested...." (3:20).

"Being justified freely by his grace...." (3:24).

"...Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness" (4:3).

"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justified the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." (4:5).

"...God imputeth righteousness without works" (4:6).

Therefore it is of faith that it might by grace...." (4:15).
Justification by Works?

However, when turning to James one finds what appears at first to be a direct contradiction. James states:

"...though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?" (James 2:14).

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone...." (2:17).

"But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?" (2:20).

"Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (2:24).

This apparent conflict between the two epistles has caused confusion on the part of many Christians when cult members point to James as "proof" that one must earn salvation.

As one commentator, Dr. D. Edmond Hiebert, observes, "This paragraph [James 2:14-26] is one of the most difficult, and certainly the most misunderstood, sections in the epistle.

"It has been a theological battle ground; James often has been understood as contradicting Paul's teaching that salvation is by faith alone apart from works" (The Epistle of James, D. Edmond Hiebert, p. 174).

Reformer Martin Luther, the champion of salvation through faith alone sola fide, once even called the book of James "a right strawy epistle" because of this difficult passage (ibid).

While some critics may even point to this as an example of the Bible contradicting itself, a close examination shows no contradiction between Romans and James -- both Paul and James were teaching the same Gospel.
What Kind of Faith?

In different contexts, the words belief or faith can mean a number of various things.

Someone may say, "I believe we will have rain tomorrow." This kind of belief is simply expressing an opinion or fact.

This type of belief, even when applied to religious truths, is not the kind of faith that saves. The devils believe that there is one God (a true Biblical fact) but this is not saving faith (James 2:19).

It is only agreeing with a fact such as someone who believes two plus two equals four.

As James Adamson points out the word faith (pisteuo) "...is used sometimes to mean mere intellectual belief in God's existence, a faith which even the devils share. (The Epistle of James, The New International Commentary on the New Testament p. 125.

It is this type of faith that James is attacking.

He rightly points out that one can distinguish between this type of "dead" faith and saving faith.

Saving faith will produce a changed life. A person who is saved is trusting Christ alone for their salvation, not their works (ie Romans).

However, once saved by grace alone, a true Christian will want to practice good works such as feeding the poor (ie James). Not to earn salvation -- which they already have -- but because they are saved. (see Ephesians 2:8-10).

John Calvin reduce this principle to a sentence: "Faith alone justifies, but the faith which justifies is not alone" (The Principles of Theology, p. 61).

James is warning of a belief in facts -- a type of faith that never results in a changed life.

Saving faith comes when someone stops trusting their own goodness or work (Phil. 2:8) and puts all their trust in Christ for salvation. And this type of faith will naturally exhibit good works.
Two Deadly Kinds of Faith

Paul and James were defending two different errors.

As one author explains, "They are not antagonists facing each other with crossed swords; they stand back to back, confronting different foes of the Gospel" (Alexander Ross, The Epistles of James and John, p. 53).

James was warning of the wrong kind of faith -- that is mere intellectual assent or belief in facts. Even if these facts are true, this type of faith can not save.

Paul's concern is over a different error. Faith with the wrong object. Paul was addressing those who were trusting in their own works or obedience rather than trusting Christ alone for salvation.

This kind of faith -- faith in works -- does produce a changed life. Like the Pharisees, people who believe that works are necessary for salvation are zealous to perform these works.

But neither faith in facts nor faith in works saves.

For both Paul and James, true salvation is found in believing, trusting, and having faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross alone for salvation.

This type of faith, true faith, will result in two things: eternal life and a desire to do good works.
WHICH WORKS SAVE?

The list of works necessary for salvation varies from cult to cult. A cult member will often feel that their eternal life is based on all or some of the following:

* Donating money or tithes
* Participation in secret rituals
* Abstaining from certain foods or beverages
* Spending hours each month fund-raising
* (through literature distribution, or
* the selling of trinkets or flowers)
* Recruitment of new members
* Observing certain holy days
* Not observing certain holy days or holidays
* Obeying the Ten Commandments and/or other laws
* Baptism by the organization
* Maintaining membership in the group
* Abstaining from medical treatments
* Purchasing the programs or literature needed for enlightenment
* Loyalty and obedience to superiors
* Limiting contact with former members or others outside the group

Although some of the items on this list are worthy goals that Christians should be involved in, none of these help gain eternal life. Salvation is a free gift (Titus 3:5). If someone is trusting any of these good deeds to help them earn salvation, they are not fully trusting Jesus as their Savior.Watchman Org
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  #20  
Old 10-06-2005, 11:48 AM
psholtz psholtz is offline
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Default Re: So what is up with 'Insider' from that other forum?

Quote:
truebeliever wrote:
psholtz...

I am insider.
Ye shall know them by the fruits they bear.. :-P
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