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Old 12-09-2004, 07:30 AM
Ahmad Ahmad is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 382
Default Re: Dis-info. II

To answer the second post of yours 55132, i will reply only to the Quranic verses you cited, as for the Hadith (Tabari,Muslim,Bukhari, Isaac..etc) quotes, they are good examples of Satan's brainwashing of the Muslims (however no brainwashing or mind control lasts with the sincere).

1- You cited the verse [4:3] which Satan propagates that it encourages Polygamy, here i will present the correct translation (translated by the messenger of the covenant Rashad Khalifa in the "Authorized english translation of Quran):

[4:3] If you deem it best for the orphans, you may marry their mothers - you may marry two, three, or four. If you fear lest you become unfair, then you shall be content with only one, or with what you already have. Additionally, you are thus more likely to avoid financial hardship.

And here i present you the article of late the messenger about Polygamy in his appendix 30 to the authorized translation:

Appendix 30
of the Authorized English translation of the Quran by Dr. Rashad Khalifa


(Polygamy was a way of life until the Quran was revealed 1400 years ago. When the earth was young and under-populated, polygamy was one way of populating it and bringing in the human beings needed to carry out God's plan.
By the time the Quran was revealed, the world had been sufficiently populated, and the Quran put down the first limitations against polygamy.
Polygamy is permitted in the Quran, but under strictly observed circumstances. Any abuse of this divine permission incurs severe retribution. Thus, although polygamy is permitted by God, it behooves us to examine our circumstances carefully before saying that a particular polygamous relationship is permissible.

Our perfect example here is the prophet Muhammad. He was married to one wife, Khadijah, until she died. He had all his children, except one, from Khadijah. Thus, she and her children enjoyed the Prophet's full attention for as long as she was married to him; twenty-five years.
For all practical purposes, Muhammad had one wife - from the age of 25 to 50. During the remaining 13 years of his life, he married the aged widows of his friends who left many children. The children needed a complete home, with a fatherly figure, and the Prophetprovided that. Providing a fatherly figure for orphans is the only specific circumstance in support of polygamy mentioned in the Quran (4:3).

Other than marrying widowed mothers of orphans, there were three political marriages in the Prophet's life. His close friends Abu Bakr and Omar insisted that he marry their daughters, Aisha and Hafsah, to establish traditional family ties among them. The third marriage was to Maria the Egyptian; she was given to him as a political gesture of friendship from the ruler of Egypt.

This perfect example tells us that a man must give his full attentionand loyalty in marriage to his wife and children in order to raise a happy and wholesome family. The Quran emphasizes the limitations against polygamy in very strong words:"If you fear lest you may not be perfectly equitable in treating more than one wife, then you shall be content with one." (4:3)
"You cannot be equitable in a polygamous relationship, no matter how hard you try." (4:129)

The Quranic limitations against polygamy point out the possibility of abusing God's law. Therefore, unless we are absolutely sure that God's law will not be abused, we had better resist our lust and stay away from polygamy. If the circumstances do not dictate polygamy, we had better give our full attention to one wife and one set of children.

The children's psychological and social well-being, especially in countries where polygamy is prohibited, almost invariably dictate monogamy. A few basic criteria must be observed in contemplating polygamy:

1. It must alleviate pain and suffering and not cause any pain or suffering.
2. If you have a young family, it is almost certain that polygamy is an abuse.
3. Polygamy to substitute a younger wife is an abuse of God's law (4:19). Rashad Khalifa P.hd


2- As for the next verse you cited:

[4:11] GOD decrees a will for the benefit of your children; the male gets twice the share of the female. If the inheritors are only women, more than two, they get two-thirds of what is bequeathed. If only one daughter is left, she gets one-half. The parents of the deceased get one-sixth of the inheritance each, if the deceased has left any children. If he left no children, and his parents are the only inheritors, the mother gets one-third. If he has siblings, then the mother gets one-sixth. All this, after fulfilling any will the deceased has left, and after paying off all debts. When it comes to your parents and your children, you do not know which of them is really the best to you and the most beneficial. This is GOD's law. GOD is Omniscient, Most Wise.

The design of God entails that the men are made responsible of their families, thus the daughter is taken care of by her husband. The messenger of the covenant also mentioned in a footnote to this verse: "However, Quran recommends in 2:180 that a will shall be left to conform with the specific circumstances of the deceased. For example, if the son is rich and the daughter is poor, one may leave a will giving the daughter everything, or twice as much as the son." Rashad khalifa Ph.D.


3- Then you blasphemed against God by saying:
"Qur’an 4:43 “Believers, approach not prayers with a mind befogged or intoxicated until you understand what you utter. Nor when you are polluted, until after you have bathed. If you are ill, or on a journey, or come from answering the call of nature, or you have touched a woman, and you find no water, then take for yourselves clean dirt, and rub your faces and hands. Lo! Allah is Benign, Forgiving.” [The Qur’an claims women are unclean and polluted—worse than dirt.]"

If it's out of ignorance perhaps God may forgive you, the above verse is twisted, here is the correct translation first:

[4:43] O you who believe, do not observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) while intoxicated, so that you know what you are saying. Nor after sexual orgasm without bathing, unless you are on the road, traveling; if you are ill or traveling, or you had urinary or fecal-related excretion (such as gas), or contacted the women (sexually), and you cannot find water, you shall observe Tayammum (dry ablution) by touching clean dry soil, then wiping your faces and hands therewith. GOD is Pardoner, Forgiver.

The Hadith books claim that women are unclean, it's always Satan who stresses the differences (gender, color, race, belief...etc) to create conflict and disharmony.


4- The next verse you cited is "the head scarf" verse!. This verse has been severly distorted by the satanic translators as per the translation you cite, my mother tongue is Arabic, and i know that the authorized translation of the messenger Rashad khalifa is the most correct (authorized by God).

satans' translation you cited(dis-info.):
Qur’an 33:59 “Prophet! Tell your wives and daughters and all Muslim women to draw cloaks and veils all over their bodies (screening themselves completely except for one or two eyes to see the way). That will be better.”

God's authorized translation: (the Truth)
[33:59] O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of the believers that they shall lengthen their garments. Thus, they will be recognized (as righteous women) and avoid being insulted. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

It is clear that there is no mention of the head scarf inthis verse, Satan distorted this verse to dupe millions to cover their heads!. The verse clearly talks about LENGTHENING THE GARMENTS. You may know how a mini-garment could draw the attention of men and distract us from righteousness and degrade women. The best garment recommended by God is the garment of righteousness. A modest dress will surely protect the dignity of women instead of the degradation by the media and the beauty contests that turn them into lifeless objects (idols rivaling God). Satan advocates extremes (Nudism, and total veiling), God advocvates the balanced, middle path, the path of righteousness.

You cited the following verse out of context,

Qur’an 24:31 “Say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty except what (must) appear; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display them except to their husbands...”

Here is the correct authorized translation of this verse, along with the verse preceeding it:
[24:30] Tell the believing men that they shall subdue their eyes (and not stare at the women), and to maintain their chastity. This is purer for them. GOD is fully Cognizant of everything they do.
[24:31] And tell the believing women to subdue their eyes, and maintain their chastity. They shall not reveal any parts of their bodies, except that which is necessary. They shall cover their chests, and shall not relax this code in the presence of other than their husbands, their fathers, the fathers of their husbands, their sons, the sons of their husbands, their brothers, the sons of their brothers, the sons of their sisters, other women, the male servants or employees whose sexual drive has been nullified, or the children who have not reached puberty. They shall not strike their feet when they walk in order to shake and reveal certain details of their bodies. All of you shall repent to GOD, O you believers, that you may succeed.

The verses protect the woman's dignity, the command of subduing the eyes from staring lustfully at women is what will prevent the society from moral breakdown (the command is also applicable to pornography), obsession and idolizing the beauty of women or men and inability to relate it to its creator is the direct result of staring at each other lustfully. A righteous society refrains from sexual lusts except within God's balanced system of marriage.


5- then you mention the verse of "health quarantine":


Qur’an 4:15 “If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death [by starvation] claims them.”

Here is the correct translation:

[4:15] Those who commit adultery among your women, you must have four witnesses against them, from among you. If they do bear witness, then you shall keep such women in their homes until they die, or until GOD creates an exit for them.

And here is the footnote of this verse explained by the messenger of the covenant Rashad khalifa:

(4:15 A woman witnessed by four people in the act of commiting adultery on four different occasions, with four different partners, represents a danger to public health. Such a woman is a depository of germs, and a health quarantine protects the society from her. A good example of an exit that saves a quarantined woman is marriage-someone may wish to marry her, and thus protect her and the society.) Rashad Khalifa Ph.D


6- Then you mention what you call {freedom to pimp card) !

You mentioned: Qur’an 24:33 “Force not your slave-girls to whoredom (prostitution) if they desire chastity, that you may seek enjoyment of this life. [And here’s the freedom-to-pimp card:] But if anyone forces them, then after such compulsion, Allah is oft-forgiving.”

First here is the correct translation:

[24:33] Those who cannot afford to get married shall maintain morality until GOD provides for them from His grace. Those among your servants who wish to be freed in order to marry, you shall grant them their wish, once you realize that they are honest. And give them from GOD's money that He has bestowed upon you. You shall not force your girls to commit prostitution, seeking the materials of this world, if they wish to be chaste. If anyone forces them, then GOD, seeing that they are forced, is Forgiver, Merciful.

Any sincere person would understand this as a command not to accept or promote prostitution ever for the chaste girls of the submitters families. If any wicked person forces them to prostitution, God, The Most Merciful will forgive the girls because of being forced.


7- Then you go to a popular accustaion to Quran:

Qur’an 24:2 For the woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication, flog each of them with a hundred stripes. Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah. And let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.”

Here is the correct translation:

[24:2] The adulteress and the adulterer you shall whip each of them a hundred lashes. Do not be swayed by pity from carrying out GOD's law, if you truly believe in GOD and the Last Day. And let a group of believers witness their penalty.

And here is the footnote to this verse by the messenger Rashad Khalifa from his authorized translation:
(24:2 Social pressure, i.e: public witnessing of the penalty, is the basic punishment, see also 5:38. The lashes shall be symbolic, not severe) Rashad Khalifa Ph.D

As for the wicked biased human beings, they will interpret it in violent terms, thus everyone is exposed, although they read the same book!


8- The last verse you cited was te following:

Qur’an 24:6 “And for those who launch a charge against their wives, accusing them, but have no witnesses or evidence, except themselves; let the testimony of one of them be four testimonies, (swearing four times) by Allah that he is the one speaking the truth.”

Again you took the verse out of context to prove your point that Quran is biased against women!

Here is the context:

[24:6] As for those who accuse their own spouses, without any other witnesses, then the testimony may be accepted if he swears by GOD four times that he is telling the truth.

[24:7] The fifth oath shall be to incur GOD's condemnation upon him, if he was lying.

[24:8] She shall be considered innocent if she swears by GOD four times that he is a liar.

[24:9] The fifth oath shall incur GOD's wrath upon her if he was telling the truth.

[24:10] This is GOD's grace and mercy towards you. GOD is Redeemer, Wise.

There is dis-information, and there is information, God guides the sincere to the Truth.

God\'s alternative, USN

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[3:19] The only religion approved by GOD is \"Submission.\"...
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Old 12-09-2004, 07:56 AM
marypopinz marypopinz is offline
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Default Re: Dis-information.

Anyone can quote the Bible and anyone can quote the Quran.

I am delighted regarded this heated debate and....

I am sick of this rediculous mentality of my God is better than yours!!!!!!!!!

My religion is better than yours is a bunch of Hoowie!

As my son would say, "Don't hate. Appreciate."

Both religions comes from days gone by when not one of us here were present. Both Holy books are a testament of faith. We are not at war with those who share faith. We are not at war with those who share God. We are at war with the Devil and he is a greedy bastid who is attacking the innocense of our youth.

I will make it clear once more. I worship God, not an idol. God. Jesus is my hero. If I could be half the woman that He is a man... The Holy Spirit flows through the heart of humanity.

Jesus is a light of compassion.

I have read the Bible and continue to do so. I also read the Quran.

Islam is fighting to protect their way of life from the West and rightly so! Western society is a sexual quagmire of greed, deception, and ignorance.

Maybe the Islam religion is scary to others because of their foreign customs. Christianity seems to want to paint them as completely oppressive to woman, and what does the Christian Western society do to a woman?

Send her out to work, make her a greedy bitch, praises her for messing up the family unit and abandoning the family. We as a Christian Canadian country sanction the homeless families that are how many? We as a Christian Canadian country have welcomed the pedophile, reward him with lenient to no sentences in minimum security facilities, only to release hinm to the community while the police cry, "There's a molester on the loose."

I say we set him free to prey on the children. Is this not one subject, children, that we as parents of both religions can agree on?

We need to protect the children and pray for each other. God has children of every race and every religion, all over the world.

Stop hating and appreciate the differences. Islam does not believe in interest on money. How far would these NWO jackasses have got if North America was a Moslem nation.

There is good and bad in everything. One mans cure is another man poison.

Peace be unto everyone
Peace be unto every child.
Peace :lol:

Mary XXX
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Old 12-09-2004, 08:18 AM
Daniel Daniel is offline
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Default Re: Dis-information.

Ahmad, your wisdom and patience is evident amongst us Jinn. I don't believe you have it all but more than most.

Mary, Right on, you go girl!
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Old 12-09-2004, 10:11 AM
55132 55132 is offline
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Default Re: Dis-information.


Many Muslims today are using what is called a “weak Hadith defense” to divert the criticism non-Muslims are heaping upon Muhammad based upon the behavior that is recorded in these ancient and traditional Islamic sources.

Muslim reformers don’t realize that a denial of the validity of the Sunnah amounts to a denial of the Holy Qur'an's claim that the prophethood of Muhammad (may peace be upon him) is a timeless example for Muslims to follow. By denying the Hadith, a Muslim denies that the Prophet Muhammad’s (may peace be upon him) words and deeds are the timeless expression of the Will of Allah. By denying the Hadith, Muslims are unable to believe in Muhammad or follow his orders as the Qur’an requires.

1.The Sahih Al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim collections are considered to be authentic historical records by orthodox Muslims. So, a weak Hadith defense is unjustified when these sources are used to critique Muhammad sayings and behavior.

2. A weak Hadith technically refers to the chain of narrators (isnad), reputation of the narrators, and the text of narration (matn). Even if there were a technical flaw in a Hadith, it does not necessarily mean that the Hadith is not an authentic one. Authenticity and weakness are two different concepts.

3.The Qur'an has less technical support for its authenticity than do many Hadith. Yet, the Qur’an is considered authentic by all traditional Muslims. So, if an historical saying must be rejected because it is technically weak, then much of the Qur'an would have to be rejected too. They were both collected, preserved, and passed on the same way and by the same people.

4.Some Muslims use the weak Hadith defense, because they approach Muhammad with their own wishful presuppositions. So, they automatically reject any Hadith that does not meet the standard of their uncritical assumptions. Our beliefs should be grounded in historical reality: not wishful thinking.

5.The third standard (matn) to judge the authenticity of a Hadith is an illegitimate standard. Present-day beliefs [read: unsubstantiated opinions] don't determine the events of the past. All Hadith compiled by Ishaq, Tabari, Bukhari, and Muslim had to be consistent with, or at least explain the Qur’an for them to be included in the original collections.

There is extensive historical information that can be ascertained about the life and teachings of Muhammad in the Hadith collections that were compiled from these ancient Muslim oral traditions. Some of the most valued collections of topically arranged Hadith were those collected by Bukhari, Dawud, and Muslim, who were ancient traditional Muslim scholars. The chronologically compiled collections of Ibn Ishaq and al-Tabari are the oldest in Islam. Their extensive collections provide detailed information on the thoughts and actions of Muhammad (may peace be upon him). These collections must be studied in order to understand Muhammad’s (may peace be upon him) life and teachings. In fact, these collections provide vastly more information on the life and teachings of Muhammad and thus the nature of Islam, than does the Qur’an itself.

However, when someone examines these accepted Hadiths, they find some accounts in which Muhammad displays unfavorable behavior or says thing which simply are not true. This foolishness, immoral or criminal behavior is an embarrassment to many Western Muslims who seek to defend Islam. So without thinking about the consequences, many Muslims seek to minimize these historical accounts by claiming that these Hadiths are weak; and, therefore, they should be ignored in discussion of Muhammad’s religion.

But, is this weak Hadith argument a legitimate defense of Muhammad’s (may peace be upon him) character? Or, is it a convenient ploy to divert the attention away from the unsavory words and deeds of Muhammad (may peace be upon him)? Why should the ancient writings of the great traditional Muslim scholars be set aside so conveniently whenever Muhammad’s (may peace be upon him) violent or deviant behavior is exposed from these scholarly, ancient, traditional, and authentic Muslim sources? If we must hide the truth for Muhammad to be believed, is he believable?

Now, it is true there were many Hadiths that were rejected by ancient traditional Muslim scholars. They rejected them because these traditions were fabricated (maudu’) for political reasons long after Muhammad died. But these were discarded long before the trusted collections were compiled. These fabricated Muslim traditions are very much like the apocryphal post-New Testament writings that appeared long after the genuine New Testament gospels were written. But it is clear that Ibn Ishaq, al-Bukhari, al-Tabari, Dawud, and Imam Muslim did not include maudu' Hadith within their collections. In fact, they applied stringent standards to assure that mandu' Hadith were excluded.

For an oral tradition to be accepted as sahih (sound), it must meet important requirements. And, if a tradition did not meet the requirements for a sahih Hadith, it was not accepted into the family of sahih Hadith by Ishaq, Tabari, Bukhari, Dawud, or Muslim. Therefore, the standard Hadith collections are considered by traditional Muslim scholarship to be sahih. Thus, it is unjustified to use a weak Hadith defense when a sahih Hadith is used to present the actions and teachings of Muhammad.

Literally means sahih means sound, healthy, and without fault. Firstly, to be a sahih Hadith (in the third Islamic century which would include Tabari, Bukhari, Muslim, and Dawud but not Ishaq as it was written earlier), the Hadith must have had a chain of transmission (isnad) in which there was no weakness. Each link of the chain must have been connected by a narrator who heard the narration from the prior link in the chain. The chain of narrators must have been an unbroken chain. Secondly, each individual narrator must have been a just (‘adl) Muslim of good reputation. Thirdly, the text (matn) of the Hadith must have been in accordance with orthodox Islamic teachings. That means that the matn of a sahih Hadith needed to be consistent with the Qur’an’s message, help explain the Qur’an, help explain Islam’s Five Pillars, or help establish Islamic customs, rituals, and laws.

Furthermore, Muslims accept the text of the Qur'an without hesitation. However, each ayah (verse) of the Qur'an is not based upon Mutawatir (multiple chains of corroborating narration continuous through history) isnad. So, why should a Hadith have to meet a higher standard of historical verification than the Qur'an itself?

When a Hadith meets all the proper qualifications for a sahih Hadith, it must be accepted by all Muslims. A sahih Hadith is an obligatory Hadith—it is the Prophet’s Sunnah. It must be acted upon according to the consensus of the Muslim scholarship. The sahih Hadith are those used as the sources of Islamic jurisprudence (Usul al-Fiqh). They are used as proof in cases involving Islamic Shari’ah law. They make our observance of Islam’s Five Pillars possible.

So, it is not legitimate for a Muslim who professes to follow the teachings and behavior of Muhammad to downplay sahih Hadith. These Hadith are not weak.

Furthermore, the fact that a Hadith is not a sahih Hadith does not mean that the Hadith is not a true report regarding Muhammad’s life. It simply means that, technically speaking, the isnad of the Hadith lacks the high standard required to be a sahih Hadith. So, even though a Hadith is technically weak, i.e., its isnad is not flawless, it may still be an authentic Hadith. Technically, a weak Hadith is not the same thing as a ‘forged’ (Maudu’) or fabricated Hadith.

Fabricated Hadith were not intentionally included in Burkhart's, Muslim’s, Ishaq’s, or Tabari’s collections. So, simply setting aside a Hadith as weak is only a statement regarding its isnad. It is not a statement that the traditions is a forged or a Maudu’ Hadith. The fact that a Hadith was included in Ishaq’s, Tabari’s, Bukhari’s or Muslim’s collection is evidence that the Hadith is an authentic one, even though its isnad may not meet the standard required to be a sahih Hadith. Ishaq was not only Muhammad’s (may peace be upon him) first biographer, he was the first Islamic scholar whose writings survive. Tabari was the first Muslim to write a commentary on the Qur’an. These men were the most learned Muslims of their day. So, the weak Hadith defense used against an unfavorable Hadith found in one of their collections that displays Muhammad's (may peace be upon him) immoral or criminal behavior is a really weak defense.

If a Muslim wants to deny the behavior or words attributable to Muhammad (may peace be upon him) found in the oldest Hadith collections, they must prove that the Hadith is not historically authentic while at the same time revealing an earlier, and more authentic Hadith, to support a different conclusion. Then they must explain how the unfavorable Hadith found their way into the oldest and most trusted collections while at the same time explaining away the contradiction, as internal contradiction is evidence that something isn’t true. And even then, we must be careful not to condemn any Hadith that is consistent with the teaching of the Qur’an. This is a much more difficult task.

Lastly, some Muslims disparage some Hadith because of their initial presuppositions regarding the sayings and behavior of Muhammad. For example, they uncritically assume that Muhammad was a perfect and flawless individual whose sayings and actions were all divinely inspired by Allah. Beginning with this initial presupposition, they set aside everything in traditional Muslim scholarship that does not accord with their initial religious assumptions. However, this is unfortunate, because historical reality should take precedent over our religious assumptions. Instead, our religious belief should be in accordance with historical reality. This is why the historical record found in the ahadith [Arabic plural of Hadith] and the Sirat Rasul Allah by Ibn Ishaq are so important.

Finally, the third standard (matn) that Muslim scholarship uses to judge the authenticity of a Hadith seems to be an illegitimate standard. The real standard should be the historicity of a narrative. To determine the actuality of an historical event, the chain of narrators (isnad) and the reliability and reputation of the narrators ('adl) are valid considerations. By contrast, it is not intellectually appropriate to reject a historical event because it does not agree with Muslim religious doctrine. This view gets the cart before the horse. In essence, it asserts that, even if a historical event actually happened, Muslim scholarship would reckon that it did not happen if it conflicts with their present-day religious dogma. Our present-day thoughts don't create the events of past history. If they did, there would be no point in historical research.

As a side note, some Muslim scholarship applies their third standard to the events of the Bible. For example, some believe that all prophets lived sinless lives. Since Muslim belief teaches that adultery is a sin, it would follow that no prophet committed adultery. Therefore, since we believe that King Dawud (King David) was a prophet, it follows that he never committed adultery with Bathsheba (2 Samuel 11:2-5). Therefore, we must conclude that the biblical report of King Dawud's adultery was not a true report because the historicity of the report is irrelevant. It does not make any difference whether or not King Dawud actually committed adultery. For many Muslims, present-day beliefs take precedence over the actual events of history. Thus, there could never be an historical event that could conflict with Muslim dogma. Such an arbitrary standard safely protects the religion of Islam from the realities of the historical record, making the religion of Islam non-falsifiable…but at what cost?
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Old 12-09-2004, 10:56 AM
marypopinz marypopinz is offline
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Default Re: Dis-information.

Excellant food forthought 55132.

God Bless you and keep your family healthy and safe. Please pray for peace and the truth to come to light. It's ging to be a painful birthing process for the world and the promised child is the grace of God - peace.

Mary XXX
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Old 12-09-2004, 10:58 AM
marypopinz marypopinz is offline
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Default Re: Dis-information.


Keep up the faith!

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Old 12-09-2004, 11:00 AM
Ahmad Ahmad is offline
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Default Re: Dis-information.

It's either you didn't read any of my posts on that thread, or you just cut and paste articles to tarnish the truth!

Whatever the case is, here is a brief answer to your claims:

1- The "Weak Hadith" theory you mention is totally a different issue than my position which is:

-SUBMISSION has only ONE source of law, Quran.

-MUHAMMAD's mission was only to DELIVER Quran.

-ALL HIS SAYINGS false or true must be dealt with as we deal with history books, some are false dis-info. and some are truth. Whatever they are, they can't and don't constitute a LAW besides God's ONLY LAW, Quran.

Muhammad himself is quoted in Quran saying that he is not to use anything other than Quran as a source of law.

[6:114] Shall I seek other than GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed? Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt.

[6:19] Say, "Whose testimony is the greatest?" Say, "GOD's. He is the witness between me and you that this Quran has been inspired to me, to preach it to you and whomever it reaches. Indeed, you bear witness that there are other gods beside GOD." Say, "I do not testify as you do; there is only one god, and I disown your idolatry."


The Satanic books of Hadith & Sunna are ideologically flawed, because God wouldn't send a book and tell the postman to deliver another book along with it! why the confusion?!
Also Quran has no contradictions, no nonsense. while Hadith books are FULL of contradictions and totally goes againt the Quranic teachings.

Now here is a challenge for you if you are that knowledgeable, can you point out any contradictions in Quran? The criterea for a divine book is "No contradictions".

[4:82] Why do they not study the Quran carefully? If it were from other than GOD, they would have found in it numerous contradictions.


However the ultimate proof of devine authorship is the message itself, if you can't see the TRUTH in it, no body can show it to you!

The messenger of the covenant Rashad Khalifa was sent in 70s and 80s to PURIFY once and forall God's religion. The miracle of 19 was revealed through him. God equipped Quran (the final testament) with a built in, incontrovertible mathematical proof of authenticity, that will prove to anybody that it is the only book on earth with this phenomena intact. 19 proves the authenticity of Quran word by word to reassure the hearts of the believers, the Christians and the Jewish that it is indeed the final testament.

The corrupt muslims have refused to accept this miracle because it obviously rejects Hadith (a non-proven book) as not from God. They finally killed the messenger in 1990!

Here is an introduction to the miracle of 19.

From appendix 1 (Authorized english translation of Quran by Rashad Khalifa):


Like the Quran itself, the Quran's mathematical coding ranges from the very simple, to the very complex. The Simple Facts are those observations that can be ascertained without using any tools. The complex facts require the assistance of a calculator or a computer. The following facts do not require any tools to be verified, but please remember they all refer to the original Arabic text:

1. The first verse (1:1),known as "Basmalah," consists of 19 letters.
(This verse begins all the chapters except one, it says: In the name of God, The Gracious, The Merciful)

2. The Quran consists of 114 suras(Chapters), which is ..............19 x 6.
3. The total number of verses in the Quran is 6346, or ....19 x 334. [6234 numbered verses & 112 un-numbered verses (Basmalahs) 6234+112 = 6346] Note that 6+3+4+6 =.......19.
8. The famous first revelation (96:1-5) consists of .......19 words.
9. This 19-worded first revelation consists of 76 letters .19 x 4.
10. Sura 96, first in the chronological sequence, consists of .......................19 verses.
11. This first chronological sura is placed atop the last ..19 suras.
12. Sura 96 consists of 304 Arabic letters, and 304 equals .19 x 16.
13. The last revelation (Sura 110) consists of ............19 words.
14. The first verse of the last revelation (110:1) consists of ................19 letters.
19. The Quran mentions 30 different numbers: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 19, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 99, 100, 200, 300, 1000, 2000, 3000, 5000, 50,000, & 100,000. The sum of these numbers is 162146, which equals 19x8534. Rashad Khalifa

For more info. http://www.usn2161.net/19miracle.html
Or find appendix 1 of the authorized english translation by Rashad Khalifa

The discovery of this miracle in Quran paves the way for the establishment of God's kingdom on earth, The USN, whether the wicked satanists who think they rule the world like it or not, God's will will be done, and the prophecy in Quran says that all the exsisting religions will fade out gradually and Submission will prevail on earth.

[9:33] He is the One who sent His messenger with the guidance and the religion of truth, and will make it dominate all religions, in spite of the idol worshipers.
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[3:19] The only religion approved by GOD is \"Submission.\"...
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Old 12-09-2004, 11:21 AM
marypopinz marypopinz is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 710
Default Re: Dis-information.

The Quran is the only way... Jesus Christ is the only way.

Give it a rest. Faith is the only way. All true faiths lead to God. If God is in your heart, you are on the right path. God is peace and understanding and mercy and love and grace and truth.

God loves ALL his children. Satan's children are not following God and God still loves them... he wants to turn them from their evil ways. Belief in God is having faith in something good from beyond - a positive creative force. Satanists believe in this life alone and not the afterlife. Complete Destruction. They think only of themselves. They are seeking to destroy God's children through the annihilation of all faiths.

They are seeking to destroy hope.

Wake up and stop arguing. You are family. You are supposed to seek the common ground in the name of peace for the love of the children. Isn't that what a family does?

Please correct me if I am mistaken.

Mary XXX
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Old 12-09-2004, 11:27 AM
Ahmad Ahmad is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 382
Default Re: Dis-information.


I for one have no personal issues with anyone and i don't like to argue. however it is my duty to proclaim the truth and expose the disinformation, otherwise Satan will really reign.

The problem is not faith in God, the question is:

Which god? The Creator or a creature.
& God alone or God+ a creature?.

I believe Satan promotes the latter choices.
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[3:19] The only religion approved by GOD is \"Submission.\"...
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Old 12-09-2004, 12:22 PM
marypopinz marypopinz is offline
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Posts: 710
Default Re: Dis-information.

Your God or mine? I say they are one and the same. So does your quran.

God Bless.

Mary XXX
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