Go Back   Club Conspiracy Forums > Resources > Share the knowledge
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 11-06-2005, 04:28 AM
Saturnino Saturnino is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 624
Default Re: Bible Study - Let us ponder together


The sons of God controversy is really no controversy at all. It just means angels, who were created by God
The fact that Jesus was called Son of God (capital S) means that He is the Son in the godhead, a position, a function, not an indication of being an offspring. It indicates that He, even though being God Himself, subjects to the Father in certain matters, such as when He came to earth. That's their deal, so to speak. I guess they could have called God the boss and God the subordinate, but again that wouldn't be correct 100% because they are NOT inferior in any way to each other, but equal persons of the godhead doing different jobs.
The same explanation goes to the expression Son of Man. It indicates the human side of Jesus. He was both Son of God (fully God) and Son of Man (fully man).
He had to be a real man, and not a fake, so He could redeem men. Sin entered the world thru one man, Adam, and had to be dealt with by the sacrifice of a sinless man, Jesus.

About the other posts, one has to be very sure of what he is saying before confronting 2,000 years of scholarship and people who gave sometimes their lives to the study of the Bible. You don't just wake up and say that you think Jesus married Mary Magdalene. Most people who say those absurd things have never really read the Bible at all.

Another huge reason to believe that the Bible is true is that it is a book of Revelation, that God gave to men to direct and guide them in the way of salvation. If the Bible is tampered, a fake, it means God can't even do this one thing right, which is to guide us and preserve His own revelation in the way He wants. It means we are pretty much lost with a powerless God. Not the case !

Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-06-2005, 04:45 AM
igwt igwt is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,391
Default Re: Bible Study - Let us ponder together

Quote:
Saturnino wrote:
The sons of God controversy is really no controversy at all. It just means angels, who were created by God
The fact that Jesus was called Son of God (capital S) means that He is the Son in the godhead, a position, a function, not an indication of being an offspring. It indicates that He, even though being God Himself, subjects to the Father in certain matters, such as when He came to earth. That's their deal, so to speak. I guess they could have called God the boss and God the subordinate, but again that wouldn't be correct 100% because they are NOT inferior in any way to each other, but equal persons of the godhead doing different jobs.
The same explanation goes to the expression Son of Man. It indicates the human side of Jesus. He was both Son of God (fully God) and Son of Man (fully man).
He had to be a real man, and not a fake, so He could redeem men. Sin entered the world thru one man, Adam, and had to be dealt with by the sacrifice of a sinless man, Jesus.

About the other posts, one has to be very sure of what he is saying before confronting 2,000 years of scholarship and people who gave sometimes their lives to the study of the Bible. You don't just wake up and say that you think Jesus married Mary Magdalene. Most people who say those absurd things have never really read the Bible at all.

Another huge reason to believe that the Bible is true is that it is a book of Revelation, that God gave to men to direct and guide them in the way of salvation. If the Bible is tampered, a fake, it means God can't even do this one thing right, which is to guide us and preserve His own revelation in the way He wants. It means we are pretty much lost with a powerless God. Not the case !
Does that mean one should not worship the son of God? As Exodus 34:14 states:-

For thou shalt worship no other god: for the Lord whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-06-2005, 04:53 AM
Saturnino Saturnino is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 624
Default Re: Bible Study - Let us ponder together

Of couse we should ! Worshipping Jesus is the same as worshipping "the Lord" , since He is God. Remember that at that time, the coming of Jesus and the Trinity were mysteries yet to be revealed, but prophecized (spell ?) in several places to the Jews.

The "gods" mentioned in the Exodus text refer to demonic false gods, like Moloch, Astoreth, etc.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-06-2005, 04:56 AM
igwt igwt is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,391
Default Re: Bible Study - Let us ponder together

Quote:
Saturnino wrote:
Of couse we should ! Worshipping Jesus is the same as worshipping "the Lord" , since He is God. Remember that at that time, the coming of Jesus and the Trinity were mysteries yet to be revealed, but prophecized (spell ?) in several places to the Jews.

The "gods" mentioned in the Exodus text refer to demonic false gods, like Moloch, Astoreth, etc.
So it seems, The Lord Jesus Christ = Creator and therefore God.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-06-2005, 05:23 AM
Saturnino Saturnino is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 624
Default The Trinity

Since the Trinity subject is so controversial and comes up ALL THE TIME in this forum, I thought the following text could help to clarify the Christian perspective about it:

_______________________________________________

For there are three that bear record
in heaven, the Father, the Word, and
the Holy Ghost: and these three are
one (I John 5:7).

The above text is the clearest and most succinct statement of the doctrine of the Trinity in the Bible, but also probably the most controversial verse in the Bible. Many authorities believe it was not in John’s original epistle, but was added by some ancient copyist. Consequently, al-though it is in the King James Bible, most modern English translations omit it. There are others (including this writer) who are convinced it was in the original and should be retained.

In any case, the truth of the Trinity is taught in many other passages of the New Testament and does not depend on this particular verse. It is undoubtedly the most distinctive doctrine of the Christian faith. Most religions are either pantheis-tic (e.g., Buddhism) or polytheistic (e.g., Hinduism). Two other religions are monotheistic (Judaism, Islam), but only Christianity recognizes the one real God (the Triune God—Father, Son, Holy Spirit)—one God in three Persons.

The sacred book of the Muslims—the Koran—regards Jesus as only a prophet, repeatedly denouncing as infidels all those who believe in the Trinity. The Jews often consider Jesus to have been a great teacher, but no more than that. To the Christian, however, the Lord Jesus Christ is a person yet God incarnate, God’s only begotten Son—Creator, Savior, King of kings and Lord of lords. Christians also believe that the Holy Spirit is not just a spiritual influence, but a real person, the third Person of the Godhead.

When an individual becomes a Christian, he acknowledges it by being baptized in the "name [note, just a single name] of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matthew 28:19). He believes in one God—but not the un-knowable, unapproachable "god" of Islam called "Allah."

Instead, he recognizes God as the infinite, invisible, omnipresent Father, but also as the Son, the visible, touchable, yet perfectly holy Word always revealing and manifesting the Father, and as the Holy Spirit, always present to guide, convict, and comfort. He is very real—eternal and invisible, omnipresent Father of all, yet visible and approachable through the Son and experienced and understood in the Holy Spirit.

Majestic mystery, but wonderful reality!

Christians believe in the Trinity—one God, not three gods, but three divine Persons, each equally and totally God. We cannot really comprehend this with our minds, but we can believe it and rejoice with our hearts. It is somewhat analagous to the "space" of God’s created universe. Space is comprised of three dimensions, each of which permeates all space. This structure is helpful to illustrate the nature of the triune God. That is, God is one God, not three gods. Yet He is revealed as three Persons, each of which is eternally and completely God.

This great truth appears again and again in the Bible—especially in the New Testament, of course. But one can also discern it here and there in the Old Testament.

For example, note Isaiah 48:16:

"Come ye near unto me, hear ye this;
I have not spoken in secret from the
beginning; from the time that it was,
there am I: and now the Lord GOD
and His Spirit, hath sent me."

Note here that the Son, the divine Word who is speaking, is being "sent" into the world by the Father and the Spirit.

But turning again to the New Testament, it is rather remarkable to note how all three Persons of the Godhead are significant in so many phases of the Christian life. First, as noted, the believer is baptized in the one Name but in every Person (Matthew 18:19) of the holy Trinity.

Then, as he begins his Christian life, all three are still actively involved.

"How much more shall the blood of Christ,
who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself
without spot to God, purge your conscience
from dead works to serve the living God?"
(Hebrews 9:14).

The actual event of salvation requires a miraculous creation, with the believer undergoing "regeneration," and thus being "born again." This tremendous miracle is indeed accomplished only by the working of all three Persons of the Godhead. As Paul wrote,

"God sent forth His Son. . . . To redeem them
that were under the law, that we might receive
the adoption of sons. And because ye are sons,
God hath sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your
hearts, crying, Abba, Father" (Galatians 4:4–6).

The apostle Peter also noted the action of every Person of the divine Godhead in the great work of saving those who trust in Christ: "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ" (I Peter 1:2).

An extremely important part of the Christian life from its very beginning is that of prayer. That also is accomplished daily with each person of the Trinity participating.

"For through Him [that is, through Christ the Son]
we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father"
(Ephesians 2:18).

When we pray, we normally pray to our heavenly Father (not to Jesus or the Holy Ghost). God, of course, can hear a sincere prayer, regardless of how addressed, but we should know that we are really coming through the Lord Jesus and in His good name by means of the indwelling Holy Spirit. (Note Matthew 6:9 and John 14:13.)

Once we have been born again by the regenerating miracle of the Holy Spirit, our bodies become His temple. But this also means that the triune God Himself is there through the Spirit. We can be

"strengthened with might by His Spirit in the inner
man; That Christ may dwell in [our] hearts by faith;
. . . that ye might be filled with all the fullness of
God" (Ephesians 3:16–17,19).

This was also implied in Christ’s original promise that He would send the Holy Spirit.

"I will pray the Father, and He shall give you
another Comforter, that He may abide with
you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth, . . . for
He dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
I will not leave you comfortless: I will come
to you. . . . At that day ye shall know that I am
in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. . . .
If a man love me, he will keep my words:
and my Father will love him, and we will
come unto him, and make our abode with
him" (John 14:16–18,20,23).

At that time, Christ also promised that the Holy Spirit would teach us, and that this also would involve Himself as well as the Father.

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost,
whom the Father will send in my name, He
shall teach you all things" (v.26).

The pervasive content of His teaching would, of course, concern the Lord Jesus Himself, as directed by the Father,

"But when the Comforter is come, whom I
will send unto you from the Father, even
the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from
the Father, He shall testify of me" (15:26).

Thus, in a wonderful sense, the triune Godhead—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit— one and all live in each Christian believer, teaching, strengthening, convicting, comforting, and guiding him in answer to his prayers. This is the marvelous truth of the Trinity.

Keep in mind that there are three real Persons in the Godhead, not just three ways in which God reveals Himself. The Son prays to the Father, for example, and the Father sends the Holy Spirit when the Son returns to heaven.

Perhaps it is significant that the word "Godhead" appears just three times in the New Testament, each from a slightly different, though essentially synonymous Greek word. The first occurrence of "Godhead" is in Acts 17:29.

". . . we ought not to think that the Godhead
is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven
by art and man ’s device."

That is, no one can make a model of our three-in-one God—neither any kind of graven image nor some kind of philosophical construct.

But it seems that God Himself has made such a model.

"For the invisible things of Him from the
creation of the world are clearly seen,
being understood by the things that are
made, even His eternal power and
Godhead" (Romans 1:20).
This is the second mention of "Godhead."

That is, the creation itself can be seen as a model of the three-in-one Godhead. This remarkable fact cannot be discussed in the limited space here, but will be elaborated in more detail in the Back to Genesis section of the December issue of "Acts & Facts".
The physical universe is, in a very real sense, a trinity of trinities. Also, in a certain sense, human life is a trinity of body, soul, and spirit.

In fact, tri-unity in various ways is often seen in the creation (but note that a "trinity" is not an entity composed of three individual parts, like the sides of a triangle, but rather an entity of three parts, each of which is the whole).

Thus, although no man could ever model the Godhead, God has seemingly done this in His creation. But then the third mention of the Godhead is given in Colossians 2:9.

"For in [Christ] dwelleth all the fullness of
the Godhead bodily." Thus, the Lord Jesus
can say to His disciples: ". . . he that hath
seen me hath seen the Father" (John 14:9),

for He Himself is

"the image of the invisible God" (Colossians 1:15).

We can close with one more Biblical mention of the Trinity:

"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and
the love of God, and the communion of
the Holy Ghost, be with you all" (II Corinthians 13:14).


*Dr. Henry M. Morris is Founder and President Emeritus of ICR.

© 2005 by ICR All Rights Reserved Single Copies 10¢ Order from: INSTITUTE FOR CREATION RESEARCH P.O. Box 2667, El Cajon, CA 92021 Available for download on our website (www.icr.org).
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-06-2005, 06:33 AM
igwt igwt is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,391
Default Re: The Trinity

Saturnino,

Excellent article you posted.

:lol:
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-06-2005, 06:44 PM
redrat11 redrat11 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,242
Default Re: The Trinity

Satan is real, satan is a fallen angel, what's so hard about that?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-06-2005, 06:55 PM
Insider Insider is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 582
Default Re: Bible Study - Let us ponder together

If you don't understand the Bible then read it. Keep reading it until you do understand it. If you still do not understand at least some of it then that is a problem between you and GOD. Unless of course it is just a game played by a human who's world is dissolving around them now. In such a case, I do not have an answer.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-06-2005, 08:21 PM
madkhao madkhao is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 216
Default Re: Bible Study - Let us ponder together

I suggest reading Zechariah 1:8-15 to know more about satan walking to and fro in the earth. The myrtle trees are significant along with the red horses.
myrtle trees: myrtus communis



just my speculation
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11-06-2005, 08:54 PM
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Bible Study - Let us ponder together

Quote:
madkhao wrote:
I suggest reading Zechariah 1:8-15 to know more about satan walking to and fro in the earth. The myrtle trees are significant along with the red horses.
myrtle trees: myrtus communis



just my speculation
When you bring attention to somethings, do you ever consider that not all things desire attention and that more harm than good may be done by your actions. Consider this.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sex not on the brain, but in the nose: study littlejohn Share the knowledge 1 04-29-2008 08:23 PM
Something to ponder about the NSA phonegate. Opinions 1 05-13-2006 08:30 AM
911-war-tyranny-death....pics to ponder redrat11 Share the knowledge 0 11-08-2005 08:44 PM
Bible Study ll - Let us ponder together Barbara Share the knowledge 2 11-05-2005 11:17 AM
Points to Ponder New World Order operatives 2 10-22-2005 08:43 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:14 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.12
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.