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  #1  
Old 12-13-2008, 11:37 PM
NotThe1 NotThe1 is offline
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Default ISSUE IN-DEPTH: HEALTH CARE REFORM: There is a cure available for current plan


The report last week that the U.S. economy lost nearly 2 million jobs this year, and 533,000 jobs in November alone, sent shudders through our nation’s households. That’s the biggest one-month plunge in jobs in 34 years. “Horrendous” was how one economist put it, while others said the number of unemployed, and underemployed, could easily double over the next year.

These job losses spell disaster disaster for our health. Millions of people are losing their employer-sponsored health insurance, joining the 46 million who already lack coverage. Millions more are finding it harder to pay their co-pays and deductibles and are scrimping on their medications and doctor
visits. Many go without care, risking their health and often their very lives.

In short, affordable health care has never been more urgently needed. Yet most of the health reform proposals coming out of Washington these days won’t get us there.

Sen. Max Baucus (D-Mont.) recently unveiled his proposals for incremental health reform, which largely mirror the ideas of President-elect Barack Obama and Sen. Edward Kennedy (D-Mass.).

However well-intentioned, the Obama/Baucus/Kennedy approaches share a fatal flaw: they preserve a central role for the private health insurance industry.

To varying degrees, they would mandate that everyone buy private
health insurance —- the private insurance that is failing us today. Some of these plans offer a Medicare-like, public option that people could buy into, but experience with Medicare shows that the private plans refuse to compete on a level playing field. They cherry-pick healthier patients and insist on more than their share of payment.

Experience with mandate-based plans in Washington state (1993), Oregon (1992) and Massachusetts (1988 and today) shows that they simply don’t work, achieving neither universal health care nor cost containment.
health care
As long as we rely on private health insurers, universal coverage will be unaffordable. These companies generate immense overhead costs and force doctors and hospitals to spend heavily on billing billing and paperwork.

Administration consumes about one-third of every health care dollar in the U.S. By contrast, in countries with nonprofit national health insurance
insurance , administrative costs consume only half that amount.
HEALTH CARE REFORM: There is a cure available for current plan

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  #2  
Old 12-13-2008, 11:49 PM
BlueAngel BlueAngel is offline
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Default Re: ISSUE IN-DEPTH: HEALTH CARE REFORM: There is a cure available for current plan

Boy, they sure have dug a very deep hole, haven't they?

Do you think there is any way of crawling out of it any time soon?

As if Obama is going to take over the reigns of the disaster Bush and Company created and make it all go away in the blink of an eye.

I'm really tired of hearing the BS about health care for all Americans.

I'm 52 years old and this proposal has been talked about for most probably as long as I've been alive.

It's ridiculous.

All talk and no action.

I'm sick of hearing about this plan and that plan to provide health insurance for all Americans.

Either put up or shut up.

Don't keep stringing us along.

Last edited by BlueAngel : 12-14-2008 at 08:02 AM.
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  #3  
Old 12-13-2008, 11:51 PM
BlueAngel BlueAngel is offline
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Default Re: ISSUE IN-DEPTH: HEALTH CARE REFORM: There is a cure available for current plan

Boy, they sure have dug a very deep hole for the American citizens, haven't they?

Just the same as they orchestrate all over the world.

Do you think there is any way of crawling out of it any time soon?

As if Obama is going to take over the reigns of the disaster Bush and Company created and make it all go away in the blink of an eye.

I'm really tired of hearing the BS about health care for all Americans.

I'm 52 years old and this proposal has been talked about for most probably as long as I've been alive.

It's ridiculous.

All talk and no action.

I'm sick of hearing about this plan and that plan to provide health insurance for all Americans.

Either put up or shut up.

Don't keep stringing us along.

Last edited by BlueAngel : 12-14-2008 at 08:01 AM.
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  #4  
Old 01-29-2009, 01:01 PM
The Old Medic The Old Medic is offline
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Default Re: ISSUE IN-DEPTH: HEALTH CARE REFORM: There is a cure available for current plan

Universal health care will be a disaster, if they model it after Canada's system. There is a reason why tens of thousands of Canadians come to the US for medical care every year. They simply can't get it in their own country.

My paternal grandmother died because of the Canadian Medicare system. She was denied surgery for a hernia, because it wasn't life threatening. So, the hernia strangulated, she got gangrene, and she died.

The British system or the German system wouldn't be so bad. At least there, you can purchase insurance to get more than what the government plan allows. In Canada, it is illegal to sell such insurance.

Of course, if we go to a socialized system (and that is why YOU are advocating, regardless of why you call it), we will lose much of the medical innovation that has always been a big part of American medicine. there will be no reason to innovate, because nobody will be able to make a profit. So, we will become jus tlike Britain and Canada, very few medical advances any nore, just the same ole thing.

Havinf lived under socialized medicine in Canada (I am a dual citizen of the US & Canada), and having sopent many years in Eurrope, I sincerley hope that we NEVER go that route.

I can promose you, if government controls medicine, it will cost a LOT more than if run by private companies. The government always costs more, whenever it does anything that private industry can do. The government has never saved a penney, in providing anything at all.

It is a pipe dream to believe that the government will do it all at a lower cost. Look at Medicare here, it costs at least 30% more than private insurance, for less coverage.
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  #5  
Old 01-29-2009, 01:02 PM
The Old Medic The Old Medic is offline
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Default Re: ISSUE IN-DEPTH: HEALTH CARE REFORM: There is a cure available for current plan

I appologize for my typing. I should not hurry, and I should have proof read the above.
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  #6  
Old 01-29-2009, 10:24 PM
BlueAngel BlueAngel is offline
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Default Re: ISSUE IN-DEPTH: HEALTH CARE REFORM: There is a cure available for current plan

I'm a proponent for Universal Health Care that provides in some way, shape or form a medical system for those who are without.

Children, the poor, elderly, etc.

Those of us who have health care through our employer, self-employed and otherwise would not qualify.
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  #7  
Old 01-30-2009, 03:16 PM
The Old Medic The Old Medic is offline
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Default Re: ISSUE IN-DEPTH: HEALTH CARE REFORM: There is a cure available for current plan

Of course, the rest of us should pay for medical insurance for those that are too lazy to work; those that refuse to get a decent education; those that have way more kids than they can possibly afford to raise; the irresponsible; etc.

We should take care of those that have never saved any money, because they spent it all on the latest clothing, gadgets or whatever.

We that actually earn our own way in this world should pay more taxes to take care of those that simply will not take care of themselves, right?

We already do provide for the aged and disabled, who can not take care of themselves. Personally, I believe that those that won't, should just be left to fend for themselves.

I have no moral or legal obligation to care for those that refuse to do what is necessary to take care of themselves and their families.

I believe that people that will not take care of their obligations should have their children removed from such homes, and those children should be given to people that will raise them to be responsible citizens.

And don't feed me that crap about how you never had a chance to get an education or whatever.

I grew up dirt poor after my mother left my fathe. We ate dry dog food at times, because that was all we could afford. I had to drop out of school to work, so my mother could drink up my earnings. I went to 28 different schools, in five different states. I never finished the 11th grade.

I joined the Army at 16, and spent 10 years on active duty. I married in the Army, had two kids, and ended up having to raise them as a single parent. I went to college, on my own, and worked full time too. I eventually EARNED my Ed.D in Rehabilitation Counseling.

I have a lot of compassion for those that simply can't make it in this world. I would help anyone who had a fire destroy their home, etc. I have helped many peole that had a sudden illness, and needed short term help,

I have none for the lazy, the unmotivated, those that just want to take from our society. etc. Frankly, the world would be a lot better off if those people would just eliminate themselves.
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  #8  
Old 01-30-2009, 09:55 PM
BlueAngel BlueAngel is offline
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Default Re: ISSUE IN-DEPTH: HEALTH CARE REFORM: There is a cure available for current plan

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Old Medic View Post
Of course, the rest of us should pay for medical insurance for those that are too lazy to work; those that refuse to get a decent education; those that have way more kids than they can possibly afford to raise; the irresponsible; etc.

We should take care of those that have never saved any money, because they spent it all on the latest clothing, gadgets or whatever.

We that actually earn our own way in this world should pay more taxes to take care of those that simply will not take care of themselves, right?

We already do provide for the aged and disabled, who can not take care of themselves. Personally, I believe that those that won't, should just be left to fend for themselves.

I have no moral or legal obligation to care for those that refuse to do what is necessary to take care of themselves and their families.

I believe that people that will not take care of their obligations should have their children removed from such homes, and those children should be given to people that will raise them to be responsible citizens.

And don't feed me that crap about how you never had a chance to get an education or whatever.

I grew up dirt poor after my mother left my fathe. We ate dry dog food at times, because that was all we could afford. I had to drop out of school to work, so my mother could drink up my earnings. I went to 28 different schools, in five different states. I never finished the 11th grade.

I joined the Army at 16, and spent 10 years on active duty. I married in the Army, had two kids, and ended up having to raise them as a single parent. I went to college, on my own, and worked full time too. I eventually EARNED my Ed.D in Rehabilitation Counseling.

I have a lot of compassion for those that simply can't make it in this world. I would help anyone who had a fire destroy their home, etc. I have helped many peole that had a sudden illness, and needed short term help,

I have none for the lazy, the unmotivated, those that just want to take from our society. etc. Frankly, the world would be a lot better off if those people would just eliminate themselves.
Excuse me, but what are you ranting about?

Those who want to take from our society????

You say.

Not everyone is born with a silver spoon in their mouth.

Due to the way our society is set-up by the controllers, many people are unable to go to college and get a good job so that they can afford medical insurance.

MAKE IT AFFORDABLE so it is accessible not only to the rich and those who are employed, self-employed, or provide a health care system to take care of those who are unable to procure coverage due to the astronomical rates.

It will benefit our country. A healthy society is more desirous than an unhealthy one and no child should be without.

To call every person who doesn't have health insurance lazy and a useless eater, as you depict them to be is nonsense.

You must be a "fortunate one," eh, who has no compassion for the less fortunate.
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  #9  
Old 01-31-2009, 12:33 PM
The Old Medic The Old Medic is offline
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Default Re: ISSUE IN-DEPTH: HEALTH CARE REFORM: There is a cure available for current plan

I was not born with a silver spoon in my mouth. I grew up very, very poor. I never saw a dentist until I went into the Army at the age of 16. I saw a physician one time between the ages of 7 and 16, and that was to get 11 stitches in my forehead.

I had to eat dry dog food at times as a kid, because we had no money. I went to 28 different schools, in five different states, and never finished the 11th grade. I got my High School GED while in the Army, and began to take college classes. I spent 10 years on active duty with the Army, and only left because my wife abandoned me and our children to become a hippie.

I worked and went to college. I was also a single parent for over 10 years. I earned my Masters Degree and set out on a professional degree. I later earned my Ed.D.

I provided for my children (and they are doing me the great honor of raising my grandchildren with exactly the same values as I raised rhwm with), and never asked for or got any help from anyone else.

I worked hard for what I now have. Why should I share that with people that are too lazy to get an education, too lazy to get skills that pay a decent wage, etc.

Sorry, but it is NOT the responsibility of the government to provide for those that refuse to provide for themselves.

For those too disabled to care for themselve, absolutely yes. They need the help, and they should be given that help. But the healthy, hell no! Let them starve if they refuse to work. Take their kids away from them, and let people that are willing to work and impart values to them raise them.

I will close with a quote that far too many people forget: "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." Those words were spoken by John F. Kennedy.
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  #10  
Old 01-31-2009, 11:02 PM
BlueAngel BlueAngel is offline
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Default Re: ISSUE IN-DEPTH: HEALTH CARE REFORM: There is a cure available for current plan

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Old Medic View Post
I was not born with a silver spoon in my mouth. I grew up very, very poor. I never saw a dentist until I went into the Army at the age of 16. I saw a physician one time between the ages of 7 and 16, and that was to get 11 stitches in my forehead.

I had to eat dry dog food at times as a kid, because we had no money. I went to 28 different schools, in five different states, and never finished the 11th grade. I got my High School GED while in the Army, and began to take college classes. I spent 10 years on active duty with the Army, and only left because my wife abandoned me and our children to become a hippie.

I worked and went to college. I was also a single parent for over 10 years. I earned my Masters Degree and set out on a professional degree. I later earned my Ed.D.

I provided for my children (and they are doing me the great honor of raising my grandchildren with exactly the same values as I raised rhwm with), and never asked for or got any help from anyone else.

I worked hard for what I now have. Why should I share that with people that are too lazy to get an education, too lazy to get skills that pay a decent wage, etc.

Sorry, but it is NOT the responsibility of the government to provide for those that refuse to provide for themselves.

For those too disabled to care for themselve, absolutely yes. They need the help, and they should be given that help. But the healthy, hell no! Let them starve if they refuse to work. Take their kids away from them, and let people that are willing to work and impart values to them raise them.

I will close with a quote that far too many people forget: "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." Those words were spoken by John F. Kennedy.
Everyone knows the Kennedy quote.

You don't need to keep repeating it.

We get it.

You think everyone who doesn't have health care is a lazy slob.

The controllers of the world have suppressed and made ill certain segments of society throughout the world and it's time they pay for their sins.

If they can print billions out of thin air to bail-out the banks, they can print billions out of thin air to provide health care for those who cannot provide for themselves.
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