I don't think that any percieved errors in the bible have to negate the good of the bible. Again, that dialectic Rush, why are you falling for it? Symbolism to tell a story is not the same as a modern scientific treatise. God doesn't have to explain or prove physics to modern day man, especially in a document written by biblical era men.
As for whether the earth is spinning, and assuming that water circling down a drain has alternate explanations, the question perhaps is spinning relative to what? If a cyclist has a cloud of bugs circling his head, his perception of whether the bugs are circling his head has nothing to do with whether his body is circling a track at the same time, or whether he is not moving at all.
The conclusion is that the World does not orbit the Sun and that it does not rotate about an axis, either. This can be reasoned via the following logic:
The stars complete circular paths every 23h 56m 4.091s, apparently as a consequence of the observer having completed a circle of absolute maximum circumference 24,860 miles.
No similar, annual motion of the stars is observed, in consequence of our supposedly hurtling around an (approximate) circle of 584,058,077 mile circumference (i.e., 23,494 times bigger than the equatorial maximum given in point number 1).
Precession of the World's imaginary axis, such that it always points to the same point in the northern sky, will not produce such an alignment in the south, and vice versa.
The World therefore would have to remain aligned with the north-south axis of the celestial sphere, which, in turn, means that it cannot be orbiting the Sun, unless the stars are somehow tied to the World as the World moves.
Such non-fixed 'background' stars would be contrary to the heliocentric scheme.
Heliocentrism is therefore an invalid model.
Acentrism is therefore an invalid model.
Geocentrism (with a rotating World) is therefore an invalid model (see Proof of Heliocentric Incorrectness 1), because it is geometrically equivalent to a heliocentric model. Hence, since the heliocentric one is wrong, the equivalent geocentric one must also be wrong, simply because of its equivalence.
Star circles cannot be due to a rotating World, because they do not vary with latitude (a camera situated at the North Pole will still capture Polaris moving around the same-sized circle).
We are therefore left with a World that must remain on the north-south axis of the celestial sphere, must be central, because of countless other observations (e.g., Y.P. Varshni's paper, briefly mentioned under "Solar System," elsewhere on this website), and which cannot be a World that rotates.
The heliocentric and geocentric (with rotating World) cosmological models are geometrically equivalent, since they can be considered as sharing a common point of rotation. This is Mach's Principle. The heliocentric and geostatic systems, on the other hand, are not equivalent, either dynamically or geometrically. They are totally different, physical systems. There is no common point of rotation between them. Mach's Principle does not therefore apply, although many people get themselves and others completely confused by erroneously claiming that it does. Hence, the geostatic reference system (as discussed in the previous proof, linked to on point number 8) again matches observational facts, whereas the heliocentric/acentric concept does not.
An interesting article "Persecution in the name of science" from the
Orthodox Jewish newspaper "Yated Ne'eman"
The handling of Richard Sternberg by the scientific establishment
has been mild compared to some of his predecessors.
There exists an academic and media mafiosi which attempts to
discourage, suppress, ostracise, threaten, and demote individuals
who even start to show an interest in "heterodox ideas".
Organised pressure groups, chicanery, sharp practice, and jealous
histrionics abound in the "altruistic" Scientific Establishment,
geared to prevent and discredit any research and experimentation
that threatens the establishment "status quo" or is against
"informed opinion", especially in the area of today's three "sacred
cows" of Evolution, Relativity and Heliocentricity.
Any doubters or nay-sayers are lambasted with epithets like "dupe",
"heresy", "shameful", "disgraceful", "pseudo-scientific
"fog of nonsense", "red herrings", "shallow", "starry-eyed
fundamentalism", "extreme", "lack of balance, "dogmatic",
"hysterical", "far fetched", "ignorant", "of no help to anyone",
"height of presumption".
When even President Reagan in 1984 dared to express his doubts in
the theory of evolution, public questions were raised as to his
Researchers like Immanuel Velikovsky (catastrophist), Halton Arp
(anti-Big Bang), Stefan Marinov (anti-Relativist), Pons and
Fleischmann (cold fusion), Robert Gentry (pleochroic haloes),
Richard Milton (anti-evolution), Barry Setterfield (decrease in
speed of light), Eric Braithwate (free energy), Walter van der Kamp
(geocentrist) etc., have been shown to have strong cases, or even
be substantially correct. Yet they were all initially greeted with
epithets like "stupid", "drivel", "loony", "harmless fruitcake",
need of psychiatric help" etc., and conspiratorial attempts at the
highest levels were made to silence them, ban their publications,
restrict their access to laboratories, deny them telescope time
in blatant disrespect of the pursuit of novel human knowledge.
I'm glad you've arrived to give Rush some support and are co-believers in his theory. It must suck for Rush to have no one to discuss this thread rationally with as a few have expressly stated that they are not sold on the idea.
Rush, preach on bro! You finally have some folks who agree with you. Good on ya mate!
__________________ [size=medium]Freelance brain owner[/size] R U Darwin\'s monkey?[size=medium] HumanKIND = God\'s creation[/size]
All right, kids, open up your Bibles (preferably King James) to Joshua 10:12-13, where it says:
Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.
And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
Now we agree the Moon goes around the earth. No problem there. If the earth were actually turning, how hard would it have been for Joshua to stay "Earth, turn not" or something like that?
Some people say the people back in the Old Testament times couldn't understand the earth turning on its axis. That's bull. A kindergartener can understand that--in fact they're indoctrinated with this beginning in elementary school!
Don\'t blame me, I voted for Peroutka (Constitution Party)!
The second false doctrine domino--the one next in line after Copernican heliocentricity--is its pseudo-scientific mutation in the Natural Sciences, viz., Darwinism. Aspiring now to "fact" status (like its heliocentrism predecessor!) by virtue of unrelenting proselytizing in all media and educational institutions, this incredible myth which says that an atom of energy exploded and evolved into all that is...could never, ever have gotten to first base if the churches had fought back the way they should! Now--reminiscent of its Copernican forerunner--here comes the Darwinian Myth around third base, heading for another big score against the Bible (and facts and logic)! But not to worry! Along with its heliocentricity prototype, evolutionism will be totally mythified when the "King of Kings and His faithful followers overcome" the Beastís government (Rev.17:4) by exposing the deceptions on which it is built, and then move irrevocably toward separating folks everywhere into two camps, viz., Godís and Satanís (Rev. 13:7).
A third false doctrine domino that will fall when Judgment begins at the churches will be the Scripturally impossible and tremendously confusing and counterproductive teachings about a secret pre (or mid or post) tribulation Rapture of the Church. This widely taught deception has thoroughly disarmed scores of millions of Christians for what is ahead. The Rapture is true, of course. It just cannot and does not occur until the very last day of this earthís history. (Check: HERE for starters.)
A fourth false doctrine domino, which Godís churches could have avoided by sticking to the Scriptures, involves the exposure of the ubiquitous Millennial teaching. This masterful deception has been straining to fulfill the teachings of 13th century anti-Christ mystical Kabbalism by presenting a labyrinthine quasi-Scriptural argument and overlooking these plain Scriptural facts: HERE & HERE & HERE & HERE & HERE....
A fifth false doctrine domino involves the exposure of Satanís clever substitution of misleading concepts about his own indispensable role in Godís Plan in the place of the Biblical facts about that role. As Godís fabricated antithesis with no Truth in him from the beginning (Jn.8:44; I Jn.3:8), he continues to do what he was created to do until his plug is pulled on the last day of this earthís history. After that he becomes a lifeless showcase lesson to be studied and marveled at throughout eternity (Is. 14:16; Ezek. 28:17; Is. 66:24). The Scripturally unsupportable church-taught beliefs about Satan have been a great barrier to the Christianís understanding of Godís Plan for this temporary old earth and the eternal New Earth. You can get a grip on the Truth of the matter HERE and see even more clearly why Godís Judgment must begin in the churches....
Are you saying that Christ's thousand-year reign (the Millennium) isn't true?
Look at Revelation chapter 20 and especially note verse 4: And I saw the thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
I do agree, though, that so many Christians have bought into the heliocentricity lie. My husband thinks I'm nuts for being a geocentrist, but he figures I'll believe what I want. It's just been so ingrained in people, and the number of people I know of who know geocentrism to be true I could count on one hand and have fingers left over!
I do believe the earth is round. There's no doubt about that. Flat-earthers point out the "four corners of the earth," but according to a dictionary a corner can mean one of the four directions--north, south, east, west.
As far as a pre-trib Rapture...jury's still out on that with me. Pre-tribbers quote 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 as proof for a pre-trib Rapture, but I'm not convinced that's what it's referring to. They say Jesus won't touch the ground, that the saints will meet Him in the air, and go back to heaven with Him, and then he'll make His Second Coming, along with the saints. I'm not convinced that's what those verses are referring to.
Edward Hendrie, in his Antichrist Conspiracy site, points out the parable of the wheat and the tares--the tares are gathered FIRST, and put in the fire. The wheat (saints) isn't taken out first.
I know some pre-tribbers aren't worried about major persecution 'cause they'll be taken out first. That's dangerous thinking...persecution hits and we're still here, it can cause people to lose faith!
Right now my thinking is, pre-trib rapture or no, you should ALWAYS be prepared for persecution, come what will! Jesus never promised we'd be free from it--quite the opposite! Here in America we still have it pretty easy--for now.
Don\'t blame me, I voted for Peroutka (Constitution Party)!
As you say, the key movement is the turning of the earth, not
necessarily the revolution of the earth around the sun. The turning of the
earth on its axis is the movement that is used to explain away why it
appears that we are the center of the universe. Logically, if the earth is
not turning on its axis then that means that the appearance of us being the
center of the universe is not just appearance but reality.
As to the speed of the stars as they go flying around the earth once a day,
they can't be travelling any faster than the acentrists say the stars and
galaxies are travelling as they go flying away from each other in their stupid Big Bang.
As a sidenote, if the universe is as the acentrists/Big Bangers say --
an unbounded, infnite universe with no center because everything is the
center (because the universe is infinite) -- then they are ascribing GODLIKE
POWERS to matter. This means they may as well get down on their hands and
knees and kiss the dirt beneath their feet for truly they worship dirt
the atom itself which they believe is able to and is in fact creating itself
at this very moment out of nothing, then proceding to assemble itself
(with other atoms) into planets and stars and all manner of living creatures.
Therefore -- with the current acceptance of Copernican theories, evolution,
Big Bang, etcetera -- Romans Chapter 1 explains why our world is so
depraved, with depraved, evil people breaking into people's homes and
stealing children to be raped, tortured and murdered; why unborn babies in
the womb are tolerated to have their heads violently ripped off their bodies
along with their limbs -- on and on, the homosexuality, pedophilia,
brutality of man against man.
Romans 1:18-25 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all
ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in
unrighteousness, Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them;
for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the
CREATION OF THE WORLD are CLEARLY SEEN, being understood by the things that
are made, even his eternal power and Godhead, so that THEY ARE WITHOUT
EXCUSE: Because that WHEN THEY KNEW God, they glorified him not as God,
neither were thankful; but became VAIN IN THEIR IMAGINATIONS, and their
FOOLISH heart was darkened. Professing themseles to be wise, THEY BECAME
FOOLS. And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made
like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creepting
things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of
their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves. Who
CHANGED THE TRUTH OF God into a LIE, and WORSHIPPED AND SERVED THE CREATURE
(i.e. the atom) MORE THAN THE CREATOR, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
If you go up in a helicopter in New York and hover for 4 hours and then come back down to earth you should be in Los Angeles, not New York ( if the Earth were really moving ).
Gravity does not account for the copter still being in New York, it would only account for the copter not falling out of the sky back to Earth.
If Copernicanism can be proven wrong, that the universe is geocentric or geostatic and not heliocentric then
Darwinism will fall, then Marxism will fall and then Freudism will fall. All Satans lies will fall like dominoes one afer the other.
Geostatic means the sun and stars go around the Earth each day and folks the only way this could be true is if: The universe is not one ten-trillionth of the size you've been told by Government. Are NASA workers and most high school and university science teachers not paid by the government? Does government lie to us? This is their biggest lie.
This is a religious war. Do we believe the Cabbalist/Pharisaic/Satanist RELIGION of a big bang and out of control exploding universe with bug-eyed aliens or the Christian RELIGION with Earth and Humans as
Special Creations in God's orderly universe.
The Bible says over 60 times that the sun orbits the Earth.
I don't expect anyone to believe this until they check out:
Signed RJ Rushdoony ( real name Bernie )
ooh, oooh, oooh, boy this is something to really get excited about. here we go again-religion.
forget about everything else. you say this is their biggest lie????? this???? is this how you satisfy your concerns for the nwo???? by this???
you are a freak, listen to yourself. if you haven't figured out what the biggest lie has been till this 'earth' thing, then man you are ignorant and self-centered and greedy. you want the world to run on your beliefs which is nothing more than symbolism within the bible. if the nwo is going to sort us all, man you will be the first pick for the shit pile/file