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  #221  
Old 11-29-2005, 12:39 PM
rushdoony rushdoony is offline
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Default Re: The Earth is NOT Moving!


These Are the Chief Obstacles Now Preventing the Truth About the

Size of the Universe from Getting to People Everywhere:


Detailed information given throughout this web page leads to inescapable conclusions about the worldís current textbook "knowledge" of the Universe. That documented information tells us plainly and simply that the Origin, Age, Size, and Structure of the Universe taught everywhere is nothing more than a montage of unwarranted assumptions, denial of facts, occult mathematics, and high tech fraud.


More, that information unvaryingly points to the source, the taproot, that has enabled an incredible evolutionary mythology to become a "scientific fact" which is accepted virtually world-wide as a truly "scientific" explanation for the origin of all that exists. That "phony phact" teaches us that an explosion of an infinitesimal "cosmic egg" some 15 billion years ago "evolved" into the universe, the Earth, all plant and animal life, and Mankind... Yíknow: The Big Bang Paradigm....


What people havenít known is that there has been a long hidden secret cabal behind this allegedly scientific "origins model". This is a secret that has recently emerged from the closet and is on the Net and in the bookstores. Now that this veil of secrecy has been lifted everyone can know that what they have been led to believe is a purely secular scientific "origins model" is actually nothing more than the evolution-based "creation scenario" of a specific Religion which is dedicated to the destruction of the Bibleís "creation scenario" (and hence Bible credibility from A to Z).


If you havenít done so, you can read about the religious source of this world-conquering "origins model" from those who spelled out its fundamentals centuries ago and those who presently promote it (HERE - HERE - HERE - HERE).


Thus, factually and beyond debate, this Evolution-based "origins model" of an anti-Bible, anti-Christ religion is in command not only of todayís Theoretical Science Establishment, but also the evolutionary mind-set that now controls all of the subject "disciplines" which make up modern manís "knowledge" bank (HERE).


Once this understanding of how the modern world really acquired its belief in the evolutionary foundation of all that exists--and then recognizes that this belief is the result of the nearly complete victory of one religionís "creation scenario" over that of another religionís "creation scenario"--the whole subject can be approached objectively and with a clear mind. There is no altruistic battle going on here between unbiased "science" and outmoded Biblical (and Koranic) superstitions about the origin of all that exists, mankind included. Oh no. Not by the hair of your chinny chin chin! Seen in its true light, this is a battle between two religions about the basis of all knowledge...a Spiritual Battle over which God or gíd tells the Truth....


As all this sinks in, two main questions arise which require answers:


Q #1: Considering the level of saturation of the evolutionary mind-set world wide, isnít it simply unthinkable to imagine it being exposed and overcome (Rev.18:7)?


A #1: Humanly speaking, yes. However, when all the deception is in the open and the gíd behind all of it is identified, there is obviously ONE who can do the unthinkable, viz., the God of the six-day Creation Scenario. With this God all things are possible. HE answered the question in writing over 1900 years ago: Babylon--Satanís edifice of deception--will Fall "one hour" after a Global Government is established. This Fall causes a division of the worldís populations into Satan worshippers and worshippers of God (Rev. 17:12-14; 13:4-8; 18:2,4,8,10,17,19). Plainly, (Rev.17:14) Babylon (i.e., "confusion") will be "overcome"!


Q #2: If the world-controlling power behind the evolutionary mind-set was Scripturally scheduled for exposure over the Creation question first more than 1900 years ago (Rev. 14:7), what are the main obstacles that are preventing that Biblically prophesied exposure from beginning now?


A #2: There are four such obstacles:


One: The Christian Churches. There is not one which stands up for over sixty non-moving Earth Scriptures (HERE - also: HERE); and few that stand up for the literal Genesis Creation Account which is Scripturally certified scores of times (HERE). Godís Judgment begins "at the house of God" on these two creation issues (HERE).


Two: The "end time" doctrine of "Dispensationalism" is derived from the same Rabbinic Kabbalist source as the Big Bang Evolutionary Paradigm (HERE). Its powerful hold on most of fundamentalist "end time" teaching has blinded the very "elect" from seeing not only that their "end time" doctrines are Scripturally impossible (HERE- HERE - HERE - HERE - HERE)...but has also made them unwitting allies of Satanís plan to destroy Bible-based Christianity. (The Preterit eschatology is equally impossible Scripturally [HERE] and is preventing millions from focusing on exposing the Copernican deception without which the whole Big Bang Paradigm with its evolutionism collapses.


Three: The leadership of the Creationist branch of what should be the Bibleís Special Forces not only ignores the fact that Copernicanism paved the way for Darwinism (HERE - HERE - HERE), but recklessly twists the non-moving Earth Scriptures to make them conform to Copernicanism in precisely the same way that they accuse "theistic evolutionists" of twisting Scriptures to support evolutionism (HERE - HERE - HERE). By recanting and taking a stand for Bible Geocentrism this same leadership could make a wave throughout Christendom that could not be stopped. Copernicanism is going down with or without them when Babylon Falls. Creationists fear they will look bad as scientists if they go against Copernicanism. Their real fear should be how bad they will look as Christians if they donít do it!!


Four: Until the research for the "Kabbala" series and "The Size and Structure of the Universe..." series on this web page was done, I did not fully understand nor realize that the current modified anti-Copernican Geocentricity Model delineated by Astronomer Dr. Gerardus Bouw in his books and articles cannot--in the final analysis--be either wholly Biblical or convincingly scientific.

***

Except for obstacle # Four, there are links listed above (et al) that address all of the chief problems standing in the way of a serious counter-attack against the Copernican foundation now upholding Kabbalic Big Bangism and the evolutionary mind-set that it presents to the world. Therefore, more about # Four is in order:

***

Can it be that the present Geocentricity Modelís Virtual Monopoly is itself a major (maybe the most major!) obstacle now keeping the lid on a Bible-mandated movement against the vulnerable Copernican Keystone now holding up Big Bang Evolutionary Cosmology??


In spite of the commendable efforts of Astronomer Dr. Bouw et al to champion the Non-Moving Earth Model and to try to convince Creationists and others that it is the best possible interpretation of plain geocentric Scriptures--and that it alone offers a viable mathematical alternative to the Big Bang Paradigm-- those efforts have had little impact. Among the chief reasons why current efforts to overturn Copernicanism with Dr. Bouwís Machian Model are stalled are these:


1) The Modified Tychonian Model now being used to combat Copernicanism accepts billions of light year distances to the stars and tries mathematically to apply a theoretical Machian explanation for how those stars could get around the earth nightly. The speeds required in such an explanation are simply unintelligible and the effort can never succeed. Yet, failure is not an option!


2) This Model has the sun as the center of the "solar system" and the Earth somewhat off center, albeit with the sun going around it daily. The Earth is stationary in this Model, but relevant only to the sun. Otherwise, the whole "solar system" is allegedly making a journey around the so-called Milky Way Galaxy of an alleged 100,000 light year diameter. In other words, this Model posits a sort-of stationary Earth, but accepts star distances so great that they canít go around the Earth nightly as the Biblical Model demands and all true evidence confirms (HERE).


3) This Model involves no awareness of the now documented and prerequisite fact that all of the essential features of todayís Big Bang Cosmology are found in ancient anti-Christ Kabbalic descriptions of the origins of the Universe. Without a keen awareness of this fact that todayís cosmology is the fulfillment of the "creation scenario" of Pharisaic Kabbalism (and simultaneously the destroyer of the Biblical "Creation Scenario"), no real understanding is possible of how a factless pagan evolutionary mythology (HERE - HERE) has been able to virtually conquer manís knowledge (HERE).

Bottom line: No Model that attempts to establish the Truth about the cosmos without an awareness of the uncompromising opposition of the Kabbalist Universe to the Biblical Universe--and the spiritual goals behind that opposition-- can ever arrive at the Truth about the cosmos, the success of evolutionism, and the near eradication of the Biblical cosmos in peopleís minds. Using cunning deceptions founded on occult mathematics and admitted magic and sorcery (HERE, p.9- HERE), the Kabbalist Model has succeeded in fooling most of the world into believing that evolutionism is a fact of science both on the earth and elsewhere in the universe. The only way to expose and destroy those deceptions is to pit them against a scientifically sustainable and purely Biblical Model such as that described in the seven part series entitled: "The Size and Structure of the Universe According to the Bible and Non-Theoretical Science" (begins HERE).

Also, it is quite possible that the reason why Creationist leaders and their followers are reluctant to back the plain non-moving earth Scriptures is because they canít see how the Machian Model can ever be credible. If this is the case, then, by all means, let them prayerfully consider all the above and then check out the links entitled "The Size and Structure of the Universe According to the Bible and Non-Theoretical Science". In those essays they will find the Biblical evidence and the scientific mechanism they need to confidently challenge the Copernican key to overturning the terrestrial evolution lies which they have prepared so long and well to do.

As for those now supporting the Machian Model (obstacle # Four) because it has given them a seemingly scientific reason to back the non-moving earth Scriptures which they cannot ignore or alter, it is time to realize that both Scripture and Science mandate a universe without those billions of light year distances...a universe with a radius of no more than one light day (and very likely substantially smaller!) with the Earth at the very center.

***

A dozen years of feedback since beginning my active involvement in this issue has left me with no doubt that there are hundreds of millions of people of all religions and no religion--Creationists and non-Creationists alike--who will eagerly accept the exposure of the Kabbalic Universe which not only requires the evolution of everything but also removes a Personal God with an Eternal Plan for those who seek His Truth and abhor Satanís lies (when they are shown which is which:[2 Thess.2:10]). This multitude will welcome the truth that the Earth is stationary at the precise center of a universe that is a mere 6000 years old and less than one light day thick. Begin (HERE) to understand not only how the non-moving Earth Scriptures are upheld in a way that is rock solid and scientifically defensible, but also how baseless assumptions (HERE) and outright fraud (HERE - HERE - HERE) have established the lie of a 15 billion year old and 15 billion light year thick Big Bang Evolutionary "Origins Scenario" of the religion of mystic Kabbalism disguised as "science".


Mindful of that eagerness for Truth alone that motivates a certain percentage of people everywhere, the Biblical, historical, and technical understanding required to construct such a solid and defensible model finally became clear to me in the year just past. And along with that requirement came an understanding of the nature of the Spiritual Warfare that surrounds this issue and cannot be separated from it.


Indeed, facts long hidden but now available to all, declare that--beginning in earnest with the Copernican Revolution-- there has been a methodical establishment of a Cosmological Model which teaches an Evolved Universe, Earth, and Mankind over some 15 billion years (a figure given by Kabbalist Rabbi HaKana in the 1st century A.D. and reiterated by Kabbalist physicist Schroeder et al currently: HERE - HERE). Now swarming with Kabbalist Saganís factless fantasy of evolving extraterrestrials (HERE, pp.3,4 - HERE, pp.14,15 - HERE), this "origins scenario" has become the fulfillment of the Kabbalaís agenda of establishing creation by evolutionism in manís mind. This fantasy has nearly replaced the Bibleís Personal God with the Christ-hating Talmud/ Kabbalist non-gíd concept. That concept has been promoted over the centuries by a mere handful of Rabbinical writers such as: HaKana, Maimonides, Nachmanides, and Luria (HERE). "Scientists" Einstein, Friedmann, Le Maitre, Bohr, Gamow, Penzias, Sagan, Wickramasinghe et al have turned the fantasy into "science" (HERE).


Therefore, any effort to challenge the Copernican Model which doesnít include this acknowledgment and understanding of the role of Pharisaic Talmudism/ Kabbalismís use of a Theoretical Science Establishment to achieve its anti-Bible, anti-Christ religious goals is a futile effort. Creationists in particular are honor-bound to embrace this Biblically mandated understanding and openly challenge the totally factless, assumption-ridden pseudo-science that has succeeded in implanting an evolution-powered "origins scenario" for all that exists in the worldís "science textbooks".. while nearly destroying Biblical credibility from A to Z.


Christians who read of "science falsely so called" (I Timothy 6:20,21) are warned to "avoid" all such "science" because it is nothing more than "profane and vain babblings and oppositions to true science". What is hard to grasp at first--but must be grasped-- is the incredible extent to which those profane and vain babblings of false science have fooled all of us...whatever our backgrounds have been.


When it is realized that the entire formulation of the Kabbalist Model rests on the quicksand of vulnerable Copernican Heliocentricity, all who desire Truth over lies will know where to focus their attack. Darwinism (and its evolution-based brood: Communism, Freudianism, Einsteinism, Saganism...) would all have been stillborn if the Copernican Revolution hadnít paved the way for evolutionís success (HERE, pp.52-65 - HERE, pp.1,2,11; HERE - HERE).


The Earth Is Not Moving! Period! The beginning of the end of the evolution mythology underlying all of modern manís "knowledge" starts with investigating and then accepting and acting upon that demonstrable fact....
http://www.fixedearth.com/Machian%20Model%20Obstacle.htm

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  #222  
Old 11-29-2005, 01:20 PM
Indred Indred is offline
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Default Re: The Earth is NOT Moving!

I understand that the red shift and the blue shift theory has been called into question. This would mean that the size of the universe and the distance to other detectable objects in the universe is incorrect. Some quasars have been found that appear to have tenuous filaments that connect them with particular galaxies. The Doppler shifts of the connected objects do not agree. The quasars have been thought to be at great distances, but their associated galaxies are fairly close. This could indicate a radically smaller universe with the Earth central.
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  #223  
Old 11-30-2005, 12:00 PM
John_1335 John_1335 is offline
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Default Re: The Earth is NOT Moving!

Introduction
As Christians, many of us have found the scientific evidence for the Big Bang, evolution, etc., to be quite convincing. So convincing, in fact, that we try to combine these theories with our belief in God. Some people believe that God probably created the universe by causing the "Big Bang," and then He allowed the universe to evolve for the next 15 billion years exactly as science describes. In addition, some people believe that God probably created the first single-cell lifeforms in the primordial soup, and then He allowed them to evolve for billions of years until humans developed, exactly as science describes. The "problem" of the six days of Creation is solved by assuming that they refer to six eons of time, each lasting billions of years. This seems like a nice, neat way to believe in God and to believe these scientific theories, both at the same time. Other Christians have similar views (such as "progressive Creationism," "theistic evolution," etc.) which attempt to combine these scientific theories with Biblical facts.

But there's a problem with all of those views. In a few moments we will compare the Creation account and the scientific explanations, point by point, and we will see quite clearly that they contradict each other on essentially every point. They cannot be combined into a single explanation as many Christians want to do.

The Bible Is the Inerrant, Infallible Word of God

Before we begin studying what God has to say about Creation vs. any kind of evolution (such as the evolution of the universe since the Big Bang, or the evolution of life on earth), let's take a look at some foundational truths of the Christian faith. First, who knows more about science, God or human scientists? Obviously the answer must be God. Okay, who knows more about how the universe was formed, God or human scientists? Again, the answer must be God. Now, who knows more about how life on earth came into being and how humans were formed, God or human scientists? God again. If there is a conflict between what God says and what human scientists say, whom should we trust? We should trust what God says.

In describing the Bible as the inerrant, infallible Word of God, R. C. Sproul says this:

"the Holy Spirit communicated through the human authors the very words of God. Christians affirm the infallibility and inerrancy of the Bible because God is ultimately the author of the Bible. And because God is incapable of inspiring falsehood, His word is altogether true and trustworthy." (Essential Truths of the Christian Faith, R. C. Sproul, p.15-16, emphasis added).
It is one of the essential truths of the Christian faith that the original books of the Bible were infallible and inerrant. God wrote the Bible (through human authors under the guidance and inspiration of the Holy Spirit), and therefore it is true, it is trustworthy, and it says what God wanted it to say. This means that if God's explanation (Special Creation) conflicts with the world's explanation (the various scientific theories) then we should believe what God says, right?

Science and Genesis Examined Point by Point

God is omniscient, and He knew that human scientists would some day come up with the Big Bang theory and the theory of evolution (among other theories). We are about to see that God performed His acts of Creation in such a way that they specifically contradict man's theories.

Dr. Carl Sagan was one of the most well-known scientists of our times, and on the back cover of his book, Cosmos, the Associated Press said that he was "one of the most brilliant scientists of our times." Here is how Dr. Sagan described the modern evolutionary theories:


"Ten or twenty billion years ago, something happened - the Big Bang, the event that began our universe. Why it happened is the greatest mystery we know." (Cosmos (paperback edition), Carl Sagan, p.200)
"Massive stars soon exhausted their stores of nuclear fuel. Rocked by colossal explosions, they returned most of their substance back into the thin gas from which they had once condensed. Here in the dark lush clouds between the stars, new raindrops made of many elements were forming, later generations of stars being born. Nearby, smaller raindrops grew, bodies far too little to ignite the nuclear fire, droplets in the interstellar mist on their way to form the planets. Among them was a small world of stone and iron, the early Earth. Congealing and warming, the Earth released the methane, ammonia, water and hydrogen gases that had been trapped within, forming the primitive atmosphere and the first oceans." (Cosmos (paperback edition), Carl Sagan, p.282)

"For most of the four billion years since the origin of life, the dominant organisms were microscopic blue-green algae, which covered and filled the oceans. ... In rapid succession, the first fish and the first vertebrates appeared; plants, previously restricted to the oceans, began the colonization of the land; the first insect evolved, and its descendants became the pioneers in the colonization of the land by animals; winged insects arose together with the amphibians, creatures something like the lungfish, able to survive both on land and in the water; the first trees and the first reptiles appeared; the dinosaurs evolved; the mammals emerged, and then the first birds; the first flowers appeared; the dinosaurs became extinct; the earliest cetaceans, ancestors to the dolphins and whales, arose and in the same period the primates - the ancestors of the monkeys, the apes and the humans." (Cosmos (paperback edition), Carl Sagan, p.22-23)

Now let's compare the modern scientific theories (described in the quotes above) with the Creation account in Genesis, point by point, to see how completely incompatible they are:

Science: The universe has been evolving for billions of years after the Big Bang.

Genesis: God created the universe in six days (Genesis 1:1-31). Later in this article we will examine many reasons why these were literal, 24-hour days.

Science: The sun and most of the stars evolved before the earth was formed.

Genesis: The earth was created before the sun and stars (the earth on the first day - Genesis 1:2-5, the sun and stars on the fourth day - Genesis 1:14-19).

Science: The earth started off as "a small world of stone and iron." There was dry land before the first oceans were formed.

Genesis: The oceans were created before dry land (oceans on the first day - Genesis 1:2-7, dry land on the third day - Genesis 1:9-12).

Science: The first lifeforms evolved in the oceans.

Genesis: The first forms of life were plants on dry land (on the third day - Genesis 1:9-12).

Science: Fish evolved in the oceans before plants appeared on land.

Genesis: Plants and trees were created on land before fish were created (plants and trees on the third day - Genesis 1:9-13, fish on the fifth day - Genesis 1:20-23).

Science: Fish evolved millions of years before birds.

Genesis: Fish and birds were created during the same 24-hour period (the fifth day - Genesis 1:20-23).

Science: Reptiles evolved before whales (which are mammals).

Genesis: Whales were created before reptiles (whales on the fifth day - Genesis 1:20-23, reptiles on the sixth day - Genesis 1:24-31).

Science: Reptiles and land mammals evolved before birds.

Genesis: Birds were created before reptiles and land mammals (birds on the fifth day - Genesis 1:20-23, reptiles and land mammals on the sixth day - Genesis 1:24-31).

Science: Sea mammals (the ancestors of dolphins and whales) arose in the same period as the first primates (the ancestors of monkeys and humans).

Genesis: Sea mammals were created before monkeys and humans (sea mammals on the fifth day - Genesis 1:20-23, monkeys and humans on the sixth day - Genesis 1:24-31).

Science: Life evolved by gradually changing from one type of lifeform into a new kind of lifeform.

Genesis: Life was created "according to their various kinds" (Genesis 1:11, 12, 21, 24, 25). Genesis reveals that God created each kind of animal without any hint of an evolutionary process. It is significant that plants and animals were all created "according to their kinds," but humans were created "in the image of God" (Genesis 1:27). From the beginning, humans were created to be different from the animals. Humans did not evolve from any animals.


Notice that it is quite clear that the Creation account and the scientific theories completely contradict each other. There are essentially no points of agreement between the modern scientific theories (aka Kabbala) and the Biblical account of Creation. It is easy to see that they are totally incompatible with each other, and that they cannot be merged or combined into a single explanation. If you still are not convinced, try this. Go back over the points listed above and see if you can find a way to merge the two views together. It can't be done. Only one of these explanations can be true, which means that the other explanation must be false. As Christians, are we going to believe the world's explanation (the various scientific theories), or are we going to believe God's explanation (Special Creation)?

A Simple Explanation for a Simple People?

Some people believe that the Creation account in Genesis was probably just a simple explanation that was written for the unscientific people who lived long ago, and therefore we shouldn't take it too literally. The idea is that it is similar to the harmless story about the stork leaving a baby on the doorstep, which people sometimes tell children who are too young to understand about human reproduction.

But isn't this a naive way to approach Bible interpretation? After all, the story about the stork is a falsehood. It is a lie. In a similar way, if the modern scientific theories are true then the account of Creation is a falsehood, a lie. Notice that if there is any truth to the scientific theories listed in the points above (as many Christians believe there is), then we are left with two possibilities:

The Creation account was not inspired by God. It was written by a human who got the scientific facts wrong.

-- OR --

God inspired the Creation account, but He deliberately lied to us (because the Creation account in the Bible contradicts the scientific theories on virtually every point).


Those are the two possibilities we are left with if there is any truth to the scientific theories concerning the Big Bang, evolution, and so on.

Notice that if those scientific theories are true and Genesis is false then we have no way of knowing which parts of the Bible can be trusted. The entire Bible becomes useless to us, because if God got the facts wrong in the very first chapter of the Bible then for all we know He might have gotten the facts wrong elsewhere in the Bible as well!

However, 2 Timothy 3:16 tells us that all Scripture is "God-breathed" (which means "given by inspiration of God," according to Strong's Greek Dictionary). This means that the Creation account in Genesis was directly inspired by God, and it means that the Creation account says exactly what God wanted it to say. Titus 1:2 tells us that God does not lie, and Hebrews 6:18 says that it is impossible for God to lie. Therefore, the Creation account is absolutely true and absolutely to be trusted. Recall what the eminent theologian R. C. Sproul said:

"the Holy Spirit communicated through the human authors the very words of God. Christians affirm the infallibility and inerrancy of the Bible because God is ultimately the author of the Bible. And because God is incapable of inspiring falsehood, His word is altogether true and trustworthy." (Essential Truths of the Christian Faith, R. C. Sproul, p.15-16, emphasis added).
We have already seen that the Creation account and the scientific theories completely contradict each other. This means that we must choose to believe one explanation and that we must reject the other explanation, because God has not given us the option of having it both ways. The very first words of the Bible show that man's theories of evolution (both the evolution of the universe and the evolution of humans) are not as accurate as they appear to be. Our human minds might be convinced by the scientific evidence, but God warns us against trusting in our wisdom and intelligence when He says:

"For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate." Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe." (1 Corinthians 1:19-21)

"Do not deceive yourselves. If any one of you thinks he is wise by the standards of this age, he should become a "fool" so that he may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight. As it is written: "He catches the wise in their craftiness"; and again, "The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile."" (1 Corinthians 3:18-20)

"Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to your care. Turn away from godless chatter and the opposing ideas of what is falsely called knowledge, which some have professed and in so doing have wandered from the faith. Grace be with you." (1 Timothy 6:20-21)

Wisdom and intelligence are certainly good things to have, but we're getting ourselves into a dangerous area when we place the "wisdom" of the world (man's scientific theories in this case) on a higher pedestal than the Word of God. God specifically says in the passages above that we should become "fools" as far as the things of this world are concerned so that we can become wise in the things of God.

"With the Lord a Day Is Like a Thousand Years..."

Notice what 2 Peter 3:8 says:

"But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day." (2 Peter 3:8)

Based on this verse, well-meaning Christians sometimes assume that the word "day" can be symbolic for "a thousand years." They take this to mean that each "day" of Creation is probably symbolic for a very long time. But let's think about that for a moment. Should every occurrence of the word "day" in the Bible be substituted with the phrase "a thousand years"? Obviously not. Then what criteria are we using which tells us that it is proper to substitute the phrase "a thousand years" for the word "day" in certain parts of Genesis but not in other parts of Genesis? It is easy to see that when people come up with this "solution," they are basing it on their feelings and reasonings rather than using solid methods of Bible interpretation.

Bible teachers point out that we must be very careful not to try to fit the Bible into our own preconceived ideas. For example, if we decide that the word "day" can be symbolic for "a thousand years" (based on 2 Peter 3:8, above), and then we decide that the phrase "a thousand years" can be symbolic for "a very long time" (based on a guess), and then we decide that "a very long time" can be symbolic for "billions of years" (based on what scientists say), and then we decide to substitute "billions of years" for some (but not all!) occurrences of the word "day" in Genesis (based on our own preconceived ideas), then we are turning Bible interpretation into a mere game and making a mockery of Scripture. Consider that the ancient Greek versions of the Old and New Testaments use the same Greek word for "day" in Genesis that they use in the Gospels. Notice that if we substitute the phrase "billions of years" for the word "day" in the Gospels just like some people want to do in Genesis, then we would end up with Jesus fasting in the wilderness for 40 billion years and lying in the tomb for 3 billion years. Obviously we can't just go around making symbolic substitutions in the Bible wherever we feel like it!

It is true that the Bible sometimes uses symbolism, but these symbols have very specific meanings which are usually explained elsewhere in Scripture. It is dangerous to use "symbolism" as an excuse to rationalize away certain parts of Scripture which don't appeal to us, because this can lead us into error. It is important to have legitimate reasons and evidence for interpreting Biblical passages as being symbolic, and what we will see in this article is that there is ample evidence in the Bible that the six days of Creation were six literal 24-hour days and not six eons of time. For example, John Walvoord and Roy Zuck, in their commentary on the Old Testament (p.28), point out that everywhere the word "day" appears in the Old Testament in connection with a number (for example the "forty days" that Moses spent on Mt. Sinai (Exodus 24:18) and the "three days" that Jonah spent inside the great fish (Jonah 1:17)), it always refers to a literal 24-hour day. Since this holds true throughout the entire Old Testament, we can be confident that it holds true in Genesis as well. We would need to have solid reasons and evidence for interpreting "day" as "billions of years" in Genesis, but the evidence that we find throughout Scripture gives us plenty of reason for interpreting "day" as "day," as we will see in the next section.

Also, notice that if we say that each "day" of Creation was really an eon of time lasting billions of years, this still does not bring the Bible and the scientific theories into agreement. If we really believe this "one day equals one eon" theory, then we are saying that the earth evolved during the first eon (Genesis 1:2-5), and that the stars all evolved during the fourth eon (Genesis 1:14-19). This is completely in the reverse order from the scientific explanation, which shows how impossible this "one day equals one eon" theory really is. No matter how you look at it, either the world's explanation (the various scientific theories) must be rejected, or else God's explanation (Special Creation) must be rejected. They are completely incompatible and they cannot be combined into a single explanation.

Some Christians try to fit the scientific theories and the Bible together by saying that the "days" of Creation in Genesis were actually eons of time which overlapped each other. This seems to "solve" some of the problems we saw when we examined the scientific theories and the Creation account point by point (above). The argument is that if some of the Creation days "overlapped" each other then the Biblical descriptions would fit better with the scientific theories. But consider the first six days of the week: Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. Notice that those are all individual days for the specific reason that Sunday comes to an end before Monday begins, and Monday comes to an end before Tuesday begins, and Tuesday comes to an end before Wednesday begins, and Wednesday comes to an end before Thursday begins, and Thursday comes to an end before Friday begins. Notice that it makes no sense to talk about Sunday "overlapping" Monday. For example, if we were in a period when Sunday "overlaps" Monday, then would we say that it is now Sunday, or would we say that it is now Monday, or would we say that it is now Sunday and Monday, or would we say that it is neither Sunday nor Monday? We can see that Sunday and Monday would no longer be separate, individual days if they "overlapped" each other. Consider how our bosses would react if we email them on the weekend and say that we won't be back to work until Thursday because our Sunday is going to overlap Monday and Tuesday and Wednesday, which means that our weekend will last until Wednesday night. No-one's boss would ever buy that argument because it is unreasonable and it makes no sense. Yet some Christians try to force the Creation account to fit into the scientific theories by saying, for example, that the 5th day of Creation partly overlapped the 3rd and 4th days, and probably overlapped the 6th day as well (see for example The dubious apologetics of Hugh Ross and Exposť of The Genesis Question). Again, such an argument makes no sense. As soon as we say that several days overlapped each other then we no longer have individual days. The reason why we have individual days which we call "Sunday," "Monday," "Tuesday," etc., is because each day comes to an end before the next day begins. In the same way, the Creation account specifically refers to six individual days of Creation, with no mention of any "overlapping." The only reason why people would try to impose this idea of "overlapping" onto the Creation account is because they have elevated science to a higher position of authority than the Bible, and therefore they feel that they must manipulate the Bible until it conforms to the "truth" (i.e. the scientific theories).




Literal 24-hour Days
In your Bible, take a close look at Genesis 1:1-31 and then consider the following points:

In Genesis 1:5, 8, 13, 19, 23, and 31, notice that when each Creation day is mentioned it always follows a specific pattern: "And there was evening, and there was morning --the first day." If we claim that each day of Creation lasted for billions of years, then how would we explain the very specific phrase, "And there was evening, and there was morning"? God does not do things haphazardly, so it was no accident that He phrased it in this way. Evenings and mornings are part of a 24-hour day, this wording makes no sense if each Creation day lasted for billions of years.

In Genesis 1:5, notice that God created "night" and "day" (the word "day" comes from the Hebrew word yom) on the first "day" (yom) of Creation. If we believe that the word "day" really means "billions of years," then what does the word "night" refer to? The words "day" and "night" refer to a normal 24-hour period, not billions of years.

In Genesis 1:14-19, notice that God created lights (the sun and the moon) to separate the day (yom) from the night and to mark the seasons and days (yom) and years. Verse 16 says that these two great lights were created to govern the day (yom) and the night, and verse 18 repeats the fact that these two great lights were created to govern the day (yom) and the night. In verse 19 we are told that these two great lights were created on the fourth day (yom) of Creation.

The Hebrew word yom ("day") occurs five times in this passage, and it is clear that the first four occurrences are referring to normal days rather than billions of years. Notice that there is nothing in this passage to indicate that the last occurrence of yom ("the fourth day") should be treated any differently than the other four occurrences of yom.

Consider that if we interpret the first four occurrences of the Hebrew word yom as meaning "day," but we interpret the last occurrence of the Hebrew word yom as meaning "billions of years" (in the same passage), then we are applying inconsistent rules of Bible interpretation. This inconsistency often happens when we are trying to force the Bible to fit into our preconceived views. However, the Scriptural evidence consistently demonstrates that each day of Creation was a normal 24-hour day.


Notice that Adam and Eve were created on the sixth day, and notice that they were still alive on the seventh day and beyond. Did Adam and Eve live for several billion years?

In Genesis 2:2-3, notice what happened on the seventh day: God rested from His work, and then He blessed the seventh day and made it holy. Did He bless the "seventh eon"? Did He make the "seventh billion years" holy? No, He blessed the seventh day. This is significant because God commanded the Israelites to set aside the seventh day, the Sabbath day, as a holy day of rest in honor of the fact that God Himself rested on the seventh day. In fact, observing the holy seventh day was so important to God that it became one of the Ten Commandments, and anyone who desecrated it had to be put to death! Notice in the following passages that God says He made the heavens and the earth in six days and rested on the seventh:

"And God spoke all these words: ... [the Fourth Commandment] "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy."" (Exodus 20:1,8-11)

"Then the LORD said to Moses, "Say to the Israelites, 'You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it must be put to death; whoever does any work on that day must be cut off from his people. For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death. The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested.'"" (Exodus 31:12-17)

Can we honestly say with absolute certainty that the six days of Creation in these passages are meant to be anything other than normal 24-hour days? Let's look at these two passages again, focusing specifically on what God said about the "six days":

"And God spoke all these words: "... Six days you shall labor and do all your work... For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth"" (Exodus 20:1,8-11)

"Then the LORD said to Moses, "...For six days, work is to be done... for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth"" (Exodus 31:12-17)

Notice that God made a direct comparison between His six days of Creation and the Israelites' six days of work. But if the scientific theories are true then these verses would mean, "For six days, work is to be done...for in 15 billion years the LORD made the heavens and the earth." This makes no sense as a direct comparison. In the above passages, the reason why the Israelites' six days of work and God's six days of Creation can be directly compared is because they are the same length of time.

The above points all demonstrate that each day of Creation was literally a 24-hour day, not an eon of time lasting billions of years.

Now, if Creation really took six normal, 24-hour days, then the obvious question to ask is why God took six days to do something which He could have done in an instant. It is clear from the passages above that in taking six days to do His work and then resting on the seventh day, God was establishing a pattern for the Israelites to follow. In the two passages above we can see that to God, the issue of six days of Creation was so important that:


The observance of the seventh day of rest in honor of the six days of Creation is one of the Ten Commandments.

Anyone who violated the seventh day of rest had to be put to death.

The seventh day of rest was a lasting covenant for the generations to come as a sign that it was God who made them holy.
This is obviously something that God considered to be extremely important! None of this makes any sense if the six days of Creation really took 10 to 15 billion years. God keeps hammering the point home in the Bible that it is important for us to understand that Creation took six literal days and that He rested from His work on the seventh day. If you need more proof, take a look at the following passages and see how the six days of Creation are a pattern that God returns to again and again:


"Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy." (Exodus 20:8-11)

"When Moses went up on the mountain, the cloud covered it, and the glory of the LORD settled on Mount Sinai. For six days the cloud covered the mountain, and on the seventh day the LORD called to Moses from within the cloud." (Exodus 24:15-16)

"Each morning everyone gathered as much [manna] as he needed, and when the sun grew hot, it melted away. On the sixth day, they gathered twice as much--two omers for each person--and the leaders of the community came and reported this to Moses. He said to them, "This is what the LORD commanded: 'Tomorrow is to be a day of rest, a holy Sabbath to the LORD. So bake what you want to bake and boil what you want to boil. Save whatever is left and keep it until morning.'" So they saved it until morning, as Moses commanded, and it did not stink or get maggots in it. "Eat it today," Moses said, "because today is a Sabbath to the LORD. You will not find any of it on the ground today. Six days you are to gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will not be any." Nevertheless, some of the people went out on the seventh day to gather it, but they found none. Then the LORD said to Moses, "How long will you refuse to keep my commands and my instructions? Bear in mind that the LORD has given you the Sabbath; that is why on the sixth day he gives you bread for two days. Everyone is to stay where he is on the seventh day; no one is to go out." So the people rested on the seventh day." (Exodus 16:21-30)

"[At Passover time] For six days eat unleavened bread and on the seventh day hold an assembly to the LORD your God and do no work." (Deuteronomy 16:8)

"Now Jericho was tightly shut up because of the Israelites. No one went out and no one came in. Then the LORD said to Joshua, "See, I have delivered Jericho into your hands, along with its king and its fighting men. March around the city once with all the armed men. Do this for six days. Have seven priests carry trumpets of rams' horns in front of the ark. On the seventh day, march around the city seven times, with the priests blowing the trumpets." (Joshua 6:1-4)

"When the LORD brings you into the land of the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Hivites and Jebusites--the land he swore to your forefathers to give you, a land flowing with milk and honey--you are to observe this ceremony in this month: For seven days eat bread made without yeast and on the seventh day hold a festival to the LORD. Eat unleavened bread during those seven days; nothing with yeast in it is to be seen among you, nor shall any yeast be seen anywhere within your borders." (Exodus 13:5-7)

"Do not leave the entrance to the Tent of Meeting for seven days, until the days of your ordination are completed, for your ordination will last seven days." (Leviticus 8:33)

We can see that by taking six days to create the heavens and the earth and then resting on the seventh day, God was establishing a pattern that He felt was extremely important. Bear in mind that the Bible is filled with patterns such as these and that God does not do things without a reason. The Bible is too specific about the six literal days of Creation for us to be able to rationalize them away as being six eons, each lasting billions of years. The question is, are we going to exalt science above God, or are we going to exalt God above science?

What About All of the Scientific Evidence?
If you still are not ready to put your complete faith and trust in God when it comes to science vs. Creation, it is probably because you are thinking some of these types of thoughts:


"But what about the scientific evidence for the Big Bang (or the string theory, etc.) and the age of the universe? What about the fossil record and all of the scientific data that seems to be perfectly logical and seems to refute the Biblical account of Creation? What about the proven examples of evolution that are happening today? I can't just disregard all of the scientific facts that I have always been taught!"

When it comes to science, keep in mind that there are many scientists who believe in the Big Bang theory and the theory of evolution, but there are many other scientists who believe that the scientific evidence proves the Creation account in the Bible. Therefore, it all boils down to which set of scientists you choose to believe! It still comes down to a question of faith. For example, Dr. Kent Hovind has a website in which he says, "I have a standing offer of $250,000 to anyone who can give any empirical evidence (scientific proof) for evolution. My $250,000 offer demonstrates that the hypothesis of evolution is nothing more than a religious belief" (see http://www.drdino.com/Ministry/250k/index.jsp). In over a decade, no-one has ever claimed the money. So the all-important question is whether our faith rests on the word of the non-Christian scientists, or whether our faith rests totally on God.

Now, don't get me wrong, I realize that some "evolutionary" and "Big Bang" scientists are Christians. Still, that doesn't change the fact that the Big Bang (or other scientific "origins" theories) and evolution are the only answers which the non-Christian scientists have, and when there is a conflict between what they say and what God says, I'll stand with God every time. Actually, I have studied the evidence for the Big Bang, the age of the universe, the theory of evolution, etc., and some of it sounds fairly convincing to my logical mind. I enjoy science, and I recognize that there can be changing varieties within the different kinds of plants, animals, and other organisms (which is why we have "superbugs" that are resistant to antibiotics, for example). However, this ongoing process that we see happening in the world around us is called "microevolution" by scientists, and it is defined as "the gradual accumulation of mutations leading to new varieties within a species" (Webster's American Family Dictionary). It is not macroevolution, which is defined as a "major evolutionary change of species" (Webster's American Family Dictionary). The examples of microevolution that we can demonstrate in the world around us do not prove the theory of evolution, as any scientist will tell you. I would be perfectly happy to believe that we humans were formed through evolution if that view agreed with the overwhelming testimony of Scripture. But it doesn't. The internal testimony throughout the entire Bible is completely consistent and is completely in opposition to man's scientific theories about the Big Bang and evolution and so on. Therefore, I choose to believe God's Word no matter how convincing some of the scientific evidence might be. God is always right! Recall what the apostle Paul said:

"We live by faith, not by sight." (2 Corinthians 5:7)

"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. This is what the ancients were commended for. By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible." (Hebrews 11:1-3)

It doesn't matter what we see in the physical evidence for the Big Bang, the theory of evolution, etc., our faith is meant to be based on what God says. God says that everything was made by His hand, and He says that the person He esteems is someone who is humble and who trembles at His Word:

""Has not my hand made all these things, and so they came into being?" declares the LORD. "This is the one I esteem: he who is humble and contrite in spirit, and trembles at my word."" (Isaiah 66:2)

If we choose to believe the world's explanation for our existence (the Big Bang, evolution, etc.) and we dismiss God's explanation (Special Creation), then we can't honestly say that we are humbly trembling at the truth of His Word, can we? Instead, we would be exalting the world's view simply because it is so appealing to our flesh. But watch! The Bible specifically says that the mind of the flesh is hostile to God and is contrary to the Spirit and is in conflict with the Holy Spirit:

"the sinful mind [literally, "the mind of the flesh"] is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature [literally, "those being in the flesh"] cannot please God." (Romans 8:7-8)

"For the sinful nature [literally, "the flesh"] desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature [literally, "the flesh"]. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want." (Galatians 5:17)

Many Christians have the mistaken impression that the devil is our worst enemy. But that is a false notion. The Bible tells us over and over that our worst enemy is our sinful flesh nature, meaning our minds, our wills, and our emotions (for more on this, I invite you to see my article called How to Hear the Voice of God). This means that we must be very careful about putting our faith in things which make sense to our minds instead of putting our faith in God's Word, because the mind of the flesh is continually in conflict with the mind of God!

Since I am not a scientist, I won't try to discuss any of the scientific evidence for the Big Bang, the theory of evolution, and so on. I recognize that I'm not qualified to give any opinions on the scientific evidence. Instead, let me just ask this simple question, if I may: Isn't it a bit presumptuous to expect God to do things in ways that make sense to us? God humbles us when He says:

"Can you fathom the mysteries of God? Can you probe the limits of the Almighty? They are higher than the heavens--what can you do? They are deeper than the depths of the grave --what can you know?" (Job 11:7-8)

"Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand. Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! Who stretched a measuring line across it? On what were its footings set, or who laid its cornerstone--while the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy?" (Job 38:4-7)

""For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD. "As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts"" (Isaiah 55:8-9)

There are many examples in the Bible which demonstrate that God operates in a way that is quite the opposite from the way that makes logical sense to us, such as:

"Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth." (Matthew 5:5)

"whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it." (Matthew 16:25)

"So the last will be first, and the first will be last." (Matthew 20:16)

"whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant" (Matthew 20:26)

"whoever wants to be first must be your slave" (Matthew 20:27)

"whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted." (Matthew 23:12)

"Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you" (Luke 6:27)

"bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you." (Luke 6:28)

"If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic." (Luke 6:29)

"if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back." (Luke 6:30)

"love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back." (Luke 6:35)

"It is more blessed to give than to receive." (Acts 20:35)

God does things for purposes which we cannot fathom and in ways that are opposite to the ways that our "logical" minds would do them. So why should we be surprised that He would choose to create life and the universe in a way that makes little sense to us? He knows the future, so why should we be surprised that He would choose to create life and the universe in a way that would one day directly contradict the non-Christian world's scientific theories? Remember, His ways are higher than our ways and His thoughts are higher than our thoughts.

As far as the scientific evidence for the Big Bang, the theory of evolution, etc., which we were always taught, there are many scientists who disagree with these theories. Visit your local Christian bookstore and you'll find many books which discuss the problems with these theories from a scientific perspective. Let the Holy Spirit be your guide.

Now, for the sake of discussion let's take Genesis literally for a moment and then consider the implications. Let's assume that Creation took six normal 24-hour days and that Adam was created on the sixth day, just as the Bible says. Imagine that Adam had access to all of our modern scientific instruments at the moment he was created, and that he knew how to use them. How old would Adam say that the universe was? If Adam had all of the knowledge and intelligence of Carl Sagan, and if Adam had all of our modern computers and scientific instruments, then Adam would have erroneously concluded that the universe was billions of years old, even though it had just been created a few days earlier! Think about it for a moment. According to science, it would have taken billions of years for all of the stars out there to have been formed by stellar evolution. Therefore, if God created the entire universe in six normal days then the universe would have the appearance of being billions of years old, even though it had just been created. Do you see that? For example, if God snaps His fingers and another star is instantly created, burning brightly, then that star will look like it had been through billions of years of stellar formation. So when scientists say that the universe appears to be billions of years old, we don't have to argue with them, we can agree with them because this is consistent with the literal interpretation of Genesis. It's almost as if God in His omniscience chose a moment in time, a snapshot so to speak, and then pieced that snapshot of the universe together in six days like we would piece together a jigsaw puzzle. Does this mean that God was being deceptive by making it look as if there had been a Big Bang, and as if the universe had evolved for billions of years, and as if we were formed by evolution (according to the fossil record and other scientific evidence)? Not at all. Why? Because on the very first page of His Book He announced loudly and clearly exactly what He did. No attempt at deception there!

Natural Selection
Here is another area in which the Bible contradicts the theory of evolution.

If the theory of evolution is true then natural selection in the animal kingdom played a part in the evolutionary process. In other words, the weaker members of a species were killed off by hungry predators, while the stronger members survived and passed their genes on to their offspring. This is often called "survival of the fittest." But once again we can see that God performed His acts of Creation in ways that specifically contradict the theory of evolution, because the Bible says that before the Flood there were no meat-eating animals! (For more on the Flood, I invite you to see my article called Do You Interpret Creation Literally?). There were no predators on earth before the Flood, and therefore there could not have been this type of natural selection or "survival of the fittest" in the animal kingdom before the Flood. Notice that this explains why the meat-eating predators did not kill off other species of animals for food during the long months in the ark: There weren't any meat-eating predators on the ark! As the following passages show, all animals and humans were plant-eaters until after the Flood:


"[before the Flood] So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. ... Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground-- everything that has the breath of life in it--I give every green plant for food." And it was so." (Genesis 1:27-30)

"[after the Flood] Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth. The fear and dread of you will fall upon all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air, upon every creature that moves along the ground, and upon all the fish of the sea; they are given into your hands. Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything."" (Genesis 9:1-3)

So God says that before the Flood, all humans and animals on earth were vegetarian, which completely contradicts the theory of evolution.

For further proof of this, notice in the following prophetic passages that God tells us that wild animals will one day be restored to that harmless, vegetarian, pre-Fall state:

"[Jesus] must remain in heaven until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets." (Acts 3:21)

"The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them. The cow will feed with the bear, their young will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox. The infant will play near the hole of the cobra, and the young child put his hand into the viper's nest. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain, for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD as the waters cover the sea." (Isaiah 11:6-9)

""The wolf and the lamb will feed together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox, but dust will be the serpent's food. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain," says the LORD." (Isaiah 65:25)

Since all humans and animals were initially vegetarians, there could not have been this type of natural selection in the animal kingdom before the Flood (hungry predators killing off the weaker members of other species for food). This type of natural selection is a vital part of the theory of evolution, so once again we can see that the Bible and the theory of evolution are completely incompatible.
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Old 11-30-2005, 12:04 PM
John_1335 John_1335 is offline
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Default Re: The Earth is NOT Moving!

Continued..

The Fall
According to the Bible, when Adam and Eve were created they enjoyed a sinless state of perfection which has never been seen on earth since then. The ground did not produce any such things as thorns or thistles (these came after the Fall - Genesis 3:17-19), wild animals did not kill other animals for food (as we saw in the previous section), and death did not exist for humans (sin and death were a direct result of the Fall - see Romans 5:12 below). So the Bible describes an ideal state which existed in the plant realm, the animal realm, and the human realm. However, God had given Adam and Eve free will, and they disobeyed His direct command. As a result of Adam's disobedience (which we call "the Fall"), sin and death and decay entered the world:

"Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned" (Romans 5:12)

"For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God." (Romans 8:20-21)

Notice that God says that death and decay were a direct result of the Fall! This is incompatible with the theory of evolution.

According to the modern evolutionary theory, the first human evolved in a world filled with a constant tooth-and-claw, life-and-death, struggle for daily survival. The first human was not sinless or perfect, living in an ideal environment, it was simply a new animal struggling for its own daily survival in a harsh and dangerous world.

Now watch! The theory of evolution does not allow for an ideal state of perfection in the plant and animal realms, nor does it allow for a state of perfection and sinlessness in the human realm. Therefore, according to the theory of evolution there could not have been a Fall from perfection into a state of sin and death and decay. So the theory of evolution completely invalidates the purpose for Jesus' atoning death on the cross. In other words, if there was no Fall from perfection into sin and death and decay (according to the theory of evolution), then Jesus did not have to be born on earth and die on the cross. Redemption, forgiveness of sins, and so on are totally invalidated by the theory of evolution, and this makes the modern evolutionary theory completely incompatible with Christian beliefs.

Now, someone might argue that when the first human animal evolved, God gave it a soul and therefore it started off in a state of sinlessness. This would seem to allow for a Fall into sin. However, this argument betrays a serious lack of understanding of the magnitude of the Fall, because all of Creation was perfect until the Fall, not just humans:

"The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God. We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time." (Romans 8:19-22)
Here is what The Bible Knowledge Commentary (Walvoord and Zuck, Dallas Theological Seminary, p.472) has to say about the above passage:

"When God's program of salvation for people is completed and the children of God together experience their glorious freedom from sin, Satan, and physical decay, then the Creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay. God had cursed the physical Creation as a part of His judgment on people for sin because of their position and authority over the Creation as God's representatives (Gen. 1:26-30; 2:8, 15). Similarly, since God's program of salvation for people is one of a new Creation (2 Cor. 5:17; Gal. 6:15), the physical world also will be re-created (Rev. 21:5)."
So God says that all of Creation (including plants and animals) was perfect until it was judged and cursed because of the Fall. For this reason, we can't just simply say that the first human to evolve was given a perfect soul. This view does not make the theory of evolution compatible with Scripture.

As we have seen, man's theory of evolution totally invalidates the very reason for Christ's atoning sacrifice for our sins, and this makes the theory of evolution completely incompatible with Christian beliefs.

Throughout Scripture, God Is Described as the Creator and Sustainer of All Things

From Genesis to Revelation, the Bible describes God as the Creator, and there is not even a hint of the theory of evolution described anywhere in the Bible. Instead, it is God's acts of Special Creation which are described all throughout the Old and the New Testaments:

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." (Genesis 1:1)

"It was you who opened up springs and streams; you dried up the ever flowing rivers. The day is yours, and yours also the night; you established the sun and moon. It was you who set all the boundaries of the earth; you made both summer and winter." (Psalms 74:15-17)

"But God made the earth by his power; he founded the world by his wisdom and stretched out the heavens by his understanding." (Jeremiah 10:12)

"This is the word of the LORD concerning Israel. The LORD, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the spirit of man within him" (Zechariah 12:1)

"Through him [Jesus] all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made." (John 1:3)

"He [Jesus] was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him." (John 1:10)

"The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands." (Acts 17:24)

"yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live." (1 Corinthians 8:6)

"In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands." (Hebrews 1:10)

"You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being." (Revelation 4:11)

Not only did God create everything in the universe (rather than allowing the universe to evolve on its own), He is continuously sustaining all things and keeping everything together and working properly according to the laws of nature which He devised:

"He waters the mountains from his upper chambers; the earth is satisfied by the fruit of his work. He makes grass grow for the cattle, and plants for man to cultivate-- bringing forth food from the earth" (Psalms 104:13-14)
"When he thunders, the waters in the heavens roar; he makes clouds rise from the ends of the earth. He sends lightning with the rain and brings out the wind from his storehouses." (Jeremiah 10:13)

"He who forms the mountains, creates the wind, and reveals his thoughts to man, he who turns dawn to darkness, and treads the high places of the earth-- the LORD God Almighty is his name." (Amos 4:13)

And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else. From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live." (Acts 17:25-26)

"He [Jesus] is before all things, and in him all things hold together." (Colossians 1:17)

"The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word." (Hebrews 1:3)

We can see that both the Old and New Testaments clearly state that not only did God create the heavens and the earth as well as all life on earth, He is continuously sustaining everything by His powerful Word. Nowhere does the Bible suggest that God has ever left the universe to evolve on its own or that humans evolved from other animals. To dispel any last doubts, God confirms this in His own words in the following passages (of course, the entire Bible is God's written Word, but sometimes it carries more weight with people when He speaks in the first person):

"[God is speaking] This is what the LORD says-- the Holy One of Israel, and its Maker: Concerning things to come, do you question me about my children, or give me orders about the work of my hands? It is I who made the earth and created mankind upon it. My own hands stretched out the heavens; I marshaled their starry hosts." (Isaiah 45:11-12)

"[God is speaking] This is what the LORD says: "Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool. ... Has not my hand made all these things, and so they came into being?" declares the LORD." (Isaiah 66:1-2)

"[Jesus is speaking about God] He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous." (Matthew 5:45)

God specifically says that He created all things and that He is continuously sustaining all things by His powerful Word. There is never any indication in the Bible that God has ever allowed the universe to evolve on its own. Instead, it is always God's acts of Special Creation which are described throughout the Old and New Testaments.

Adam and Eve
Not only is the Bible very specific about the six literal days of Creation, it is also very specific about the creation of the first humans, Adam and Eve. God says that He formed Adam from the dust of the ground and breathed life into him, and then Adam became a living being (the imagery here is of a potter creating something from clay, as we will see in a moment):

"the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being. Now the LORD God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed." (Genesis 2:7-8)

God did not "form" Adam through the process of evolution, He says that He formed Adam directly from the dust of the ground as a potter forms a vessel from clay. Notice that Adam was formed as a full-grown man (God speaks to him, and we see Adam naming the animals). However, Adam initially had no life in him until God breathed life into his nostrils. There is no way to misinterpret this as evolution, so either this is a lie (in the Bible!), or else man's theory of evolution is the lie. The theory of evolution and the account of Creation cannot both be true, and neither can they be combined into a single explanation as many Christians want to do.

To create Eve, God made Adam fall into a deep sleep and then He took a piece of Adam's body:

"So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs and closed up the place with flesh. Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man. The man said, "This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called 'woman,' for she was taken out of man." (Genesis 2:20-23)

Again, there is no way to misinterpret this as evolution, so either this is a lie (in the Bible!), or else man's theory of evolution is the lie. They cannot both be true.

In the New Testament, the apostle Paul confirmed the Biblical account of Adam and Eve under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit:

"For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman, but woman for man." (1 Corinthians 11:8-9)

"For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God." (1 Corinthians 11:12)

"So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"" (1 Corinthians 15:45)

These descriptions of Adam being formed from the dust of the ground as a full-grown man and Eve being made from a part of Adam's body as a full-grown woman are too specific to be misinterpreted as evolution.

The fact that God created Adam from the dust of the ground and formed him as a potter forms things from clay is confirmed in the Old Testament by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit:

"By the sweat of your brow you [Adam] will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return." (Genesis 3:19)

"This is the written account of Adam's line. When God created man, he made him in the likeness of God. He created them male and female and blessed them. And when they were created, he called them "man."" (Genesis 5:1-2)

"Woe to those who go to great depths to hide their plans from the LORD, who do their work in darkness and think, "Who sees us? Who will know?" You turn things upside down, as if the potter were thought to be like the clay! Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, "He did not make me"? Can the pot say of the potter, "He knows nothing"?" (Isaiah 29:15-16)

"Woe to him who quarrels with his Maker, to him who is but a potsherd among the potsherds on the ground. Does the clay say to the potter, 'What are you making?' Does your work say, 'He has no hands'?" (Isaiah 45:9)

"This is what the LORD says-- the Holy One of Israel, and its Maker: Concerning things to come, do you question me about my children, or give me orders about the work of my hands? It is I who made the earth and created mankind upon it." (Isaiah 45:11-12)

"Yet, O LORD, you are our Father. We are the clay, you are the potter; we are all the work of your hand." (Isaiah 64:8)

The New Testament also confirms (through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit) the Scriptural authenticity of Creation by describing Adam as the son of God (not as the son of some type of animal) and as a pattern of Jesus (who obviously did not evolve from any type of animal):

"the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God." (Luke 3:38)

"Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come." (Romans 5:14)

"But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?'" Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?" (Romans 9:20)

"So it is written: [this phrase confirms the Scriptural authority of what the apostle Paul is about to say] "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven." (1 Corinthians 15:45-47)

"For Adam was formed first, then Eve." (1 Timothy 2:13)

God tells us over and over throughout the Old and New Testaments that we are created beings, not evolved beings. God has not given us any hint anywhere in His written Word of anything resembling man's theory of evolution. There is no way to reconcile the theory of evolution with the Biblical account of Adam and Eve. Only one view can be right, which means that the other view is a lie. Can you see that we must choose between them? We must either take man's word or God's Word, we cannot have it both ways.

By the way, do you know where Eve got her name? Adam named her "Eve" because she was going to become the mother of all the living:

"Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the mother of all the living." (Genesis 3:20)

"From one man he [God] made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live." (Acts 17:26)

Therefore all humans come from Adam and Eve. Various groups of humans did not somehow evolve in different places and at different times, and God did not create other groups of humans anywhere else on earth.

In fact, Jesus Himself quoted from two different parts of the Creation account (Genesis 1:27 and 2:24) because He knew that it is the literal truth:

"They said, "Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce and send her away." "It was because your hearts were hard that Moses wrote you this law," Jesus replied. "But at the beginning of creation God 'made them male and female' [Genesis 1:27]. 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh' [Genesis 2:24]. So they are no longer two, but one."" (Mark 10:4-8)

Notice that Jesus said that Adam and Eve were made by God, and notice that Jesus quoted from the Creation account, giving it direct authority from God. In Jesus' own words we have a complete denial of man's theory of evolution, and certainly the testimony of Jesus should be enough proof for us!

Now let's consider Eve for a moment. Recall that Adam was walking and talking and naming the animals, and then God said that Adam needed a wife. So Adam was at a marriageable age, and God created Eve to be his wife (which means that Eve was at a marriageable age as well). Logically and scientifically, if Eve was a teenager or older when she met Adam then there must have been a time when she was a little girl, and a time when she was an infant, and a moment of conception. However, those logical and scientific assumptions would be wrong because God did something special with Eve (and also with Adam). Notice that at the moment when Eve was created, all of her bodily systems were functioning as if she had been alive for many years. For example, she was created with blood flowing in her arteries and veins as if she had been alive moments earlier, and so on. Therefore, Eve's grown-up body showed evidence of events which never actually happened (such as a moment of conception and a time of infancy). By its very nature, Special Creation defies science and logic, which means that we will never be able to scientifically or logically verify or prove the origins of something which has been Specially Created.

Consider all of the people who are alive on earth today. In every single case, every person had a moment of conception (when an egg and a sperm came together), without exception. It can be scientifically proven over and over, without fail, that if a person is alive on earth then he or she had a moment of conception. And yet this does not hold true for Adam and Eve because God did something special when He created them. So if God did something special when He created the universe then we cannot trust science to reach the proper conclusion about the conception of the universe (such as the Big Bang). Therefore, the question is whether or not God did something Special to create the universe? The answer is "yes," because God specifically tells us in Genesis that the universe was Specially Created. Now, if elsewhere in the Bible we see descriptions of the Big Bang and the evolution of the galaxies and so on, over eons of time, then we would have Scriptural reason for interpreting Genesis in more of a symbolic way. But throughout the entire Bible, all of the evidence is completely consistent with Special Creation, as we have seen in this article.

What it boils down to is that if we could go back and stand in front of Eve then we would be looking at a conception which never actually happened, no matter how much scientific evidence there is to show that Eve is alive right in front of us. In the same way, when we stand in front of the universe and peer as far back in time as we can, we're looking at a conception (such as the Big Bang) which never actually happened, no matter how much scientific evidence there is. Adam was Specially Created by God in a moment of time, and Eve was Specially Created by God in a moment of time, and the universe was Specially Created by God in six normal 24-hour days.

Conclusion
The Bible warns us over and over that we must be careful not to be taken captive by hollow and deceptive philosophies or godless myths, and it tells us to put our faith in God's power and not in men's "wisdom":

"so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power." (1 Corinthians 2:4-5)

"Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives' tales" (1 Timothy 4:7)

"For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths." (2 Timothy 4:3-4)

"See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ." (Colossians 2:8)

It is difficult to give up our cherished beliefs, especially when they always appeared to be backed up by sound scientific evidence, but as Christians we must make a choice. We cannot have it both ways. In the case of scientific theories such as the Big Bang, evolution, etc., either we are trusting in God and trusting what He wrote in the Bible, or else we are trusting in science and in the basic principles of this world (see Colossians 2:8, above). The question is, does your faith rest on men's wisdom or on God's power? (see 1 Corinthians 2:5, above).

The Bible tells us that as Christians we must live by faith, not by what we can see or touch:

"We live by faith, not by sight." (2 Corinthians 5:7)

"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. This is what the ancients were commended for. By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible." (Hebrews 11:1-3)

From Genesis to Revelation, God is described as the Creator, and throughout the Bible there are numerous references to His acts of Special Creation. In this article we have seen overwhelming Scriptural evidence that the entire Bible is completely consistent and is completely in opposition to the world's scientific theories of evolution. Nowhere is there even the slightest hint of man's theories of evolution in the Bible, yet many Christians prefer to ignore everything God has written about Creation.

Instead, they choose to put their faith in human scientists rather than placing their faith in God. But it is impossible to please God if we don't place our faith in Him (Hebrews 11:6).

If we call ourselves by the Name of Christ ("Christians"), then the Bible, not science, should be our final authority, right? Let's don't just say we trust God, let's trust God!
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  #225  
Old 12-04-2005, 10:32 AM
rushdoony rushdoony is offline
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Default Re: The Earth is NOT Moving!

December 2005 Bulletin


So, you didnít know that the whole 15 billion years of Big Bang Evolutionism is a factless "creation scenario" from a "holy book" of the Pharisee Religion?? You are not alone! But now, this long-hidden world-class deception is out of the closet and you can know what has happened, what the options are, and much more: (As your time permits, these will help: (HERE - HERE - HERE - HERE - HERE - HERE - HERE - HERE).


The big question is: How does one react personally when the magnitude of this truth sinks in?? Specifically, we must ask ourselves: What am I going to do when I learn that all the talk about keeping "science" separate from "religion" in schools is a lying trick that has kept the world from knowing that Evolutionism is the "creation scenario" of a Religion...just like Creationism is the "creation scenario" of another Religion?? Both teach the Origins of all that exists! So, where ever you live in the world, consider this: In spite of some very real problems in the USA, its Constitution still offers a sure way to expose the evolution deception top to bottom. (Again, as time permits, read these three links and you will understand what that way is: (HERE - HERE - HERE). If you donít live in the USA, your own laws will certainly prohibit the spending of taxpayerís money to support any specific religion. Thus, the same arguments apply.


So, when you realize youíve been deceived big time by the real source behind the evolution lie, you might as well just laugh it off and start focusing on the solution! Though surveys in other countries give quite different results, polls in the USA still show that 40% of the population believes there has been no evolution at all! This is a remarkable statistic since--knowingly or unknowingly--generations of increasingly sophisticated indoctrination in the schools and the media has produced a world wide acceptance of the Pharisee Religionsí Evolutionary "creation model" as textbook science. Moreover, in the same polls, another 30% want to at least challenge the Evolution Monopoly in the schools by including an Intelligent Design alternative (HERE). So, if you donít like being lied to, ignore the expected ridicule and focus on challenging the Kabbala-based Pharisee Religionís masquerade in your schools and churches as "science". Use your computers: Spread the fixedearth.com web site around! Middle School, High School, College Students: Do you want to know the basis of the "knowledge" you are getting in virtually all of your subjects? Read this (HERE) and you will know. Then talk it up with your friends, your parents...your church (HERE - HERE), if you go. Make it a class project! Think of something....

***

China & Evolution: A Relevant Historical Sidebar. Darwinís Origin of Species was the reading material used in Maoís "each one teach one" attack on Chinaís 85% illiteracy in the early 1950ís. Similarly, Lenin and Stalin were "devout" evolutionists. All card-carrying Communist are atheists who must base their philosophy of life on evolutionism as opposed to creationism. Imagine the impact on China alone of exposing evolutionism as the long-hidden, contra-scientific "creation scenario" of a handful of rabbis of the Pharisee Religion! Though Fascist evolutionists may be atheists, it is not an ideological requirement as it is in Communism. Read this link: "Hitler, Lenin, Stalin, Mao et al: The Role Of Evolution In Their Lives" (HERE). Also, this link on Atheism will be ring a bell for many: (HERE).
http://www.fixedearth.com/
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ď...I realized I had to gain more knowledge to protect against evil and to protect myself from not becoming evil myself. This is our major goal in life...\" Terry Lee
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  #226  
Old 12-05-2005, 04:27 PM
John_1335 John_1335 is offline
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Posts: 9
Default Re: The Earth is NOT Moving!

Greetings!

Grace unto you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

I just want to share the love of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ with you.

If you are seeking after the Truth, if you are hungry for a relationship with God, all it takes is faith from the heart and a confession with your mouth.

Romans 10:8-13

--

If you're into conspiracy theories, or if you're like me and want to know the Truth compared to the lies you've been told, and you're having difficulty believing God's Word, or believing that the earth is truly standing still, perhaps you would be interested in checking out the following articles to open you up to the reality that mankind has lied to you:

http://www.aulis.com/jackstudies_index1.html

"Science" is no more "science" but has become deception. What we're taught in public schools concerning the origin of life, the universe, world history, evolution, the big bang, men on the moon, etc. needs to be seriously looked into. There are evil forces in the world that DO NOT want YOU to KNOW THE TRUTH. The Truth shall set you free. Jesus is the Truth. Read God's Word..

Good starting places are:

Gospel of John
Romans
Ephesians
1 John

God bless you. If you have questions or need prayer, just ask. :-D
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  #227  
Old 12-05-2005, 05:41 PM
LaDominio LaDominio is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 793
Default Re: The Earth is NOT Moving!

Quote:
John_1335 wrote:
Greetings!

Grace unto you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

I just want to share the love of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ with you.

If you are seeking after the Truth, if you are hungry for a relationship with God, all it takes is faith from the heart and a confession with your mouth.

Romans 10:8-13

--

If you're into conspiracy theories, or if you're like me and want to know the Truth compared to the lies you've been told, and you're having difficulty believing God's Word, or believing that the earth is truly standing still, perhaps you would be interested in checking out the following articles to open you up to the reality that mankind has lied to you:

http://www.aulis.com/jackstudies_index1.html

"Science" is no more "science" but has become deception. What we're taught in public schools concerning the origin of life, the universe, world history, evolution, the big bang, men on the moon, etc. needs to be seriously looked into. There are evil forces in the world that DO NOT want YOU to KNOW THE TRUTH. The Truth shall set you free. Jesus is the Truth. Read God's Word..

Good starting places are:

Gospel of John
Romans
Ephesians
1 John

God bless you. If you have questions or need prayer, just ask. :-D
Man... Everybodys just saying things that we already know. :-?
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  #228  
Old 12-05-2005, 09:48 PM
John_1335 John_1335 is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 9
Default Re: The Earth is NOT Moving!

I'm sorry, I am fairly new here, and I'm not sure what you all know or don't know.

I just want to cover the most important things first.
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  #229  
Old 12-06-2005, 02:54 AM
LaDominio LaDominio is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 793
Default Re: The Earth is NOT Moving!

Quote:
John_1335 wrote:
I'm sorry, I am fairly new here, and I'm not sure what you all know or don't know.

I just want to cover the most important things first.
Its cool ;-)

Welcome.
__________________
Demographics? Metaphysics? Scientific? Chemistry? Ecology? Psychology? Sociology? Entropy?
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  #230  
Old 12-06-2005, 02:54 AM
Saturnino Saturnino is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 624
Default Re: The Earth is NOT Moving!

John,

Stick around...many of the members here are Christians or at least serious seekers of truth.

In the forum usually we should not start openly religious threads, since it is a conspiracy forum. Some Muslims did that for a long time and it was a pain in the neck...they almost ruined the forum.

However, you will have plenty of opportunities to explain the Christian faith, which is bashed every 5 minutes here and the discussion of religion inside the conspiracy perspective is encouraged.

I guess you would like this site:
www.cuttingedge.org
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