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Old 10-09-2006, 07:34 AM
truebeliever truebeliever is offline
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Default Why The Wet Rag Christian Churches Have Failed Us So Miserably: Have They Woken Up?


I think people have been conned over Christ as some sort of wussy new age flake...lovey dovey, kiss, kiss, i am so precious, floppy doll.

Time and again Christ kicks ass. Christ says things like..."if any man lay a finger on the hair of these little ones, it would be better that a millstone be tied around his neck and thrown in the ocean"...does that sound like a kissy, kissy, love no matter what evil scum do in this world? To forgive...constantly? Christ CONTINUALLY says..."woe unto thee who..." put in the evil action.

See what the Orthodox Christian Churches have to say about Christ. Christ as new age flake? No...Christ as iron rod setting the record straight and yet adding that one find forgiveness for people that..."know not what they do". When you are evil you are gotton rid of. Simple. If you cant repent when you commit major evil...when you do not have the capacity for reflection...then i will pull the trigger. Quite literally and feel quite right calling myself a "Christian". The Catholic Church and and it's various offshoots are responsible for portraying Christ as a wet rag in the face of evil.

Their is too much NEW and not enough OLD in the Testament teaching. One balances the other.

All one has to do is read the Gospels and draw the obvious conclusions. Because the Churches have regressed into a form of narcisistic contemplation like "meditation", we see OTHER institutions taking over the role it was obviously meant to have...namely the secret societies like Masonry and various socialist/communist movements. As Hitler said...Communism is simply Christianity. Just read "Acts" where followers of the Apostles give up their possessions to "common property" and live together. It's seeded throught the post Gospel New Testament.

Because people are HUNGRY for God they go EVERYWHERE but the Churches who give you ZERO tools to do the job! Their is NO Bible quote saying you cannot use Astrology to understand yourself and your place in the Universe. Where in the Bible does it say to avoid dreamwork? If Christ did'nt say it...i aint listening.

Till the Christian Faiths commence use of astrology, dreamwork, kinesiology and ALL the so called "alternative" remedy's for making life better, we will see themselves, making themselves, SOOO irrelevant they will cease to exist. Instead of Catholic pedophiles burning home remedy makers at the stake for witch craft we could have see a continuation of the Churches role of central point of salvation for the mind/body/spirit of man/woman.

But! They ARE catching on. At least here in Oz. The Churches are whining that they have become "too secular" and have lost the fight in the "values" stakes. Really? Well fancy that! So now the heads of the various faiths are screaming at the local outlet for the economic rationalist mad men who want us as simple "cogs in the machine". Now they have decided to strike and none to soon. Hopefully we will see a mass migration of the faithful BACK to the pulpit when we see a reinvigorated Church addressing the IMMEDIATE psycho/social/physical/spiritual needs of the common people and not sitting back like pathetic left leaning tamborine playing hippy's throwing flowers instead of the fire and brimstone needed to set straight the wrongs of this world.

I feel much better now.

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Old 10-09-2006, 09:05 AM
truebeliever truebeliever is offline
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Default Labour (Democrat) Federal Foreign Affairs (State Department) Opposition Spokesman Speaks Out On God

So, the limp wristed Left has finally worked out that keeping the worst of Commie Doctrine hanging about like a bad smell is not good for votes.

At last...the Christian Socialists have decided to admit that meantioning "God" and "values" might be a vote getter.

Also...getting out in the street and commiting the word "secularism" to the garbage bin has finally caught hold in the party of "useful idiots".

Keven Rudd speaks out like a homo in a straight mine workers bar that he is indeed a "bent" Christian. I sorta like the guy but like all pollies he is constrained by party politics. He's been a Christian for a long time...first I heard of it unless he thinks telepathic powers are common place. Thanks for telling us Kev.



Unlike the satanist Bush...Kevvy is ACTUALLY a Christian and it seems all the work by grass roots activists is paying off.

Enjoy this "Quicktime" audio I recorded off the telly a week ago, using my phone so I hope the quality is alright.

This is WELL WORTH listening to as Christians get off their fat lazy backsides and get out there on the values battlefield.

Audio Interview With Kevin Rudd.

Quote:
Rudd's unholy row
When Labor's foreign affairs spokesman begins a debate on church and state relations, he can expect to provoke a sharp response, says religious affairs writer Jill Rowbotham


October 07, 2006
KEVIN Rudd has been somewhat perplexed about the splash his essay Faith in Politics, just published in The Monthly, has been making in the national press.

It's easy to see why. As he tells Inquirer: "I have been banging on about this stuff for two years, I have delivered multiple speeches, most of which have been fairly widely distributed."

It is true that anyone who has followed the Labor foreign affairs spokesman's record on this topic knows that, given half a chance, he will do the following things: talk about his hero, Dietrich Bonhoeffer; advance his theory on the five kinds of Christian politicians and how they plead for votes; and stick the boot into the Howard Government.

In The Monthly article he did all three, starting with a celebration of the centenary of the German theologian's birth, recapping his courageous resistance to the Nazis and his execution by them; then moving on to attack politicians who cynically use their faith to garner support, and finally to argue for the importance of social justice.

For Rudd, it was a continuation of a campaign begun after the previous federal election, when he was among those horrified by the success of Family First and what he saw as the rise of the Christian Right. Since then he has been further disquieted by what he regards as the infiltration of the NSW Liberal Party by right-wing Christian extremists and the unclear relationship between the conservative side of politics and the Exclusive Brethren.

So he has been pushing one simple theme, which is at the heart of his new essay: Christians have more options than voting conservative. During the week, despite complex dissection of his essay across the media , he returned consistently to that message.

"I am concerned about the political manipulation of evangelical and Pentecostal Christians by the Liberals, the Nationals and Family First," he says.

His essay argued for the importance of the social gospel, which tries to create and maintain a just society, as well as the spiritual gospel, with its emphasis on personal salvation, which among some Christians includes an adherence to a strict code of conservative morality.

Its attack on John Howard's politics took in issues including the industrial relations changes last year, world poverty, asylum-seekers and global warming.

Many others have bought into the debate over church and state relations and someone such as Rudd can't dish up opinions without provoking response. But for some there were glaring omissions and faulty premises. One that raised eyebrows was his view on "so-called Christian morals".

"I see very little evidence that this preoccupation with sexual morality is consistent with the spirit and content of the gospels," Rudd wrote. "For example, there is no evidence of Jesus of Nazareth expressly preaching against homosexuality. In contrast, there is considerable evidence of the Nazarene preaching against poverty and the indifference of the rich."

His article did not mention abortion, euthanasia or stem cell research - what he calls the "life issues" - but he describes himself as generally conservative in relation to them, despite voting in favour of making the abortifacient RU486 available in Australia.

Catholic Archbishop of Canberra and Goulburn Mark Coleridge finds fault with the way Rudd distinguished the private and public worlds.

"I think it's a mistake to relegate issues like abortion and euthanasia as strictly for private consideration because they are, in fact, issues that have huge implications at the social level and in that sense they are public issues," Coleridge says. "Mistaken and possibly pernicious.

"Kevin Rudd talks about the need to speak up for and defend the weak and voiceless. I would ask, who is weaker or more voiceless than the unborn child or the old frail person who is close to death?

"And you just cannot talk about issues of distributive justice in isolation because issues like abortion are part of the same garment of social concern."

Rudd tells Inquirer: "I'm seeking to be a clear voice of progressive Christianity from the social justice tradition and a passionate critic of right-wing Christian extremism, which is a danger to our democracy. The church historically has spoken out on the life issues. I'm concerned about a dulling of the clarion call on the social justice issues in the last decade or so."

Australian Christian Lobby managing director Jim Wallace also takes issue with Rudd on the tension between the spiritual and social gospels, while noting his basic agreement with the essay.

"I believe the core issues are, for example, not the environment, but really the core issue is the spiritual gospel because then people are changed and hopefully the social gospel will follow," Wallace says.

Coleridge has a bone to pick with Rudd and others who focus the discussion on individual Christians in public life. "From the Catholic point of view it's also about the church as a community engaging in the public domain, so I think that aspect has been overlooked," he says.

But he dismisses suggestions Rudd may be wandering dangerously close to the liberation theology of which John Paul II so vehemently disapproved.

"It can sound like liberation theology but the roots of the social gospel go back far longer than that," Coleridge says. He is more concerned with Rudd's proposition in the essay that "Christianity must always take the side of the marginalised, the vulnerable and oppressed".

"I would question the sense of antagonism he implies when he talks about the need for Christians to take sides with the marginalised," Coleridge says. "It can imply a kind of class warfare Christianity can never subscribe to."

The Anglican Bishop to the Australian Defence Force, Tom Frame, also finds this difficult, arguing the church is not "intended to be a means by which the voiceless and powerless are heard and find strength".

"The church is called to proclaim the kingdom of God in which all relationships are transformed by the example of Christ," Frame says. "This will have implications for those who are the victims of avarice and greed, exploitation and oppression. But they are by-products rather than objectives of fidelity to Christ."

Frame also accuses Rudd of embodying what he set out to chastise: the alignment of religious convictions with political ideology. "I found it very difficult to discern when Mr Rudd was exercising his religious convictions and when he was simply damning his political opponents," Frame says. "He seemed to be implying that any Christian with a conscience could not possibly vote for Mr Howard and the Coalition because they were plainly, in his view, guilty of unconscionable behaviour."

Wallace observes, in forgiving spirit: "Christian politicians on the Right and Left do have a blind spot in relation to the other side of politics."

Baptist pastor and World Vision chief executive Tim Costello, a well known adherent to the social justice gospel, praises Rudd's use of the example of Bonhoeffer, which he says confronts the Christian with the question: "Can I just go on living my faith and not get involved in politics?" What is crucial, Costello says, is "that question of faith having to take form in engagement".

He says Rudd is right to try to correct any impression that the conservative parties are the natural home of Christian voters. "That the Labor Party, if anything, has become identified as the secular party is almost a misunderstanding," he says.
Source

Kevin Rudds Webpage

Quote:
Canberra Archbishop praises Rudd's Christian essay

The Archbishop of Canberra and Goulburn, Mark Coleridge, who has spoken out on the role of Christianity in politics, has praised a new essay by Shadow Foreign Minister Kevin Rudd which called upon the churches to take a more active role in politics.



In an essay published in the October issue of The Monthly magazine, Mr Rudd invites churches to "fearlessly speak truth to the state", and especially in calling the Howard Government to account.

"I think it's a sign the Labor Party has realised the radical separation between religion and politics, church and state is unworkable and unrealistic," Archbishop Coleridge (pictured) said, according to The Australian.

"The church has to be deeply engaged in the public domain but not in a partisan way."

Raised as a Catholic but now describing himself as "a Christian of no fixed denominational abode", Mr Rudd advocates an "alternative vision for Australia's future" shaped by Christian values, according to a Sydney Morning Herald report.

"For too long in this country," he told the Herald yesterday, "there's been an assumption that if you have private faith your natural destination is one of the conservative parties."

In his essay, Mr Rudd expresses his admiration for Dietrich Bonhoeffer, a German Lutheran pastor and theologian who resisted Hitler and who was hanged by the SS three weeks before the end of the war for complicity in the plot to assassinate Hitler.

Mr Rudd agrees with Bonhoeffer's precept that "obedience to God's will may be a religious experience but it is not an ethical one until it issues in actions that can be socially valued".

As Mr Rudd put it yesterday: "It's an uncompromising message ... that Christian ethics, unless applied to the concrete social challenges of the day, is meaningless.

"It's not OK to go to church on Sunday and be unconcerned about social justice on Monday."

Mr Rudd, who said he did not go to church yesterday but went twice the previous Sunday - "I had a double credit from last Sunday" - writes in his essay how this principle should be applied to Australian politics.

"I argue that a core, continuing principle shaping this engagement should be that Christianity, consistent with Bonhoeffer's critique in the '30s, must always take the side of the marginalised, the vulnerable and the oppressed."
Source
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Old 10-09-2006, 10:41 AM
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Default Re: Labour (Democrat) Federal Foreign Affairs (State Department) Opposition Spokesman Speaks Out On God

The strangest and truly weird poster on this forum is ignt. What is this thing?
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Old 10-09-2006, 11:04 AM
truebeliever truebeliever is offline
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Default Re: Labour (Democrat) Federal Foreign Affairs (State Department) Opposition Spokesman Speaks Out On

I think it's FRA_NOTHING. Meth addict abd freak Bible quoter par excellance.
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Old 10-09-2006, 01:25 PM
Bouncer Bouncer is offline
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Default Re: Labour (Democrat) Federal Foreign Affairs (State Department) Opposition Spokesman Speaks Out On

I consider that when Jesus told us to "Love our neighbors . . ." he meant that we are to cultivate a rational and active interest in the wellness and safety of those within our power to help.

This attitude will cut through any attempt to manipulate like a hot knife through butter.

To the "Christian" media: DON'Tuse your conversion tactics and mind-control triggers on me DON'T
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Old 10-09-2006, 04:39 PM
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Default Re: Labour (Democrat) Federal Foreign Affairs (State Department) Opposition Spokesman Speaks Out On

Ignt knows a few esoteric things and the photos are sometimes spooky. Oh well, who knows, but still at least different!!!
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Old 10-10-2006, 04:13 PM
redrat11 redrat11 is offline
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Default Re: Why The Wet Rag Christian Churches Have Failed Us So Miserably: Have They Woken Up?

Quote:
truebeliever wrote:




Their is too much NEW and not enough OLD in the Testament teaching. One balances the other.



Because people are HUNGRY for God they go EVERYWHERE but the Churches who give you ZERO tools to do the job! Their is NO Bible quote saying you cannot use Astrology to understand yourself and your place in the Universe.

Till the Christian Faiths commence use of astrology, dreamwork, kinesiology and ALL the so called "alternative" remedy's for making life better, we will see themselves, making themselves, SOOO irrelevant they will cease to exist. Instead of Catholic pedophiles burning home remedy makers at the stake for witch craft we could have see a continuation of the Churches role of central point of salvation for the mind/body/spirit of man/woman.
WTHeck!


Well your correct that the "Christian Church" has evolved into a mass of LIBERAL WEENIES, however, I'm EXTREMELY dissapointed in your words above saying that Astrology, and other NEW AGE QUACKERY should be allowed in CHRISTIAN THEOLOGY. It most certainly is forbidden in the Holy Word of God, The BIBLE. The Old Testament is chock full of dire consequences for CHRISTIANS to avoid Satanic Aversions such as those you mentioned above. I don't know what those so called "intellectuals" you mention all the time are teaching you, but my understanding and interpretation of the Bible includes the Old Testament as well as the New Testament, Just because Jesus did'nt say anything about avoiding Satanic Aversions such as Astrology, does'nt mean they're acceptable to GOD. The Old Testament applies to modern Christianity today in many ways, Do you actaully think that all the WARNINGS GOD gave his people in the Old Testament concerning Paganism and Satanic Occultic practices such as Astrology, Divination, Numerolgy, Withcraft , are now null and void. If you do my friend, I wish you well in your "Christian Path," as for me, The Old Testament, as well as the New Testament are my GUIDE to understanding my CREATOR and my SAVIOR.

Good Luck in your "Christian Path." :-)
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Old 10-10-2006, 07:05 PM
redrat11 redrat11 is offline
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Default Re: Why The Wet Rag Christian Churches Have Failed Us So Miserably: Have They Woken Up?

Witchcraft.....



http://bible.com/bibleanswers_result.php?id=244

Divination...

http://bibleresources.bible.com/keywordsearchresults.php?keyword=divination&multip lemethod=all&version1=9&numpageresults=25&sortorde r=bookorder
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Old 10-10-2006, 07:30 PM
truebeliever truebeliever is offline
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Default Re: Why The Wet Rag Christian Churches Have Failed Us So Miserably: Have They Woken Up?

Could you give me some direct Bible quotes on these matters? Namely warnings regarding Astrology, dream work etc...

Ta.:-)

I think you'l find their are many "roundabout" warnings regarding using the "occult" for personal power while ignoring Faith in God but as for direct warnings I have found none.

In the end if I find Astrology, dreamwork, kinesiology etc...IMMENSELY useful in getting myself aligned correctly with the "Source". Christian Faith and a humble attitude towards the Divine is required also as the temptation of power will kick in immediately one messes with a direct line to God.

The walls of the Church were put up for a reason I believe. It formed a foundation and protection from powerful forces. However...like any bird we must leave the nest sooner or later and if the Churches want people back their they must address the elephant in the living room.:-)
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Old 10-10-2006, 07:33 PM
truebeliever truebeliever is offline
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Default Re: Why The Wet Rag Christian Churches Have Failed Us So Miserably: Have They Woken Up?

Just regarding posting "long links" which stretch the page and make it hard to read.

If you click on the little button above the "Bold" button (looks like a chain) you can put your link into the box and even give it a name without displaying the actual full link.:-)
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