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  #21  
Old 03-27-2005, 04:29 AM
Draken Draken is offline
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Default Re: If Communism is the plan, why was it opposed by the US during the cold war?


First of all, I apologize for being totally off-topic. But these things seem to crop up all over the place and they need to be addressed. I know a lot of people on this forum don't want to discuss religious matters, especially when a lot of the time someone is trying to force their conviction onto them.
But I think that an intrinsic part of fighting and understanding the NWO is the understanding in mind and heart religion, faith, spirituality on the one hand, and evil on the other hand.

After all, there is a reason these subjects come up every once in a while when discussing conspiracy.

So, back to the discussion!

Quote:
Ahmad wrote:

The problem that we most fail to see is that there is a different species that is conspiring against us. Satan wants to enslave the human being, what do you think he would do if this human being refused to cooperate? "if you can't enslave him, kill him" that's Satan's motto.

Another thing that surprises me is that the conspiracy theory focus on the NWO, while this NWO is no different than the nation states.

Does anybody in the nation states have any choice but to follow the rulers' religion? where is the community rule? voting for a representative and then letting him choose for us is a satanic idea that we all bought.

Submission is the only religion in the world that encourages self-rule, meaning that the people in charge cannot make any decision except after due consultation with the people who chose them.

And the prophecy in the scriptures says that this religion (the only legitimate one) is going to dominate the whole world, God willing very soon.

[9:33] He is the One who sent His messenger with the guidance and the religion of truth, and will make it dominate all religions, in spite of the idol worshipers.

I basically agree.
I have a few buts though. ;-)

You seem to suggest that the nation states are the same as the NWO. You seem to judge nation states based on the way they look today, as opposed to the way they looked and were organized when they worked very well as a system to organize society. Like I said elsewhere; (a long time ago now, it seems) that we should not fall in the trap of judging religion by today's standards, likewise we should not judge the concept of nation states by today's standards. After all, give me ONE example of a nation state which enjoys true, genuine sovereignity.

In the bigger scope one could of course argue that nation states came into existence as a manifastation of a spiritual flaw, due to the inevitable degeneration of creation, from The Golden Age down to the present Iron Age or Kali Yuga.

I totally agree with you in dismissing the idea of voting for a representative. I've posted several articles and written myself on this topic.

I have to say that your idea of Submission being the only legitimate religion, and it's future domination of the world sounds to me worryingly close to a New World Religion. (I know you don't mean it that way but it sounds like it!;-)) UNLESS, you mean that there is a transcendental unity between different religions and that "dominance" then would be a "dominance" (I would rather use "unity") IN SPIRIT and in ATTITUDE and NOT in a worldly, temporal sense, i.e. NOT a dominance of an exoteric nature.

"The ways to God are as many as the breaths of human beings."

Meaning the different religions are the different manifestations of the Ways to God, as given to Man by God according to the differences in temperament, mentality, geography and spiritual faculty of all peoples of the world. On an esoteric level <a href="http://www.integralscience.org/unity.html">they all say the same</a>; their goal is the same - even though on the surface; on an EXOTERIC level, they seem to say different things. This is because they have all manifested from the same source: God.

To clarify my point let me quote from an interview with <a href="http://www.frithjof-schuon.com/interview.htm">Frithjof Schuon</a>:

Quote:
Question : You have written more than twenty books on religion and spirituality. Your first book has the title The Transcendent Unity of Religions. May I ask you how one should understand this unity?

Frithjof Schuon: Our starting point is the acknowledgment of the fact that there are diverse religions which exclude each other. This could mean that one religion is right and that all the others are false; it could mean also that all are false. In reality, it means that all are right, not in their dogmatic exclusivism, but in their unanimous inner signification, which coincides with pure metaphysics, or in other terms, with the philosophia perennis.

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  #22  
Old 03-27-2005, 05:13 AM
Ahmad Ahmad is offline
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Default Re: If Communism is the plan, why was it opposed by the US during the cold war?

Peace again,

I am still against the idea of "nation states", it's a flawed idea from the vrey beginning, has it ever been successful?

You bring millions under the command of one person whom they don't even know, these millions have nothing in common to begin with, since color, race, and even langauge are not real ties, the only real bond between people is belief.

I support a village-community type of society, where people know each other, united on a common belief under leadrship they choose. That doesn't mean that we divide the world into disputing factions, i believe that peace is still possible but only when people with "common belief" get together.

At some point in history, someone came up with the idea of drawing lines on a map to divide the people, what was his criteria? maybe natural resources, ethnic background or whatever, but i am sure it was not belief.

Now many communities around the world are trying desperately to gain its freedom, they didn't choose to be ruled by their current leaders.

The one religion i am talking about is exactly that "a one religion" it's not a mixture of all religions and it's not a vague new age stuff, it's a simple idea of one god alone.

The current religions worship God+ an idol. This is a satanic dogma, the Christians worship Jesus or God+ Jesus/saints, the muslims worship God+ Muhammad/Ali/saints, the sufis and Hindus transgress more into equating the creatures with their Creator.

Do you think God is pleased with that? the whole idea of religion is one god, now Satan wants to be a partner with God in kingship, do you think God accepts that?

The domination of this one religion though is not in the sense of "compulsion", everybody is free to have his own faith, however one religion will rapidly spread around the world and gradually all the "fake" religions will fade out, not by force, but by the spirit of freedom, God willing.


[2:256] There shall be no compulsion in religion: the right way is now distinct from the wrong way. Anyone who denounces the devil and believes in GOD has grasped the strongest bond; one that never breaks. GOD is Hearer, Omniscient.
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  #23  
Old 03-27-2005, 08:21 AM
Draken Draken is offline
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Default Sophia Perennis - United Submitters Nation

Ok Ahmad.

Time for a showdown.

I usually agree with your views in general. You're obviously well read and have thought things through and hence argue your views very competently and convincingly.

But you very rarely comment on concepts or ideas of other people, other than in passing or in relation to Submission.

For instance, on the <a href="http://www.geocities.com/integral_tradition/">INTEGRAL TRADITION</a> site there is plenty of material concerning different forms of societies and their different historical, mythical and spiritual aspects. Have you read anything on that site?
I'm asking because if you have then you would understand why I say the things I say about national states. I don't say that the concept of national states is a good one THE WAY IT LOOKS TODAY. But in fact the reason national states came into being in the first place was due to a degeneration in spirit among the sacred rulers of the day.
Fact is that a traditional society actually WOULD be brought together not by a forceful tyrant but by a spirituality shared among the people of that society. If you look at ancient India for example, the <a href="http://www.geocities.com/integral_tradition/castes.html">caste system</a> provided a sacred hierarchy that manifested from Above. Nobody actually enforced the doctrine of the castes and forced it on the people; that would've been totally impossible with many millions of people over a vast geographical area. It was a society of a heterogeneous character. And yet, the doctrine of the castes permeated all of India. How was that possible? I think the answer is there was a unity IN SPIRIT. The problem of "wrong people in the wrong places" that we experience has been developing to the point of modern man not even remembering a time when it was not so. This is due to the concept of the <a href="http://www.geocities.com/integral_tradition/regress.html">regression of the castes</a> that for example Evola talks about. If you've read the above links you would've found a very adequate explanation of the issues we are discussing.
But you don't seem to be interested in those views since I don't notice any sign that you've read them.

I would really be interested in your opinions especially on the material from the <a href="http://www.geocities.com/integral_tradition/">INTEGRAL TRADITION</a> website. It contains a good collection of articles about a number of issues and it's a good place to start studying the World of Tradition and its different aspects and doctrines.

BTW, I check you USN site every once in a while because I want to understand what you stand for and what you're convictions are. I hope you do the same.

As always,

Truth, Beauty, Love
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  #24  
Old 03-27-2005, 09:22 AM
Ahmad Ahmad is offline
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Default Re: Sophia Perennis - United Submitters Nation

Peace Draken,

"But you very rarely comment on concepts or ideas of other people, other than in passing or in relation to Submission."


If you were in my position you would understand why. The scripture (Quran) freed me from being stuck in the details, i believe that life is more simple than we want it to be!

For example, the "muslims" have developed a large collection of rules governing every aspect of their lives, the Japanese surround themselves also with rules everywhere in your face. Who wants to control every movement of the human being?

Anyway, sometimes i follow the links, but i can't read all the material though. Concerning the issue of the casts, i think that we should leave God to determine the classes of people according to His plan, any human-imposed effort to categorize people based on anything but belief is deemed to fail.

For example if we designate some people to be religious, we are actually telling the rest to leave religion to this minority!, i mean everybody should be religious, everybody should work, everybody should rule, when the responsibility is returned to the individual, God will take it from there and distributes the specific roles on th e people according to their special talents.

For example Jesus was a teacher, he was also a carpenter, the jewish priests on the other hand were professional religionsist who get paid for teaching!

Everybody must be spiritual, productive, self/family/community governing, warrior, each acording to his ability.

And most of all the rich in Submission help the poor (the slaves who don't have the tools of production) to get their freedom through charity.

But dividing the people into sects, classes, castes is the work of Satan i believe.

So, if you have been to my website, do you believe the message or not?
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  #25  
Old 03-27-2005, 11:56 AM
Draken Draken is offline
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Default Re: Sophia Perennis - United Submitters Nation

Quote:
Concerning the issue of the casts, i think that we should leave God to determine the classes of people according to His plan, any human-imposed effort to categorize people based on anything but belief is deemed to fail.
Well, this is exactly what I mean. God DID determine the classes of people according to His plan, that plan was/is the Doctrine of the Castes! In our time though even this sacred hierarchy went through a period of decadence and that's why we see most people today - even learned people of India - being unable to comprehend in their hearts the concept of the caste system.

But in general, as always;-), I agree with your observations.

Regarding the message on your website I believe - in general!:-D - what is written there. The "Miracle of 19" I haven't read yet, but in time I will read it. My kneejerk reaction to it (and I know kneejerk reactions are not always accurate!) is that it sounds a little too simple to verify the genuinness of a book by a little mathematics. It sound too much like "The Bible Code" by Drosnin, in which he claims a lot of fraudulent "prophesies" to be encoded in the Bible that he "decodes" via numerology and Kabbalistic practices. He claims that through the manipulation of "mathematical codes" he can "prove" his thesis to be right.
Now, I don't say that's what your "Miracle of 19" is, I just say that's what it sounds like.

Like I said before, I think it would be a shame to discard other knowledge as being "Satanic", like so much Sufi wisdom.(I remember a long time ago when this forum was new, we had a conversation where you said you met a Sufi that made you question your every conviction and belief. Isn't that a GOOD thing, questioning yourself?)

In general, you come across to me as a person who interprets scriptures too literally. Not always, but often. This makes you miss certain possibilities hidden within the scriptures of an esoteric, mystic, symbolic nature.

I tend to look for deeper meanings in the scriptures, AS WELL AS seeing the simple truth, like you say.

Let me finish by quoting a <a href="http://www.frithjof-schuon.com/interview.htm">Q&A with Frithjof Schuon</a>. Let me also point out that I don't find anything I've said elsewhere about spiritual/religious issues or people I've quoted, to be incompatible or contrary to what you've been saying concerning your faith and opinions in spiritual/religious issues.

BTW, I appreciate and understand the fact that you can't read everything. Neither can I. But certain things are more important than others. Most of the time I feel we are saying the same thing and actually agreeing with eachother, and then you dismiss things I say without having read the source of MY conviction, or interpreting an issue or detail literally, when I interpret it symbolically.

Anyhow, I respect your views and enjoy reading your stuff - keep it up

for Truth, Love, Beauty!


Quote:
I. Spirituality Frithjof Schuon

Question : You have written more than twenty books on religion and spirituality. Your first book has the title The Transcendent Unity of Religions. May I ask you how one should understand this unity?

Frithjof Schuon: Our starting point is the acknowledgment of the fact that there are diverse religions which exclude each other. This could mean that one religion is right and that all the others are false; it could mean also that all are false. In reality, it means that all are right, not in their dogmatic exclusivism, but in their unanimous inner signification, which coincides with pure metaphysics, or in other terms, with the philosophia perennis.

Q. : How can we know that this metaphysical meaning is the truth?

F.S.: The metaphysical perspective is based on intellectual intuition, which by its very nature is infallible because it is a vision by the pure intellect, whereas profane philosophy operates only with reason, hence with logical assumptions and conclusions.

Q. : This being so, what is the basis of religion?

F.S.: The religious, dogmatic or theological perspective is based on revelation; its main purpose is, not to explain the nature of things or the universal principles, but to save man from sin and damnation, and also, to establish a realistic social equilibrium.

Q. : If we have religion, which saves us, why do we also need metaphysics?

F.S.: It is because metaphysics satisfies the needs of intellectually gifted men. Metaphysical truth concerns not only our thinking, but it penetrates also our whole being; therefore it is far above philosophy in the ordinary sense of the word.

Q. : You mentioned before intellectual intuition. Doesn't every man possess this faculty?

F.S.: Yes and no. In principle, every man is capable of intellection, for the simple reason that man is man; but in fact, intellectual intuition -- the "eye of the heart" -- is hidden under a sheet of ice, so to speak, because of the degeneration of the human species. So we may say that pure intellection is a gift and not a generally human faculty.

Q. : Is it possible to develop this higher intuition?

F.S.: There is no need to develop it. Man can be saved by faith alone. But it is evident that a very pious or contemplative person has more intuition than a worldly person.

IV. Message

Q. : What would be your message for the average man?

F.S.: Prayer. To be a human being means to be connected with God. Life has no meaning without this. Prayer and beauty, of course; for we live among forms and not in a cloud. Beauty of soul first, and then beauty of symbols around us.

Q. : You have spoken of metaphysics. May I ask you what the main content of this perennial wisdom is?

F.S.: Metaphysics means essentially: discernment between the Real and the apparent, or the illusory; in Vedantic terms: Atma and Maya ; the Divine and the cosmic. Metaphysics is concerned also with the roots of Maya in Atma,-- this is the Divine Personification, the creating and revealing God -- and then with the projection of Atma into Maya -- this means everything that is positive or good in the world. And this is essential: metaphysical knowledge requires intellectual, psychic and moral assimilation; discernment requires concentration, contemplation and union. Therefore metaphysical theory is not a philosophy in the modern sense of the word; it is essentially sacred. The sense of the sacred is an indispensable qualification for metaphysical realization, as it is for every spiritual way. For the Red Indian, as also for the Hindu, everything in nature is sacred; this, modern man has to learn, because it is a question of ecology in the broadest' sense of the word. What is needed first, is prayer; and then: back to Nature! One could object that it is too late; now, each person is responsible for what he or she does -- not for what others do -- because each one stands before God and can do what is requested for his immortal soul. The first step back to Nature is dignity; dignity of forms and of behavior; this creates the climate in which prayers feel at home, because dignity partakes of the immutable Truth.
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  #26  
Old 03-28-2005, 06:09 AM
Draken Draken is offline
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Default Charles Lindbergh Sr. Opposes the Banksters

In regards to Freedman's warning this link is in connection to WW1 and WW2.

<a href="http://judicial-inc.biz/pyschos/Lindbergh.htm">Who really kidnapped the Lindbergh baby ?</a> (and killed it?)

Especially the following statement:


Charles Lindbergh Sr. (1860-1924)
Congressman from Minnesota (1907-1917) who led the fight against enactment of the Federal Reserve Act in 1913. He ran for governor of Minnesota and lost. He was vehemently opposed by The New York Times and other papers.

Federal agents burned his books, including " Why Is Your Country At War?" and the papers and contents of his home office in Little Falls, Minnesota.

...

Lindbergh's <a href="http://www.truthofthematter.org/pdf/Your_Country_At_War.pdf">book</a> said -- " WW-1 was over in 1917 but European Jewry wanted Germany crushed , so Wilson did their bidding and put the USA into the war "

Woodrow Wilson ordered government agents to seize and destroy the printing plates for his book.
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  #27  
Old 03-28-2005, 06:21 AM
truebeliever truebeliever is offline
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Default Re: If Communism is the plan, why was it opposed by the US during the cold war?

Quote:
Ahmad wrote:


I support a village-community type of society, where people know each other, united on a common belief under leadrship they choose. That doesn't mean that we divide the world into disputing factions, i believe that peace is still possible but only when people with "common belief" get together.

[/font][/color][/b]
I agree Ahmed. And so does Alex Jones.

The power lies at the local level. Just ignore the Federal government as we here in Oz should ignore ours and go with State and local government. This is where the real power lies.

Local people making local decisions amongst people they know.

Pretty simple really.

Hey Ahmed...i posted this at EXACTLY 9:19pm.
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  #28  
Old 04-08-2005, 07:25 PM
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Ozziecynic Ozziecynic is offline
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Default Re: If Communism is the plan, why was it opposed by the US during the cold war?

:-? TB: To operate successfully on the local level you would need to cut ties with the whole mainstream Financial and economic system.Be realistic this just isnt going to happen!You still have to buy and sell work in the mainstream economy if you want to exist!.The government still wants its fair share of taxes.
How are you going to live in commune unless you completely cut ties with reality and live , like the ferals in Northern NSW e.g.The hippies already tried this in the 1960s it failed a few still nominally claim the hippie lifestyle in in places like Nimbin nsw or Tasmania many of them are also heavily dependent on social security.How does that fit with your Libertarian views of financial self sufficency.

Even the ones that do work are involved in Black Markets like the drug trade.The Drug trade in that area of Au is still well out of control!.The remainder that do work and trade legimately within the mainstream economic system are hardly immune from its values any more than the rest of society. Afterall hippies gave us many of our post modern values subjectivism and pseudo marxism in the first place many of these values have been completely intergrated into mainstream society and culture hence and present state of moral decadence. :-?

Your utopia looks like something of the 1960s counter culture they werent very christian though either!.
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  #29  
Old 04-08-2005, 07:44 PM
nohope187 nohope187 is offline
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Default Re: If Communism is the plan, why was it opposed by the US during the cold war?

Well, if society(anywhere in this fucked up world) is going to change for the better, it has to start somewhere, and what better place to start than in one's own local community? I think that's the point True was tryin' to make. :-P
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  #30  
Old 04-08-2005, 08:04 PM
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Default Re: If Communism is the plan, why was it opposed by the US during the cold war?

:roll: Nohope:
However my my point still remains you are not independent or immune from reality except maybe in cc or your head. Ho hum :roll: :roll:
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