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  #31  
Old 04-08-2005, 09:12 PM
nohope187 nohope187 is offline
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Default Re: If Communism is the plan, why was it opposed by the US during the cold war?


Well, theoretically it's supposed to start in the local community(looks good on paper), but you're right. The likelyhood of anything positive happening has two chances, slim and none leaning towards none, given the bleak current circumstances. That last post of mine on this thread was a weak attempt at being optimistic anyways. :-P

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  #32  
Old 04-08-2005, 09:34 PM
truebeliever truebeliever is offline
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Default Re: If Communism is the plan, why was it opposed by the US during the cold war?

Well you're right OC. Thats why I'm still here. Coz if i could be REALLY, TOTALLY, SELF SUFFICIENT you would'nt see me for dust.

I beleive also that they would attempt to destroy any successful community due to a conscious decision but also through the unconscious force of shadow projection whereby any successful community which isolated itself would immediately come under suspicion of a 'cult', or 'child abusers' etc...

Just the fact that you must still pay land tax say's it all. You never own anything.

However, it is possible to become incredibly self sufficient. All that matters is sufficient initial funding to buy the nescessary solar and wind power generators plus of course the land.

Also, at exactly what level do you want to subsist? Still want the net...it can be done.

Villagers in Asia have been living like this for thousands of years. It's simply a matter of dedication. I personally relish the oppurtunity.

I am lucky also in that i have MANY contacts in the building trade and willing people from various walks of life. All with something to bring.

The key is a critical mass so that a self sufficient chain reaction can begin and the community becomes internally viable.

Remember, society is just one big commune.

You would be amazed at the low cost, low technology equipment available that makes life easier.

The one chance i see in this lifestyle working is because people in general are ready for it. They've had enough of the grind. They've got the Plasma T.V and they're still miserable.

It can be alot of fun. People getting together and forming strong familial bonds. NO HIPPIES ALLOWED!
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  #33  
Old 04-08-2005, 10:20 PM
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Ozziecynic Ozziecynic is offline
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Default Re: If Communism is the plan, why was it opposed by the US during the cold war?

8-) First of all TB thanks for the good natured reply TB and glad we can leave our personal pride weaknesses behind us and move on all is forgiven!.I must add though iam not really on anyones side except truth and my own and Gods so future sins and weaknesses are possible but i will attempt to minimise them!.Now on with the discussion.

:-?
Quote:
am lucky also in that i have MANY contacts in the building trade and willing people from various walks of life. All with something to bring.
Really thats interesting to have such radical building trade mates i have worked as a landscaping apprentice for time here in NSW and all the guys would talk about is football, sex and cars,in fact of the reasons i wasnt popular was because i showed no interest in such things,perhaps they thought i was gay, so yeh does surprise me youve found such radical or deep thinking tradies in my experience they havent seemed to exist!.


Quote:
Remember, society is just one big commune.
Although i have to disagree here.I dont believe we live in society in any shape on an abstract national level and although there are local communities one only has status as a self employed producer not as an employee.And further we dont all socially fit into to our so called local communities do we especially, radical anti the system views like ours, atleast not where i live i keep my views close to my chest most of the time its like the walls have ears!.

Further i understand market liberals and libertarians believed in living in a centralised corporatised economic system not decentralised societies or community since they believe that all relationships only exist with the framework of the voluntary exchange of goods and services (hayek)and since these are monopolised increasingly by big business they set the ground rules.
:-? :-?
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  #34  
Old 04-09-2005, 10:29 AM
Draken Draken is offline
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Default Self-Sufficiency vs. Comfort

I think self-sufficiency can be achieved: it's got to do with how comfortable you want your life to be. How much comfort are you willing to sacrifice to be self-sufficient?

Quote:
OC wrote:
However my my point still remains you are not independent or immune from reality except maybe in cc or your head.
What do you mean by "reality"?

As far as I'm concerned, what is generally accepted as reality seems to me more and more like an illusion.

If you mean the reality of Statist coercion and threats to individual freedom like taxes and "welfare systems" and "democratic human rights" it really all depends on how much comfort you've let yourself be bribed with.

To me that's the catch. People have been bought off by the Elite with a comfortable life, clothes, luxuries of all kind we take for granted, events of all kinds, entertainment etc.

Most people can't imagine a life without TV. I've decided to give up TV half-a-year ago and I don't intend to EVER go back. This is an illustration on a miniscule scale of what it would take to become independent and self-sufficient. The State claims that you wouldn't be able to live your life if the State didn't provide you with for example infrastructure. Really? Does my life REALLY depend on infrastructure? Would I REALLY stop breathing if I didn't have a bus to ride, or an asphalted road to walk on?

We have become SOFT; we are no longer using or bodies to the full. WE have become COMFORTABLE. If we are willing to give up our comfort the State has nothing left to offer. If we give up the material things the State produces for our leasure and distraction we at present can't live without, we are suddenly free from manipulation and coercion. How could the State force an individual to do anything if that individual didn't want anything the State had to offer in return?

In its most desperate attempt at fooling us we need the State, it claims that we are threatened by "global terrorism" and that the State can protect us from that "global terrorism".

If I had ANY choice in the matter I'd say "don't protect me from "global terrorism" you, the State, created as an excuse to claim you are necessary."

I agree with both TB and Ahmad that we need to go back to smaller communities, like villages, where everyone know eachother and protect and help eachother.

Like I said to TB before though, the State would do everything in its power to destroy such a community because it would threaten the State's very excuse for existing.
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  #35  
Old 04-09-2005, 10:44 AM
truebeliever truebeliever is offline
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Default Re: Self-Sufficiency vs. Comfort

My sister owns 10 acres of prime realestate out of a town.

Even if she provides perfectly good water and sewerage facilities (easily done), she cannot subdivide that land. Only the local council can provide water and sewerage and that will take 10-15 years.

It's her land...she however, does not own it by any definition. She cannot do what she wants on that land. No more easily identifiable reason for being pissed off exists for me at this moment.

The State, on a whim, a jealous competitor in high position can make life hell for you.

They can peer into your backyard with satellite photo's to make sure you hav'nt built an illegal 'terrorist' pergola. They are beautiful A4 sized high definition photo's of your backyard brought up on a computer and printed out in a few minutes.

I will have my land, but clear in my mind is that people will have to fight.

I dont want to sound melodramatic, but people really have to let the State know...if they want to get busy, sticking their pig snouts in peoples business, they should know ordinary people will fight back. By whatever means appropriate. People need to draw a line in the sand and say NO FURTHER.

Where is their to run? We will all have to fight...we can still have a tree filled block of land though...with permaculture. Yum, yum.
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  #36  
Old 04-09-2005, 11:46 AM
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Ozziecynic Ozziecynic is offline
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Default Re: Self-Sufficiency vs. Comfort

:-?
Quote:
If you mean the reality of Statist coercion and threats to individual freedom like taxes and "welfare systems" and "democratic human rights" it really all depends on how much comfort you've let yourself be bribed with.
Dragon: This isnt Sweden you know we dont have a Democratic socialist type government or excessive bureaucracy here in Australia. Infact i have made it clear before it is opposite. Foreign Corps and their Market liberal supporters pushing their economic rationalist mantra have control over au at the present time and our future looks like even more privatistaion of essential serivices.So I am afraid socialism is nowhere on the horizon here.I forgot your one of the market liberals arent you!.

Quote:
Most people can't imagine a life without TV. I've decided to give up TV half-a-year ago and I don't intend to EVER go back. This is an illustration on a miniscule scale of what it would take to become independent and self-sufficient. The State claims that you wouldn't be able to live your life if the State didn't provide you with for example infrastructure. Really? Does my life REALLY depend on infrastructure? Would I REALLY stop breathing if I didn't have a bus to ride, or an asphalted road to walk on?
Yes i agree with all this, but Liberal capitalism brings us all this. The state just takes care of criminal law enforcement and taxes. It looks like these two responibilites will be it s only functions in Australia very soon.


Quote:
I agree with both TB and Ahmad that we need to go back to smaller communities, like villages, where everyone know eachother and protect and help eachother.
Dragon: Did you see this in my last post to TB:
Quote:
Further i understand market liberals and libertarians believed in living in a centralised corporatised economic system not decentralised societies or community since they believe that all relationships only exist with the framework of the voluntary exchange of goods and services (hayek)and since these are monopolised increasingly by big business they set the ground rules.
The fact is Market Liberals and the Conglomerate capitalism they encourge would be the first to want to stifle such an idea! The state maybe used as stormtroopers if they are not also a Private militia by then, but apart from that it seems Mega liberal capitalism has a problem with the concept more than the state atleast in Australias case.

Ps By the way I know Draken means Dragon in Scandinavian so Question:Because you believe yourself to be a reasonably religious man like many others here why do you call yourself Dragon.My understanding was the dragon was a sign of satan to be honest!.
:-?
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  #37  
Old 04-09-2005, 11:56 AM
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Ozziecynic Ozziecynic is offline
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Default Re: Self-Sufficiency vs. Comfort

TB:
Quote:
The State, on a whim, a jealous competitor in high position can make life hell for you.
And like mega Private enterprise wont!.Maybe you should see that Bond movie "Tomorrow Never Dies" it shows you just how powerfull one tycoon can become!

What about this in my last post to you on the concept it still remains unanswered!.

Quote:
Further i understand market liberals and libertarians believed in living in a centralised corporatised economic system not decentralised societies or community since they believe that all relationships only exist with the framework of the voluntary exchange of goods and services (hayek)and since these are monopolised increasingly by big business they set the ground rules.
:-?
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  #38  
Old 04-09-2005, 05:43 PM
Draken Draken is offline
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Default Re: Self-Sufficiency vs. Comfort

Yeah, "dragon" is a symbol of Satan - according to the Catholic Church.:lol:

In some other parts of the world the dragon is quite a positive symbol...

I'm definately a "religious" person - there are other religions than the one you, OC, adhere to though.:-D
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  #39  
Old 04-09-2005, 09:30 PM
truebeliever truebeliever is offline
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Default Re: Self-Sufficiency vs. Comfort

Yo OC.

My stepfather has been a trady/builder for 40 years. Most of his friends are retired but still active.

We need to really define what the system is.

The system has nothing to do with free markets and 'liberal', low government interference policies.

It is socialism by any definition whereby members of the same class (managerial) whether in the private or public sector, utilise the power of the State to further their own agenda's.

What is currently unfolding around the world has absoloutly NOTHING to do with free market liberalism. It is imperial domination mixed in with socialist/fuedal powers systems of control.

They can talk the talk all they like. When they walk...it's to the left...as John Raulston Saul points out----> the so-called Capitalists of today are socialists in drag who wont get out of bed in the morning without a government subsidy, cartel agreement or huge tariff. They would die of shock should they compete...

Look at our own Ralph Sarich and the 'Orbital Engine'. A true capitalist by ANY defintition... the cartel's involving the car and oil industry canned him with the full co-operation of the Federal and State Australian governments who refused to help in ANY way though they regularly waste tax payers cash on their friends (Howard and his mate in the ethanol industry).

In the end, without fancy economic analysis...it's simply a system of class warfare whereby a grouping of individuals with the same philosophic and class consciousness, seek to use all the tools at their disposal to maintain power and privelidge.

It is rightly called fuedalism. The return of Kings and robber barrons ruling a vast peasant class.

However...just which God will be ordaining the new Kings of today?

With the rise of Secular Humanism, the U.N, on what ultimate value will this new King rule?
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  #40  
Old 04-10-2005, 04:58 AM
Draken Draken is offline
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Default Re: Self-Sufficiency vs. Comfort

Just a comment: feudalism wasn't always an excuse for kings and robber barons to oppress the peasants. There was a time feudalism wasn't the clandestine counterfeit it is today.
There was a time when just and wise kings ruled and everyone knew and accepted their place in the hierarchy. There was a reason for everyone to be in that particular place and that reason wasn't made up by neither kings nor peasants.

Feudalism can be a good system, provided the right people are in the right places, where everyone knows his worth and everyone's contribution is needed and appreciated.
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