Go Back   Club Conspiracy Forums > General Conspiracy Discussion > New World Order > New World Order operatives
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 03-26-2005, 11:30 AM
Draken Draken is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 896
Default Re: Churchgoers are idolators!


As an introduction to what is called Sophia Perennis and the people associated with this way of thought I recommend this explanation of the doctrine of the transcendent unity of religions. This concept is of relevance to the current discussion. <a href="http://www.integralscience.org/unity.html">On The Transcendent Unity of Religions
Copyright 1993 Thomas J. McFarlane</a>

If anyone wishes to explore in depth these concepts I recommend my thread <a href="http://www.clubconspiracy.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=590&forum=3&PHPSESSID=52602 859251dfcd0c98e2781582bbb9f">INTEGRAL TRADITION Revolt against the modern world CONSERVATIVE REVOLUTION</a> and the following sites:

http://www.religioperennis.org/
http://www.seriousseekers.com/
http://www.worldwisdom.com/
http://www.frithjof-schuon.com/
http://www.geocities.com/integral_tradition/

__________________
Three things are sacred to me: first Truth, and then, in its tracks, primordial prayer; Then virtue–nobility of soul which, in God walks on the path of beauty. Frithjof Schuon
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-26-2005, 11:48 AM
psholtz psholtz is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 246
Default Re: Churchgoers are idolators!

Quote:
Saturnino wrote:
Christians who worship Jesus and go to church are just doing what Jesus Christ told them to do.
btw, like I said in my first post on this thread, the guy's named simply isn't "Jesus Christ".. There never lived a man whose name was "Jesus Christ", so it's pretty much impossible for this (imaginary) man to have ordered the "Christian" church to "worship" him, as you're implying..

If you're going to idolize the man, at least do him the kind service of invoking him by his real name (which most certainly, is not "Jesus Christ").

Of course, I'm not denying that 2000 years ago there lived a great Holy Man in Palestine (by the name of Yeshua), and that this man's life is documented in the Christian New Testament, and that He worked many miracles and that He was a veritable Son of God. This much I believe all to be True.

Of course... the guy's name wasn't Jesus, and he wasn't white and he didn't have blond hair and blue eyes like all your idolatorous pictures of him depict.. but then again that's kinda my whole point. It's be really hard for "Christian" churches in WASP America to "worship Jesus" if they had to "worship" some short brown Palestinian w/ a fuzzy afro.. Just wouldn't go over quite so well w/ the "congregation".. Hence the IDOLATORY of worshipping this IMAGINARY (Aryan-ized) "Jesus Christ"..

Just stick to living your life as closely as possible to the way Jesus lived His, and you'll be doing God 1000x more honor and "worship" than you could by all your idolizing of "Jesus"..
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-26-2005, 01:28 PM
Ahmad Ahmad is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 382
Default Re: Churchgoers are idolators!

Peace be upon you,

SampleX asked: "May I ask why the Quran is being quoted alongside the Bible in relation to the Lordship and Deity of Jesus Christ. Save for quoting LaVey's Satanic Bible, I cannot think of two more diametrically opposed books"

Quran is the final testament, it confirms and supersedes ALL the previous scriptures including the old and new testament. Many people though buy the propaganda that the book is satanic, and the sad truth about the "muslim" world confirm their doubts, however what may be surprising to you is the fact that the "muslim" world now have ABANDONED Quran en masse!, they follow a collection of books called "Hadith" that was developed by Satan to divert them from Quran and to divide them into sects, each happy with the collection of Hadiths (Sayings falsely attributed to Muhammad) they have, thus the Sunni have their own collection and the Shiaa have their own and that's why they always fight (totally different satanic religions).

------------------------------------------------

SampleX: "The fact remains that Jesus was challenged before a Roman court as to his claims of being divine, and they were never refuted, and moreso he confirmed them with the response 'YhWh' - I Am."


Part 1 of Satan's propaganda is to make us believe that Jesus was persecuted because of his claim of devinity. However the truth is the Jews persecuited him because: 1- He taught his followers to abandon the man-made teachings (Mishnah, early oral Talmud) and worship God alone. 2- He asked the Jewish priests to believe the Gospels he was sent with, and follow his command.

This ofcourse enraged the Jewish priests who were already revered as gods, they felt threatened, their thrones were crumbling with each word Jesus spoke, he said that the only authority is God's and not that of a few elite.

Part 2 of the hoax is to make us believe that Jesus was tortured. Quran confirms that he was indeed crucified, BUT before the torture began, God saved his "honorable" messenger prophet, God raised his soul to Heaven, while his body stayed in a state of alertness (like Terri Schiavo's), his eyes were wide open, yet he was making no response.

Why Satan authored this torture part? to induce a trauma in the minds, a trauma can be succesfuly induced if you mix intense love with a horrible event, the result is idol-worship, which simply means attributing "independent powers" to the tortured person, thus he becomes a god (with inherent power) this time the power Satan wanted to attribute to the dead Jesus was (the power of knowledge and granting salvation).

Satan by one stroke shifted the focus of the message from God (the Sender) to the postman, Jesus.

Part 3, Satan then found himself with two groups, one group (the sincere disciples) insisting that Jesus was a human messenger and the message is what should be followed from then on, the other group that was brainwashed by the crucifixion hoax held that Jesus was God himself, Satan then thought "there must be a compromise to bring those two groups together" so he developed the trinity concept, which is a mix of egyptian and roman mythology, then he ordered the pagan roman emperor Constantine to put an end to the disputes and institute by force the doctrine of trinity (in the Nicea, Nicine Conference 325AD), thus he turned Jesus into a father/son god, and Gabriel into a devine holy spirit.

Yet the truth remains that Jesus and Gabriel are no more than created messengers who are totally powerless and dependent on their Creator, which means that their knowledge, their miracles..etc were not from them but from God.

------------------------------------------

SampleX: "Further still, when Satan tempted Jesus in the Wilderness he didn't respond 'you shouldn't press me because I'm a messenger of God and he's got my back...' He spoke with authority and knowledge, and said 'You shall not tempt the Lord your God.'"


Could you please tell me where in the bible i can find this quote?

-------------------------------------------

SampleX: "Further still, the quotations that were provided by Ahmad are entirely liberalised and their meaning altered in the process... I note in the quotation from John 12, the convenient omission, with a replacing '...' of Jesus stating 'he who has seen me has seen the one that sent me.'


If this was the correct translation then it must be a satanic injection, for it contradicts the whole message of the scriptures that none equals God and that no vision can encompass Him.

[6:103] No visions can encompass Him, but He encompasses all visions. He is the Compassionate, the Cognizant.

---------------------------------------------

SampleX: "While Jesus may not specifically mention 'trinity' by name, he certainly makes frequent allusion to it and equates Himself with it in equality.The trinity is doctrinally alluded to in the New Testament, because the NT was written by Jews, who understood the triune God from Judaism. And the trinity IS alluded to in the Old Testament"


God never beats around the bush, God is direct, the ideas are clear and simple, the "Allusions" you mention come from Satan, he is the master of allusions and illusions. Why leave the 90% direct, clear verses and stick to the vague (multiple meaning) ones?

-------------------------------------------

SampleX: "Elohim, the Hebrew for God, is a linguistic plural, yet inseparable, and is a common pluralistic thread of the Old Testament scripture which reiterates time and time again the themality of triune deity, and the varisome person of God (Elohim)."

FromThe Catholic Encyclopedia:

Elohim is the common name for God. It is a plural form, but "The usage of the language gives no support to the supposition that we have in the plural form Elohim, applied to the God of Israel, the remains of an early polytheism, or at least a combination with the higher spiritual beings" (Kautzsch). Grammarians call it a plural of majesty or rank, or of abstraction, or of magnitude (Gesenius, Grammatik, 27th ed., nn. 124 g, 132 h).

--------------------------------------------

SampleX:"It also seems to be forgotten that Abraham's own prophecy about what would take place on the very same mount outside Jerusalem, 'God will provide Himself a sacrifice...' directly identifies by geographical location, by type, and by a clear revelation of the anticipation of the future, the person of Jesus Christ, the sacrifice of God, with 'God Himself'"

Also here could you please give a reference.

-----------------------------------------

SampleX: "The rest of the scripture quoted here, seems to be quoted entirely out of context. Manipulation to fit the bill of what Ahmad wanted to say, it seems..."

So could you mention the right context?
__________________
---------------------------------------
God\'s alternative, USN

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

[3:19] The only religion approved by GOD is \"Submission.\"...
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-26-2005, 02:55 PM
Draken Draken is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 896
Default Re: Churchgoers are idolators!

Quote:
Of course... the guy's name wasn't Jesus, and he wasn't white and he didn't have blond hair and blue eyes like all your idolatorous pictures of him depict.. but then again that's kinda my whole point. It's be really hard for "Christian" churches in WASP America to "worship Jesus" if they had to "worship" some short brown Palestinian w/ a fuzzy afro.. Just wouldn't go over quite so well w/ the "congregation".. Hence the IDOLATORY of worshipping this IMAGINARY (Aryan-ized) "Jesus Christ"..
psholtz, what difference does it make what Jesus Christ looked like or what his name was?
He simply transcended definition by SAYING what he said and simply BEING.
It's irrelevant how he looked or what his actual name was since he said Himself that he's not doing anything in his own name but in GOD'S NAME.
__________________
Three things are sacred to me: first Truth, and then, in its tracks, primordial prayer; Then virtue–nobility of soul which, in God walks on the path of beauty. Frithjof Schuon
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-26-2005, 05:39 PM
psholtz psholtz is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 246
Default Re: Churchgoers are idolators!

Quote:
Draken wrote:
Quote:
Of course... the guy's name wasn't Jesus, and he wasn't white and he didn't have blond hair and blue eyes like all your idolatorous pictures of him depict.. but then again that's kinda my whole point. It's be really hard for "Christian" churches in WASP America to "worship Jesus" if they had to "worship" some short brown Palestinian w/ a fuzzy afro.. Just wouldn't go over quite so well w/ the "congregation".. Hence the IDOLATORY of worshipping this IMAGINARY (Aryan-ized) "Jesus Christ"..
psholtz, what difference does it make what Jesus Christ looked like or what his name was?
He simply transcended definition by SAYING what he said and simply BEING.
It's irrelevant how he looked or what his actual name was since he said Himself that he's not doing anything in his own name but in GOD'S NAME.
You're correct. What Jesus said and did are what made Him who He is/was.. and what skin color he had and what his name really was is of no bearing (to me, at any rate).

However, it is of very great importance to the millions of (so-called) "Christians" out there who worship the blue-haired, blue-eyed White Jesus, rather than worshipping the (one and only) God who Choose to work through Jesus..

Take down the familiar hippie-throw-back, white surfer-dude image of Jesus that we're familiar with, replace it w/ an image of what Jesus (Yeshua?) really looked like (short, dark-skinned Palestinian w/ thick, curly hair) and ask WASP America to bow down and worship that image of Jesus..

I guarantee you it won't happen...
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-26-2005, 05:42 PM
psholtz psholtz is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 246
Default Re: Churchgoers are idolators!

Quote:
Draken wrote:
It's irrelevant how he looked or what his actual name was since he said Himself that he's not doing anything in his own name but in GOD'S NAME.
I agree 1000% w/ that statement.. although I'll also guarantee you that the truth of this statement is lost on 99.8% of the world's "Christian" community, who choose rather to worship an idolatorous "image" of the man Jesus, instead of worshipping the God who choose to work through Jesus..
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-26-2005, 06:53 PM
Saturnino Saturnino is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 624
Default Re: Churchgoers are idolators!

Many people say they are Christians because they like Christ`s teachings...and who doesn`t ? deep inside we know that love is the answer, that helping people is good, etc.
However, the core of the teaching of Jesus is His sacrifice for our sins. He said He was the truth, the way and the life. Real Christians repent of their sins, accept the substitute sacrifice of Christ (let Jesus pay the penalty) and are forgiven. This is the core of Christianity.
If you like Jesus` teachings but don`t believe the above, you are not a Christian, you are simply a sympathizer of Christ`s teachings, which is something good in itself, but according to the Bible, won`t save your soul.

PS: why people call Him Jesus Christ ? Because Christ means Messiah, or annointed. This is a position, not a name. When we say Jesus Christ, this means that the man Jesus (or Yeshua) is the Messiah. New Age people believe that Christ is a position that is taken by many different beings. Christians believe that only Jesus was the real and only Messiah. I personnaly don`t think that Jesus was blond and blue eyed, but this is such a minor issue when compared with the fact that He was God or not.

Jesus never rejected adoration as God. God the Father Himself told people to obey Jesus and qualified Him as His Son (in His baptism and in the transfiguration). Thomas called Jesus my Lord and my God and Jesus didn`t reject this. Jesus was killed because He made Himself like God, an heresy to the Pharisees, who like the Muslims, could not see the many prophecies about Him in the Old Testament. You can reject Christ if you want, but He made His point very clear. If He was not God, He was a very crazy man.

About Jesus doing the Father`s will,and because of that being less than God, you are missing the point. He came to this earth as a Lamb to be sacrificed. He came to teach us obedience. That`s why he folowed the Father`s will, so that thru His experience we could learn to do the same. That`s why He was called the Son. It is a position He took, not a fact that came from being created by the Father (there is only one God in three persons). However, He is not a simpleton right now without a voice...the Bible tells us that He is actually rulling the universe and keeping things together this very moment. Once his mission was accomplished, He returned to His business of rulling the universe as usual.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-27-2005, 12:30 AM
Ahmad Ahmad is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 382
Default Re: Churchgoers are idolators!

Peace Marcos,

It happens for most of us that we grow and inherit our parents' beliefs, i for one followed my father's religion blindly, i remember that he took me oneday to visit a shrine of a dead saint, it was a mosque with a small room inside where the saint is buried, then he took my hand and started circling the tomb and said that by praying here all my wishes will be granted!

That seemed strange to me at the time, why would praying at the tomb of a dead man be any different from praying at home! praise be to God, now i understand the magnitude of deception.

I ask you to start questioning your beliefs before it's too late. Just listen to yourself my friend,

Santurino: "Jesus never rejected adoration as God. God the Father Himself told people to obey Jesus and qualified Him as His Son (in His baptism and in the transfiguration)."


So in the same breath, you say that Jesus IS God (the father) and then you say that the father (Jesus) told people to obey the son (also Jesus) ?

Does this idea conform with a simple man's logic? do you think God will create us with such a brain to confuse it?

So according to your inherited belief there are two probabilities:

1- Jesus is God, the father.
2- Jesus is the son of God, the father.


In the first case, Jesus cannot be a son, he would be a god who descended to demonstrate something to his creation. In the second case, he would be a son of that god, thus lower in rank.

Now your inherited belief again contradict these two positions, if Jesus was God, how on earth would that Omnipotent God submit to His own self imposed rules and sacrifice Himself! and to whom?

And if we assume that Jesus was the son, then he can not be God (the father) in the same time.

So it's either that Jesus is God or a part of God, which position do you take?

And don't tell me they are three in one, but still one, because 3 = not 1.

[5:116] GOD will say, "O Jesus, son of Mary, did you say to the people, `Make me and my mother idols beside GOD?' " He will say, "Be You glorified. I could not utter what was not right. Had I said it, You already would have known it. You know my thoughts, and I do not know Your thoughts. You know all the secrets.
[5:117] "I told them only what You commanded me to say, that: `You shall worship GOD, my Lord and your Lord.' I was a witness among them for as long as I lived with them. When You terminated my life on earth, You became the Watcher over them. You witness all things.
__________________
---------------------------------------
God\'s alternative, USN

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

[3:19] The only religion approved by GOD is \"Submission.\"...
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-27-2005, 01:39 AM
Draken Draken is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 896
Default Jesus From A Hindu Perspective

We haven't read too many things about Jesus from a Hindu perspective so here goes:

<a href="http://www.hinduism.co.za/jesus.htm#Was%20Christ%20a%20Yogi?">Was Christ a Yogi? By Swami Abhedananda</a>
Jesus was a great Yogi, because He realized the transitory and ephemeral
nature of the phenomenal world, and, discriminating the real from the unreal, renounced all desires for worldly pleasures and bodily comforts. Like a great
Yogi He lived a life of seclusion, cutting off all connections with earthly friends
and relatives, and having neither home nor possessions of His own.

Jesus the Christ was a great Karma Yogi, because He never worked for
gains (He worked without expectation of any fruits thereof). He has neither
desire for name nor ambition for fame or for earthly prosperity. His works
were a free offering to the world. He laboured for others, devoted His whole
life to help others, and in the end died for others. Being unattached to the f
ruits of his actions, he worked incessantly for the good of His fellow men,
directing them to the path of righteousness and spiritual realization through
unselfish works. He understood the law of action and reaction, which is the
fundamental principle of the Karma yoga, and it was for this reason He
declared: ‘Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap’.

Jesus of Nazareth proved Himself to be a great Bhakti (devotion) Yogi, a true
lover of God, by His unswerving devotion and His whole-hearted love for the
Heavenly Father. His unceasing prayers, incessant supplications, constant
meditation, and unflinching self-resignation to the will of the Almighty made
Him shine like a glorious morning star in the horizon of love and devotion of
a true Bhakti Yogi. Christ showed wonderful self-control and mastery over His
mind throughout the trials and the sufferings. His sorrow, agony and
self-surrender at the time of His death as well as before His crucifixion, are
conclusive proofs that He was a human being with those divine qualities that
adorn the soul of a true Bhakti Yogi. It is true that His soul laboured for a
while under the heavy burden of His trials and sufferings; it is also true that
He felt that His pain was becoming well-nigh unbearable, when He cried
aloud three times, praying to the Lord: ‘O my Father, if it be possible, let this
cup pass from me’. But He found neither peace nor consolation until He could
absolutely reign His will to that of the Father and could say from the bottom
of His heart, ‘Thy will be done’. The complete self-surrender and absolute
self-resignation are the principal virtues of Bhakti Yoga, and as Christ
possessed these to perfection up to the last moment of His life, He was a
true Bhakti Yogi.

Like the great Raja Yogis in India, Jesus knew the secret of separating His
soul from His physical shell, and He showed this at the time of His death,
while his body was suffering from extreme pain, by saying, ‘Father, forgive
them, for they know not what they do’. It is quite an unusual event to see one
imploring forgiveness for his persecutors, while dying on the cross, but from a
Yogi’s point of view it is both possible and natural. Ramakrishna, the greatest
Yogi of the nineteenth century, whose life and sayings have been written by
Max Muller, was once asked, ‘How could Jesus pray for His persecutors,
when He was in agony on the cross?’ Ramakrishna answered by an
llustration: ‘When the shell of an ordinary green cocoanut is pierced through,
the nail enters the kernel of the nut too. But in the case of the dry cocoanut
the kernel becomes separate from the shell, and so when the shell is pierced,
the kernel is not touched. Jesus was like the dry nut, i.e., His inner soul was
separate from His physical shell, and consequently, the sufferings of the body
did not affect Him’. Therefore, He could pray for the forgiveness of His
persecutors even when His body was suffering; and all true yogis are able to
do the same. There have been many instances of Yogis whose bodies have
been cut into pieces, but their souls never for a moment lost that peace and
equanimity which enabled Jesus to forgive and bless His persecutors. By this
Christ proved that like other Yogis, His soul was completely emancipated from
the bondage of the body and of the feelings. Therefore, Christ was a Yogi.

Through the path of devotion and love, Jesus attained to the realization of
oneness of the individual soul with the Father or the universal Spirit, which is
the ideal of a Jnana Yogi as well as the ultimate goal of all religions. A Jnana
Yogi says: ‘I am He’; ‘I am Brahman’; ‘I am the absolute Truth’; ‘I am one with
the Supreme Deity’. By good works, devotion, love, concentration,
contemplation, long fasting and prayer, Jesus the Christ realized that His
soul was one with God; therefore, He may be said to have attained the ideal
of Jnana Yoga.

Like Krishna, Buddha and all other great Yogis of India, Jesus healed the sick,
opened the eyes of the blind, made the lame walk, and read the secret
thoughts of His disciples. He knew exactly what Judas and Peter were going
to do, but there was nothing supernatural in any of His actions. There was
nothing that cannot be done over and over again by a true Yogi, and there was
nothing in His life that cannot be explained rationally by the science of Yoga
and the philosophy of Vedanta. Without the help of this science and this
philosophy, Jesus the Christ cannot be fully understood and appreciated.
By studying His character, on the other hand, in the light of the Vedanta
philosophy, we shall be able not only to understand Him better, but to have
a larger appreciation of His true glory.


For more on Jesus and Christianity/Churchianity:
<a href="http://www.hinduism.co.za/jesus.htm">Jesus versus Churchianity</a>
__________________
Three things are sacred to me: first Truth, and then, in its tracks, primordial prayer; Then virtue–nobility of soul which, in God walks on the path of beauty. Frithjof Schuon
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-27-2005, 02:18 AM
psholtz psholtz is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 246
Default Re: Jesus From A Hindu Perspective

Quote:
Draken wrote:
We haven't read too many things about Jesus from a Hindu perspective so here goes:

<a href="http://www.hinduism.co.za/jesus.htm#Was%20Christ%20a%20Yogi?">Was Christ a Yogi? By Swami Abhedananda</a>
Jesus was a great Yogi, because He realized the transitory and ephemeral
nature of the phenomenal world, and, discriminating the real from the unreal, renounced all desires for worldly pleasures and bodily comforts. Like a great
Yogi He lived a life of seclusion, cutting off all connections with earthly friends
and relatives, and having neither home nor possessions of His own.
I agree that Christ may have been a "yogi" (had master control over His mind and body), and I agree that he (very clearly) understood the emphemeral and unreal and illusory nature of what we call "Reality" (<- this is, imho, the purpose and foundation of all great religions).

However, I disagree that he renounced all worldly desires and/or needs. The teaching of "Render unto Ceasar that which belongs to Ceasar, and render unto God that which belongs to God" teaches quite clearly that Jesus understood the body (material) to be just as important to man's spiritual development as the Soul (spiritual).

I also disagree that he lived in "seclusion".. He healed countless numbers of people, and he wouldn't have been crucified had he lived in "seclusion"..
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Idolators of Zion: Orthodox Jews Reject Zionism, So Should Christians Barbara General Conspiracy Discussion 2 09-09-2005 05:30 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:36 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.12
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.