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  #1  
Old 03-25-2005, 01:38 PM
rushdoony rushdoony is offline
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Default Churchgoers are idolators!


What is The Ecclesia?
By Ben Williams


"Ecclesia" is an entirely different word with an entirely different meaning than "kuriakos" ("church")

Eventually, through the manipulation of organized religion, "church" came to replace "ecclesia" by popular acceptance. Indeed, churches have achieved their goal-- to neutralize Christians!

Churches are proving grounds for religious tricksters, con artists and politicians. Churches facilitate greed and superstition. They prey upon the gullible. CHURCH IS THE GREAT AMERICAN IDOL, AND CHURCHGOERS ARE IDOLATERS.

The Greek "ecclesia" was "a civil body politic." This is strong proof that the Christian "ecclesia" we read about in the New Testament was an INDEPENDENT CIVIL BODY OF CHRISTIANS -- independent from rulers and man's government. Their objective was to be free to serve King Jesus. This phenomenon had nothing to do with building and attending churches! Churches are NOT ecclesias!

Part One: What Is The Ecclesia?


Part Two: Is It A Church? Is It A Cult? Is It Important?


Part Three: Life On The Plantation
http://www.lawfulpath.com/ref/ecclesia/

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  #2  
Old 03-25-2005, 04:40 PM
DarkChilde3D DarkChilde3D is offline
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Default Re: Churchgoers are idolators!

THANK YOU FOR MAKING THIS STATEMENT!

The only reason I'm getting my daughter baptized is the matter of tradition.
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  #3  
Old 03-25-2005, 05:18 PM
Saturnino Saturnino is offline
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Default Re: Churchgoers are idolators!

I am myself a person who has been hurt by church but I don`t agree with the radicalism. The Bible is very clear that we are supposed to meet as a group, called local church. I know that church in the spiritual sense is the whole body of Christ, but a good church is important for many many reasons. Among them support, encouragement, learning, fellowship, worship, etc.

The problem is not the church itself, it is the BAD churches that are all around us...thanks to the apostates, church marketing guys, Crystal Cathedral people, Rick Warrens, etc. But a church doesn`t HAVE to be bad.
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Old 03-25-2005, 06:02 PM
nohope187 nohope187 is offline
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Default Re: Churchgoers are idolators!

I like this thread. Most, if not all churches in Amerika of any denomination are corporate churches, which means they're married to the State, making them creatures of the State. Now that God has been kicked out of government, the State wants to take his place. So far, their efforts have gone unhindered. So basically, you can say that every modern church goer really is a worshiper of the State. :-P
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Old 03-26-2005, 05:56 AM
psholtz psholtz is offline
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Default Re: Churchgoers are idolators!

I've always felt that the mainstream Christian "worship" of "Jesus" borders on the idolatorous. You're still supposed to worship God, not man, and at the end of the day Jesus was still a man. Christ is that from God which is Divine, but despite the name ("Christian"), nobody in any Christian church I've ever been to worships "Christ" -- they will worship this man named "Jesus"..

There's as big a diff between "Jesus" and "Christ" as there is between "Ecclesia" and "kuriakos"..

I mean, if we're going to worship an idol, than let's at least get the name right and worship "Yushua ben Pantera", since as near as the archaelogists can tell us, that's the guy's real name.. Not "Jesus", which is an idolatorous Greek acronym based upon the name..
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Old 03-26-2005, 07:59 AM
Saturnino Saturnino is offline
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Default Re: Churchgoers are idolators!

Man, your problem is not with churches, it is with Christianity. Jesus was 100% man and 100% God. This is basic Christianity. Therefore, when people worship Jesus, they are worshipping God.

In this, churchgoers are totally correct. Who do you want them to worship, if not Jesus ? Your position doesn`t make sense. If you don`t want to be a Christian, it is your problem, but definetly you can`t blame people for doing what is right in their religion. Christians who worship Jesus and go to church are just doing what Jesus Christ told them to do.
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Old 03-26-2005, 08:10 AM
Ahmad Ahmad is offline
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Default Re: Churchgoers are idolators!

Peace


Jesus never told anybody to worship him.



excerpts from Appendix 22

Trinity, the doctrine of God taught by Christians that asserts that God is one in essence but three in ``person,'' Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such,
appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: ``Hear O Israel: The Lord our God is one'' (Deut. 6:4).
[ Encyclopedia Britannica, 1975 ]


Here is what Jesus actually said,

Jesus proclaimed aloud: ``Whoever puts faith in me believes not so much in me as in him who sent me; ..... For I have not spoken on my own; no, the Father who sent me has commanded me what to say and how to speak. Since I know that his commandment means eternal life, whatever I say is spoken just as he instructed me.'' [ John 12:44-50 ]

"I cannot do anything of myself. I judge as I hear, and my judgment is honest because I am not seeking my own will but the will of him who sent me." [ John 5:30 ]

Jesus said: ``My doctrine is not my own; it comes from him who sent me.'' [ John 7:16 ]

"Men of Israel, listen to me! Jesus the Nazorean was a man whom God sent to you with miracles, wonders, and signs as his credentials. These God worked through him in your midst, as you well know."
[ Acts 2:22 ]

``...I have not come of myself. I was sent by One who has the right to send, and him you do not know. I know him because it is from him I come; he sent me.'' [ John 7:28-29 ]

Jesus looked up to heaven and said, ``...Eternal life is this: to know you, the only true God, and him whom you have sent, Jesus Christ.'' [ John 17:1-3 ]

``...Go to my brothers and tell them, `I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.' '' [ John 20:17 ]

``God is my Lord and your Lord; you shall worship Him alone. This is the right path."
[ Quran 3:51, 19:36, & 43:64 ]
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Old 03-26-2005, 09:43 AM
Draken Draken is offline
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Default Re: Churchgoers are idolators!

In support of Ahmad on this one all the way.
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Old 03-26-2005, 11:33 AM
SampleX SampleX is offline
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Default Re: Churchgoers are idolators!

May I ask why the Quran is being quoted alongside the Bible in relation to the Lordship and Deity of Jesus Christ. Save for quoting LaVey's Satanic Bible, I cannot think of two more diametrically opposed books.

The arguments attempting to scripturally diminish the deity of Christ are selectively semantic.

The fact remains that Jesus was challenged before a Roman court as to his claims of being divine, and they were never refuted, and moreso he confirmed them with the response 'YhWh' - I Am.

Further still, when Satan tempted Jesus in the Wilderness he didn't respond 'you shouldn't press me because I'm a messenger of God and he's got my back...' He spoke with authority and knowledge, and said 'You shall not tempt the Lord your God.'

Further still, the quotations that were provided by Ahmad are entirely liberalised and their meaning altered in the process... I note in the quotation from John 12, the convenient omission, with a replacing '...' of Jesus stating 'he who has seen me has seen the one that sent me.' While Jesus may not specifically mention 'trinity' by name, he certainly makes frequent allusion to it and equates Himself with it in equality.

The trinity is doctrinally alluded to in the New Testament, because the NT was written by Jews, who understood the triune God from Judaism. And the trinity IS alluded to in the Old Testament, from the original Hebrew... Elohim, the Hebrew for God, is a linguistic plural, yet inseparable, and is a common pluralistic thread of the Old Testament scripture which reiterates time and time again the themality of triune deity, and the varisome person of God (Elohim). The reason that nothing in New Testament doctrine 'contradicts' the Shema or the original texts of the Torah is because the understanding of the Hebrew tradition was well beyond our own linguistic translation, and they already accepted 'elohim'.

It also seems to be forgotten that Abraham's own prophecy about what would take place on the very same mount outside Jerusalem, 'God will provide Himself a sacrifice...' directly identifies by geographical location, by type, and by a clear revelation of the anticipation of the future, the person of Jesus Christ, the sacrifice of God, with 'God Himself'...

The rest of the scripture quoted here, seems to be quoted entirely out of context. Manipulation to fit the bill of what Ahmad wanted to say, it seems...
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Old 03-26-2005, 12:30 PM
psholtz psholtz is offline
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Default Re: Churchgoers are idolators!

Quote:
Saturnino wrote:
Man, your problem is not with churches, it is with Christianity. Jesus was 100% man and 100% God. This is basic Christianity. Therefore, when people worship Jesus, they are worshipping God.

In this, churchgoers are totally correct. Who do you want them to worship, if not Jesus ? Your position doesn`t make sense. If you don`t want to be a Christian, it is your problem, but definetly you can`t blame people for doing what is right in their religion. Christians who worship Jesus and go to church are just doing what Jesus Christ told them to do.
I have no problems w/ Christianity.. in fact, I regard myself as a "Christian", insofar as I'm a FOLLOWER of Christ, not an IDOLATOR of Jesus. There's a huge difference.

Jesus set an example by walking a Path that all Christians are called upon to follow. But how few "Christians" there are who truly take it upon themselves to follow this Path?

Like ahmad says, worship the God who worked through Jesus, and if you're lucky, maybe God will work through you in a similar manner. This is the highest calling a Christian can take upon themselves.
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