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  #31  
Old 01-13-2005, 01:58 PM
billiard billiard is offline
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Default Re: Marxism


ozzie

you said:

"Speak for yourself it has created no such comfort or good life for me! For employees that is what i have been for most of life.A Free trade economy is bad news for industrial relations and all kinds of issues related to wages and causalisation outsourcing etc."

my response:

do you have a car oz? or a phone?how about a television or a computer? a soft bed , a place to live with doors and windows? you have lots of comforts many in this world do not have . and free market capitalism made those things so common you don't think of them as comforts ,made prosperity accessible to millions . the pursuit of profit,gain,wealth, this is not evil.to want a nicer house,or car or to take a nicer vacation with your family or travel to see the places you read about ...what is wrong with that? you probably want those things yourself .sounds like the old class warfare-socialism trick to me .

listen to me : what is called free trade today is NOT free. the capitalism you see today has been perverted and is NOT free market any longer .it is monopolistic .corrupt government(yours AND mine) has SCREWED it's people,betrayed us for twenty pieces of silver . just because you hear "free trade zone" from the talking heads doesn't mean the trade is truly free .

you said:

"I am not sure what kind of segment of the american demograhic is represented on this forum but it seems after being here atleast a month a good proporation are disgruntled small enterprise owners!.
In this case i cant really claim to understand all your concerns only those that seem more powerful than both of us. I am probly less powerful than you.
So i am being screwed by the system more than you any day.In many ways people like yourself are the system and represent it from my standpoint so why would we have the same interests!."

my response:

a disgruntled small enterprise owner? hardly .my dad was an hourly wage earner all his life.construction electrician and labor union member ,as i am. my wife and i have struggled to raise three children on one income so we could raise them and not leave it to someone else . we are in the process of buying our first home.

people like me are the system and represent it? yeah ozzie i made the taxes too high and sent the factories to china .get a grip.i guarantee you are NOT being screwed any more than me.

i still say you have a very anti-american slant to everything you post. why is that ? do you know,or have you ever known ,an american? you may find out you have more in common with us than you think . i am trying to help you become ozzie ,instead of ozzie the cynic.

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  #32  
Old 01-13-2005, 10:38 PM
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Ozziecynic Ozziecynic is offline
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Default Re: Marxism

Quote:
See that's the thing Ozz. You need to learn your history.
I know the history of modern capitalism quite well thanks. :-D

Quote:
Friedman can be tied to the Rockefeller's, Adam Smith ("the father of free trade") and the Austrian School of Economics.
You dont say!. :-D As i have posted numerous times in previous posts all over the forum.Just click on my profile and check out all my posts and you should be able to see a line of consistancy.
I know what I believe in!:-?
Here is a link you might be interested in!That tells facts about the Monetarists or Austrian school as they really are!.
http://members.tripod.com/~american_...nts.htm#empire
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  #33  
Old 01-13-2005, 11:14 PM
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Ozziecynic Ozziecynic is offline
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Default Re: Marxism

billiard wrote:
ozzie

.my response:

Quote(do you have a car oz? or a phone?how about a television or a computer? a soft bed , a place to live with doors and windows? you have lots of comforts many in this world do not have . and free market capitalism made those things so common you don't think of them as comforts ,made prosperity accessible to millions . the pursuit of profit,gain,wealth, this is not evil.to want a nicer house,or car or to take a nicer vacation with your family or travel to see the places you read about ...what is wrong with that? you probably want those things yourself .sounds like the old class warfare-socialism trick to me.Quote)

:-? They are indeed the the results of sciecne technology and hence materialism!.
But they are not necessarily the results of capitalism.Because a plenty of technology was also produced in the USSR under communism as plenty of innovations were also achieved in Nazi germany under Hitler.
Neither of these systems were ofcause free trade style capitalism but, look new technology was produced due to science and technology but it was not neo liberal capitalism!
So your point is flawed!.Technology is simply the creativity and resources of the citizen in any nation which makes technological innovation possible!.It is not due to the kind of economic system in existence.

Quote:
listen to me : what is called free trade today is NOT free. the capitalism you see today has been perverted and is NOT free market any longer .it is monopolistic .corrupt government(yours AND mine) has SCREWED it's people,betrayed us for twenty pieces of silver . just because you hear "free trade zone" from the talking heads doesn't mean the trade is truly free .
This U.S Government you speak of is indeed a monopoly i agree but it is a neo corporatist Monopoly. It seems in the case of the U.S and many other first world western a nations neo liberalism has simply morphed into neo corporatism, oh well so much for Free trade it looks like Hayek and Friedman gave us another form of Monopoly capitalism.
The proof of this is the extent to which the U.S government subsidises many of its own industries in international trade to the disadvantage of the competing nation.

Quote:
i am trying to help you become ozzie ,instead of ozzie the cynic.
I have no wish to be anything but a cynic.
A cynic or skeptic if you prefer is an honourable state of mind you dont usually tend to get caught up in ISMs or Ego trips like other supermen tyrants in history!. :-)
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  #34  
Old 01-14-2005, 01:12 AM
billiard billiard is offline
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Default Re: Marxism

ozzie the cynic

you don't want to hear anything that threatens your preconceived notions about america and americans,as i can see by which of my comments you responded to and which you did not respond to. you apparently don't wish to consider any "facts" other than the ones you walked in here with . your economic/political theories are flawed and they will continue to be because you are closed-minded. i won't bother responding to your posts again as it is an exercise in futility . i could try to explain things further, but it has become obvious to me you don't want to see what i am saying-you want to keep your opinions intact.
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  #35  
Old 01-14-2005, 09:55 PM
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Ozziecynic Ozziecynic is offline
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Default Re: Marxism

:-? :-o
Quote:
you don't want to hear anything that threatens your preconceived notions about america and americans,as i can see by which of my comments you responded to and which you did not respond to.
Good for me what makes you think i came here to listen to your gabber!
You are not even right about the anti americans part. I support Lyndon Larouche and his movement which is definately american!. I support and vote for its Australian Branch the cec Citizens Electoral council.So to say i am against all americans as in the average citizen is trash!.

But iam against proportion of Americans that are greedy and self centred and think the world and the rest of Humanity should evolve around them or should serve them as if they are some master race or culture.Usually these people advocate a market Liberal capitalist dogma or even more extreme market libertarianism e.g Ayn Rand or Rothbard!.

Quote:
you apparently don't wish to consider any "facts" other than the ones you walked in here with . your economic/political theories are flawed and they will continue to be because you are closed-minded. i won't bother responding to your posts again as it is an exercise in futility . i could try to explain things further, but it has become obvious to me you don't want to see what i am saying-you want to keep your opinions intact.
Look at this crap you spout. Ha ha.Your reasoning is as follows I do not agree with your bogus opinions so therefore you come to the conclusion that i do not accept fact what a moron you are!Your facts as you call them are just your opinions not facts!.Perhaps you should learn the difference between facts and mere opinion!

My economic/political opinions are flawed are they well lets wait and see if america survives another year of economc growth with this kind of system.Through out the 90s and into this century your economy has been up and down like a yo yo, but for the most part it has been down and has given the average U.S citizen a wider gap in their living standards between themselves and their Oligarchy.

One the main reasons most of you are whinging and posting in here as many of you constantly inform me!.I would be surprised if the U.s where to survive another year without a stock market melt down due to its own debt levels.

As for wanting me to agree with you get stuffed!
I didnt come here to agree with you or anyone else i came to state my opinions like anyone else.
I certainly did not come here to be converted to your southern white trash British Isrealite view of the rest of the world. If i did would hop on flight to Atlanta,georgia and join the kkk :lol:
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  #36  
Old 01-15-2005, 12:42 AM
billiard billiard is offline
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Default Re: Marxism

blah blah blah blah ... as if your line of crap is not merely your opinion .what you say is fact,anyone thinking something else, it's an opinion . i'm a moron ,am i?? that's typical- resort to name calling when you can't handle the other guy's reasoning. well,two can play that game. you're an asshole -that's what cynics become who WANT to be cynics.take your anti-american crap and flush yourself with it. you don't understand half of what you know,obviously educated beyond your ability to comprehend . your opinion is meaningless. you don't know jack shit about america . your country is far beyond ours on the socialist road . go back to school and pay attention this time.
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  #37  
Old 01-15-2005, 12:44 AM
billiard billiard is offline
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Default Re: Marxism

you want to get nasty oz? bring it .
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  #38  
Old 01-15-2005, 01:15 AM
billiard billiard is offline
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Default Re: Marxism

apparently ,oz, you aren't here for the same reason as the rest of us.we are here to share opinion,insight and hopefully LEARN something useful in our quest to understand what's going on .i have learned a number of things already, but YOU will not learn anything because you are not here to learn,but to impress us with your vast knowledge .you already know all there is to know about this stuff so why don't you go start your own site ? people like you annoy me ,unable to answer a person's reasoning, you resort to name calling and personal attacks that simply demonstrate your ignorance and inability to articulate your position .
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  #39  
Old 01-15-2005, 01:37 AM
billiard billiard is offline
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Default Re: Marxism

ozzzzzzzzzzzzz

you said in one of your posts that plenty of technology was produced in USSR ,thereby disproving what i said about free market capitalism being responsible for most of your daily comforts and luxuries. what a load of crap . they produced no technology, but STOLE it or copied it from what WE did here in the good ole USA . once again your theories are flawed . just thought i'd point that out while i'm on a roll .
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  #40  
Old 01-16-2005, 04:30 AM
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Ozziecynic Ozziecynic is offline
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Default tHREAD

:-D .k billard i was probly a bit harsh to start calling you insults so I apologise for that!
But really think this thread is over your head and frankly i dont wish to post in here any further because the quality of the responses has been poor generally.

Therefore as Thread Yours truly started i declare it CLOSED!!

Cheeerio! :-D
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