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  #11  
Old 04-11-2005, 08:07 AM
get_real get_real is offline
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Default Re: Despair is from Satan


James B. Walker
"The Philosophy of the Plan of Salvation"
from pages 26-28:

"Man is a religious being, he will worship...

Man by worshipping, becomes assimilated to the moral character of the object which he worships...

Without an exception, the character of every nation and tribe of the human history has been formed and modified, in a great degree, by the character attributed to their gods."

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  #12  
Old 04-11-2005, 08:56 AM
truebeliever truebeliever is offline
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Default Re: Despair is from Satan

Could'nt agree more GR.

I've been working on that V shape for you!
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  #13  
Old 04-12-2005, 02:23 AM
Draken Draken is offline
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Default Mircea Eliade

Hey, true and GR, maybe this guy is one for you:

<a href="http://www.geocities.com/integral_tradition/eliade.html">Mircea Eliade</a>

"A central theme in Eliade's works was that the archaic religions made sacred the world in a fashion no longer available, but through the understanding of the relationship between the sacred and the profane it is possible to begin to understand the world of archaic people. Eliade was a Christian and Jungian (you like Jung, don't you, true?;-)) - he met Carl Gustav Jung for the first time in 1950 - and his works, such as Myths, Dreams and Mysteries, and MYTH AND REALITY (1964), stress the relevance of ancient religions for contemporary man. However, Jung insisted that the images of archaic man are much closer to the European and American psyche than Eliade admitted.

"According to Eliade, shamanism is "one of the archaic techniques of ecstasy - at once mysticism, magic, and 'religion' in the broadest sense of the term". He wanted to restrict the term 'shaman' to those who went into trances and who would address the tribe through a spirit or would visit the spirit world and return. James Frazer described bluntly the evidence of superhuman powers in The Golden Bough (1890) as spurious, but Eliade himself was convinced that shamanism had a paranormal component. In Shamanism (1968) he argued that epics of ancient poets and certain kinds of fairy tales derive from ecstatic journeys and mystical flights. Throughout his life Eliade believed that there are things in life that cannot be explained."

...

"In Cosmos and History: The Myth of the Eternal Return (1954), a book which he was tempted to subtitle Introduction to a Philosophy of History, Eliade distinguishes between religious and non-religious humanity on the basis of the perception of time as heterogenous and homogenous respectively. This distinction will be immediately familiar to students of Henri Bergson as an element of that philosopher's analysis of time and space. Eliade contends that the perception of time as an homogenous, linear, and unrepeatable medium is a peculiarity of modern and non-religious humanity. Archaic or religious humanity (homo religiosus), in comparison, perceives time as heterogenous; that is, as divided between profane time (linear), and sacred time (cyclical and reactualizable). By means of myths and rituals which give access to this sacred time religious humanity protects itself against the 'terror of history', a condition of helplessness before the absolute data of historical time, a form of existential anxiety. In the very process of establishing this distinction, however, Eliade undermines it, insisting that non-religious humanity in any pure sense is a very rare phenomenon. Myth and illud tempus are still operative, albeit concealed, in the world of modern humanity and Eliade clearly regards the attempt to restrict real time to linear historical time as finally self-contradictory. He squarely sets himself against the historicism of Hegel."
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  #14  
Old 04-12-2005, 03:07 AM
truebeliever truebeliever is offline
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Default Re: Mircea Eliade

If they were a Jungian then that puts me off already.

Even Jung himself wrote in relation to the worship of him and his work..."if all i have done is create another 'ism' then i have failed miserably".

Just a note...have noticed alot of absoloute crap getting around the net on Jung. Including Jung was a Mason! Jung was a DEEPLY flawed man but a sincere truth seeker.

Will have a look.
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  #15  
Old 04-12-2005, 03:08 AM
Draken Draken is offline
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Default Re: Mircea Eliade

I assure you, Eliade is a good man!
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  #16  
Old 04-12-2005, 03:21 PM
Saturnino Saturnino is offline
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Default Re: Mircea Eliade

I would be careful with anything associated with Jung, a man who took his clues from a spirit guide. It is unbelievable that his occult teachings are accepted by the psychological community as science.
I can't understand neither how anyone can be a Christian Jungian. That's an oxymoron.
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  #17  
Old 04-12-2005, 07:03 PM
truebeliever truebeliever is offline
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Default Re: Mircea Eliade

You have to take his work in it's totality SAT.

True, Jung is'nt for everyone and unfortunately there tends to be a cult around him.

I've been through the Jung worship stage...however I have been enriched greatly by his work but I had a good mentor keeping my feet on the ground.

He changed alot in his later years.

I beleive he was a sincere truth seeker. Though, like many, deeply flawed in a dozen ways with alot of what is easy to say, mistakes around him...some down right 'unethical' in the extreme.

However, I have heard so many criticisms by people who have never read him.

His work is extremely threatening to the church though ironically Jungs first option with someone in distress was to get them straight back into their original religious mileiu.

He constantly warned of Westerners taking on Eastern philosophies...and the theosophical society despises him.

Any way...this site gives an honest critique of his work. And yes it needs critiquing.

http://www.christiancounselling.on.ca/essays_Carl_Jung's_eastern_&_occult_bias_in_interp reting_archetypes_&_the_psyche.htm

Will get around to Ileade today Drak.
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  #18  
Old 04-13-2005, 02:19 AM
Draken Draken is offline
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Default Re: Mircea Eliade

I realize my mistake of quoting Eliade was a Jungian. Eliade was Eliade. Period. He was in constant contact with one of my favourite writers, Julius Evola.
I have to say I haven't read anything complete of his, only parts and excerpts; I'll start on one of his main works soon, "Shamanism".

Maybe this quote is more adequate:

"Finally religion, systematically understood as the apprehension of relative worth conferred through non-historical realities (including all abstract and imaginary entities) but revealed and confirmed through historical phenomena is seen [by Eliade] as a unifying human universal."

Unfortunately I haven't been able to find anything of Eliade's writing on the net so far - I haven't been looking that much. I'll try to find something.
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  #19  
Old 04-13-2005, 02:56 AM
truebeliever truebeliever is offline
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Default Re: Mircea Eliade

Gawd! Cant these people write in plain English?

Well, i've heard it all before. Sure, i agree, we need a more Eastern 'cyclical' as opposed to linear Western thinking style.

We certainly need to get back to nature in some form...get the hands in the dirt.

We need a more direct relationship with the divine...at the moment repeating the same crap and singing a few songs on the weekend is not enough. Church as social club, safe place...but heaven forbid any revelation or experience of the divine!

No, you'd be off to the loony bin. The preist would be pissed off you have a more direct line and then of course you would have a REAL responsibility to the experience and to your community in general. Of course no average Christian wants that! Just staying sheep like will suffice...God will take care of it all...la la la...heaven forbid one should ACT.

As if God gave the human race two arms and legs plus a mouth and all we have to do is lie around and wait for the end!

No wonder Jung wanted a bomb under the Church!

My only concern with this line of thought (back to nature, tribal/community existence, none or limited ownership) is that it is being usurped by the NWO...this is EXACTLY what they want. Easily manageable peasants quietly working the land, taking public transport, owning nothing and doing what they're told.

A sort of Neo-Pagan existence.

Though i like the idea, i hope people are careful and do not throw out Christianity which is the appropriate religious experience for a modern Westerner.

Perhaps those with more knowledge of the bible can help? Has Christianity failed somewhat in it's neglect of the Earth? Of Mother Nature? Is this the problem? If anyone can give me passages from the bible dealing with Mother Nature...

Need more stuff on Eliade Drak.
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  #20  
Old 04-13-2005, 03:29 AM
Draken Draken is offline
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Default Re: Mircea Eliade

<a href="http://www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&d=5926880">IMAGES AND SYMBOLS: Studies in Religious Symbolism
MIRCEA ELIADE</a>

<a href="http://www.questia.com/library/religion/theology/theologians/mircea-eliade.jsp">More books by Eliade.</a>

<a href="http://www.questia.com/">Check out this site, it's an online library.</a>
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