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  #21  
Old 04-13-2005, 04:22 AM
truebeliever truebeliever is offline
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Default Re: Mircea Eliade


"Mircea Eliade's Vision for a New Humanism"...Bahhhh
bahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, humbug!

I know you're George Soros Drak!

Time to come out! Cant stay in their forever you Pagan! :-P

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  #22  
Old 04-13-2005, 04:41 AM
Draken Draken is offline
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Default Re: Mircea Eliade

Have you not seen my avatar and signature? ;-)

I agree that title put me off too, actually.

Humanism is putting Man above God.
I don't think those are his own words though; it looks like someone else said that about him, in which case any dimwit unifarsity theoretician could've said that.

Anyway, I reserve myself until I've read that Shamanism book.
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  #23  
Old 04-13-2005, 06:11 AM
truebeliever truebeliever is offline
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Default Re: Mircea Eliade

Well yes, the eagle, sword and sun are all symobols for the masculine intellect and superior insight.

Whats the avatar? A feminine principal of some kind?

I've just worked out how to put my avatar up...the mighty David Brent...another symbol for the mighty masculine principal...or idiot masculine principal.

I love "The Office". It speaks so well to me of the current crop of managers out there attempting to run the planet.

Useless paper shufflers.
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  #24  
Old 04-13-2005, 07:43 AM
Saturnino Saturnino is offline
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Default Re: Mircea Eliade

Archetypes are in fact cultural phenomena, not spiritual or methaphysical entities. Myths are also reflections of men`s experiences and aspirations, but there are no automatic spiritual meaning about them. The mistake of Jung and Joseph Campbell is to try to make more of them that what they represent. They turned them into a religion.
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  #25  
Old 04-13-2005, 07:53 AM
Saturnino Saturnino is offline
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Default Re: The real conspiracy is "idol-worship"

Ahmad,

Someone asked me why I thought that you were a Muslim. Well, you presented yourself as one. Now you condemn Muslims. It is very confusing. What do you believe, after all ?

1) A simple question: you seem to be so sure about the need to save yourself. Where do you get this revelation ? Did you figure it out by yourself? Did you have a dream or a vision ? How can you be so sure about it?

I was shown Jesus to be the way to God by the Bible and the testimony of millions. What about your doctrine? Where did it come from?

Why do you avoid answering my question about how much of a sinner you are or how holy you have to be to be saved? Face it, Ahmad, you will never get what it takes by yourself. But it is a good thing you try, it makes you a better citizen here on this earth.

2) For the 100th time:

- God requires toal holiness that can only be accomplished by the substitute sacrifice of Jesus. When you die, it is Jesus` holiness that God sees in you, and because of that you are declared righteous and allowed to Heaven.

- No, this is no excuse for sinning. On the contrary, after receiving Jesus the believer must try harder than ever to be holy and good. But for gratitute, not to earn salvation.

Come on, Ahmad, don`t try to tell me that my faith leads me away from holiness. On the contrary, because of the Holy Spirit, it is easier for the Christian to abstain fromm sin than it is for you.
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  #26  
Old 04-13-2005, 08:16 AM
truebeliever truebeliever is offline
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Default Re: Mircea Eliade

Yes, but SAT, they must have a grounding. They must have a basis somewhere. They cannot arise from nothing?

The point of Jungs work on archetypes was that patterns of behaviour, as seen through myths and stories from all around the world have a common thread.

True, a simple theory has been turned into a Religion by some. I dont beleive that was Jungs intention.

Alot of people use the theory of archetypes as an attempt at making the miracle and endless variety of human behaviour and experience into a 'nothing but'. Complete, nihlistic, reductionist thinking.

I believe everyone can benefit from drawing out the various behaviour patterns they have present in themselves and naming them like you name the Greek Pantheon. However, after a time, once you have become comfortable with yourself and have gained an element of self knowledge you can relax and be you...it's at that point, the Christian faith came for me. For some reason the Christian faith was the beginning and the final end for me.

Perhaps it's very different for other people. I think alot of people never move beyond disentangling themselves from themselves and get stuck in all this psychological theory.

During this time alot of arrogance and hubris comes up and out goes the baby with the bathwater.
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  #27  
Old 04-13-2005, 12:39 PM
Ahmad Ahmad is offline
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Default Re: Mircea Eliade

Quote:
What do you believe, after all ?
We, the Submitters believe in all the scriptures sent down from God, we believe in all the messengers and prophets, we do not revere any other creature beside God, to Him alone we are submitters.


Quote:
you seem to be so sure about the need to save yourself. Where do you get this revelation ? Did you figure it out by yourself? Did you have a dream or a vision ? How can you be so sure about it?
From the final proven testament, Quran. The book that confirms and supercedes all the previous scriptures.


Quote:
I was shown Jesus to be the way to God by the Bible and the testimony of millions. What about your doctrine? Where did it come from?

Submission is a natural instinct in all of us, the only way to God, it is the need to depend, rely on and put our trust in the Creator alone, and not in the creatures. We believe that God is closer to us than our jugular veins, there are no barriers, nor middle men inbetween. And because God is the Most Merciful, He sent us a final message by Muhammad to remind us of this natural instinct.

[30:30] Therefore, you shall devote yourself to the religion of strict monotheism. Such is the natural instinct placed into the people by GOD. Such creation of GOD will never change. This is the perfect religion, but most people do not know.


Quote:
Why do you avoid answering my question about how much of a sinner you are or how holy you have to be to be saved? Face it, Ahmad, you will never get what it takes by yourself. But it is a good thing you try, it makes you a better citizen here on this earth.
Ofcourse i do sin!, but God promised that all the minor offenses will be forgiven if we are sincere enough in seeking His forgivness, through righteous work and resisting our sinful lusts. A sin doesn't stick like a Glue! it can be washed clean. As long as we are not on the death bed, every minute we can start anew, allover again, however God knows our inner most intentions, he knows who insists on sinning knowingly and who is in a constant inner battle with the devil and his ego.It is all up to God to open the door of forgivness, however it is we who have to go knock on the door!.

You have to prove the strength of your faith in God alone, by leading a righteous life and passing the daily tests as much as you can, God never burdens any soul beyond its means, He is the Most Merciful.

Quote:
- God requires toal holiness that can only be accomplished by the substitute sacrifice of Jesus. When you die, it is Jesus` holiness that God sees in you, and because of that you are declared righteous and allowed to Heaven.

This is a gross lie propagated by Satan, eventhough we all have to aspire to be 100% pure, it is impossible to achieve, as nobody is perfect, we are all fallible including Jesus, the test is difficult but it's not impossible, it is the continous struggle with Satan's suggestions that earns you credit, the process itself earns you salvation.

It is none but Satan who want to convince us that we cannot do it on our own, he will always offer someone else to take the responsbility away from us, you should wake up and realize that it is a big lie, it is YOU who are responsible of your fate. Reclaim your reponsbility, Satan has stolen it from you!.

Every individual is responsible for his own sins, Jesus on the Judgment day will denounce all his worshipers and will declare that he never taught his followers any of these blasphemies.


The Dead Messengers Totally Unaware

[5:109] The day will come when GOD will summon the messengers and ask them, "How was the response to you?" They will say, "We have no knowledge. You are the Knower of all secrets."

[5:110] GOD will say, "O Jesus, son of Mary, remember My blessings upon you and your mother. I supported you with the Holy Spirit, to enable you to speak to the people from the crib, as well as an adult. I taught you the scripture, wisdom, the Torah, and the Gospel. Recall that you created from clay the shape of a bird by My leave, then blew into it, and it became a live bird by My leave. You healed the blind and the leprous by My leave, and revived the dead by My leave. Recall that I protected you from the Children of Israel who wanted to hurt you, despite the profound miracles you had shown them. The disbelievers among them said, `This is obviously magic.'

[5:111] "Recall that I inspired the disciples: `You shall believe in Me and My messenger.' They said, `We have believed, and bear witness that we are submitters.' "

The Feast

[5:112] Recall that the disciples said, "O Jesus, son of Mary, can your Lord send down to us a feast from the sky?" He said, "You should reverence GOD, if you are believers."

[5:113] They said, "We wish to eat from it, and to reassure our hearts, and to know for sure that you have told us the truth. We will serve as witnesses thereof."

Greater Miracles Bring Greater Responsibility*

[5:114] Said Jesus, the son of Mary, "Our god, our Lord, send down to us a feast from the sky. Let it bring plenty for each and every one of us, and a sign from You. Provide for us; You are the best Provider."
Footnote

[5:115] GOD said, "I am sending it down. Anyone among you who disbelieves after this, I will punish him as I never punished anyone else."*
Footnote

On The Day Of Resurrection

[5:116] GOD will say, "O Jesus, son of Mary,* did you say to the people, `Make me and my mother idols beside GOD?' " He will say, "Be You glorified. I could not utter what was not right. Had I said it, You already would have known it. You know my thoughts, and I do not know Your thoughts. You know all the secrets.
Footnote

[5:117] "I told them only what You commanded me to say, that: `You shall worship GOD, my Lord and your Lord.' I was a witness among them for as long as I lived with them. When You terminated my life on earth, You became the Watcher over them. You witness all things.

[5:118] "If You punish them, they are Your constituents. If You forgive them, You are the Almighty, Most Wise."

[5:119] GOD will proclaim, "This is a day when the truthful will be saved by their truthfulness." They have deserved gardens with flowing streams. They abide therein forever. GOD is pleased with them, and they are pleased with Him. This is the greatest triumph.

[5:120] To GOD belongs the sovereignty of the heavens and the earth, and everything in them, and He is Omnipotent.

*5:116 It is noteworthy that the Quran consistently calls Jesus "son of Mary" and the Bible calls him "son of man". God knew that some will blaspheme and call him "son of God"! Rashad Khalifa



Quote:
- No, this is no excuse for sinning. On the contrary, after receiving Jesus the believer must try harder than ever to be holy and good. But for gratitute, not to earn salvation.

What is wrong with your logic? do we take a test to pass it, or we pass it first and then take it for luxury!. If i am sure that i have already been redeemed, why would i work hard or resist my sinfull lusts anymore!!

The only way i know of to really follow Jesus is to follow the teachings God sent us through him.

Quote:
Come on, Ahmad, don`t try to tell me that my faith leads me away from holiness.

Yes, your faith is leading you straight to hell, believe it or not. All the scriptures say that those who idolize any creature beside God has a reserved seat in the inferno, however you still have a chance to repent and purify yourself from the shackles of idol-worship, can't you observe God alone?



[4:171] O people of the scripture, do not transgress the limits of your religion, and do not say about GOD except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was a messenger of GOD, and His word that He had sent to Mary, and a revelation from Him. Therefore, you shall believe in GOD and His messengers. You shall not say, "Trinity." You shall refrain from this for your own good. GOD is only one god. Be He glorified; He is much too glorious to have a son. To Him belongs everything in the heavens and everything on earth. GOD suffices as Lord and Master.
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[3:19] The only religion approved by GOD is \"Submission.\"...
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  #28  
Old 04-13-2005, 04:04 PM
Saturnino Saturnino is offline
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Default Re: Mircea Eliade

Ahmad,

You are a Muslim, or a Mohamedian, since your source of beliefs come from Mohamed. Therefore, the only proof you have of your beliefs is the testimony of a tribal chief who killed and cheated, against the testimony of the sinless Jesus. I still choose Jesus. Why Mohamed's visions would supersede the New Testament ? Because he had a vision ? I choose not to believe Mohamed. I believe Jesus is God, I believe in the Trinity. I believe worshipping Jesus is worshipping God.

Of course you classify all your sins as MINOR. How do you know that they are small ? The Bible tells us that a single MINOR sin is enough to separate us from God. You are up to a big surprise if you think your efforts are enough to make you acceptable to God. And I don`t dispute that you try hard and sincerely, but it will never be enough. What a burden you must carry !

It is interesting that you believe that forgiveness is a free pass to sin. It is not, and I am sure that you understood that very well.

Your problem is with Jesus and His offer of forgiveness, which you reject. OK. You are absolutely free not to acceppt Him as Savior, but I would really appreciate if you stopped blaming Christianity for being an excuse to sin. You know that the New Testament doesn`t say that (Paul says explicitly in the book of Romans that grace is not an excuse for sinning) and serious Christians don`t think that they are free to sin. It is really unfair if you keep blaming us.

Even though I think Muslims will not be saved, I reckon that serious Muslims may be sincerily trying to be good in the way they know best, so it would be fine if you could return me (and all Christians) this courtesy.
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  #29  
Old 04-14-2005, 02:18 AM
Ahmad Ahmad is offline
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Default Re: Mircea Eliade

Peace,

Muhamedians ("Muslims") are those who worship and revere Muhammad besides God, same like the Christians who worship the christ instead of God.

As for the Submitters, they worship GOD ALONE.

you asked why would Quran supersede the bible, because God said so,

[5:48] Then we revealed to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming previous scriptures, and superseding them. You shall rule among them in accordance with GOD's revelations, and do not follow their wishes if they differ from the truth that came to you. For each of you, we have decreed laws and different rites. Had GOD willed, He could have made you one congregation. But He thus puts you to the test through the revelations He has given each of you. You shall compete in righteousness. To GOD is your final destiny - all of you - then He will inform you of everything you had disputed.


And we have a physical incontrovertible proof that only God is god, and that every letter in Quran is devinely authored, do you have a proof that Jesus is God?

www.usn2161.net/19miracle.html
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  #30  
Old 04-14-2005, 03:29 AM
Draken Draken is offline
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Default Re: Mircea Eliade

Quote:
Quran: Had GOD willed, He could have made you one congregation.
But He didn't, did He, Ahmad?

Every people got their Revelation in the form of the religion they adhere to. God is the source of all the manifested world religions, i.e. Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Christianity and Islam. If God would've wanted everyone to have the same religion He would've only given us ONE RELIGION, like the Quran says.

If people of different religions realized that following the religion they were specifically given by God, they are ACTUALLY IN SPIRITUAL UNITY with the multiplicity of other God-given religions. Then there would be NO NEED for ONE religion, because everyone would realize their UNITY WITH GOD, and conversely with eachother.

A quote from a <a href="http://www.geocities.com/integral_tradition/schuongue.html">lecture by Martin Lings on Schuon</a>:

"He once said to me: "If there was a religion which I did not love, I would not rest until I loved it." For him the religions were among the great signs of God, each one to be marveled at, and he demanded this attitude from his disciples insofar as they were capable of it."(My emphasis./Draken)

This "one religion for all" dogma you're preaching is defective, Ahmad.
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