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  #71  
Old 11-18-2009, 04:31 PM
TrutherD TrutherD is offline
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Default Re: Contrails cannot form into clouds (proof!)


Excellent, stompk. I would suggest maybe making two copies, one as it came originally and one with just the good stuff, but that might take a lot of nickels... and there could be some personal information you'd prefer to remove. You need to find someone with a scanner or visit the local office supply store to get a bulk rate. Thanks for your great work. Chemtrails are being exposed more and more every day thanks to people like you who devote their time and money to exposing the truth.

The middle-class are the revolutionaries here. People in Africa starving and suffering from inexpensive-to-cure disease, those who have children they struggle to feed and care for, those who can't find work and those who have lost their homes in the engineered housing crash simply do not have the resources to spread this information and expose the secret groups that cause all of our problems. If anyone has any time or money to volunteer, exposing chemtrails and the NWO behind them is the most noble and most important cause of all. They cause the wars. They cause the hunger. They cause the economic booms and busts and profit from them. They charge our government interest to create our own money. It is impossible to pay it back because that money does not exist! The end result is enslavement! All the money in the hands of a few. They rig stock markets and profit from poor health care, pandemics and terrorist attacks (which they create!). They allow and encourage toxins in our food and water. They manipulate our minds through the media causing us to be passive, superficial, shallow, depressed, anxious, unquestioning and resistant to truth no matter how much evidence is presented. They condition us subliminally to accept big changes and horrendous events. (This technique is proven to completely bypass reason, logic and reaction.) They are above the law, operating by stealth through others, surrounded in red tape, untouchable through any mainstream channel (they own them all and buy up local publications when they operate). They cause the weather, purposely devastating parts of the world in attempts to cull the population, destroy self-sustainable farming and force us into more manageable bigger cities. They perform biological experiments and attacks on us whenever they feel like it with chemtrails. Hell, they even bounce artificial ULF/ELF energy off the atmosphere to manipulate huge areas using frequencies. (This activity can be detected!) They've gone way too far and do not deserve to enslave the world.

It's time to wake up, people! Everybody needs to be aware of this. Humanity needs you to make an effort to spread this information. Your country needs you to stop them from destroying it. Freedom needs you to stop innocent people from being abused. We have to take a stand or suffer the consequence of a scientific totalitarian dictatorship.

You've got to become informed and fearless. You've got to get MAD. YELL it out the window: I'M MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!


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Last edited by TrutherD : 11-18-2009 at 09:14 PM.
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  #72  
Old 11-18-2009, 09:41 PM
TrutherD TrutherD is offline
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Default Re: Contrails cannot form into clouds (proof!)

Check out this Trail Research Report
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  #73  
Old 11-19-2009, 04:04 AM
albie albie is offline
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Default Re: Contrails cannot form into clouds (proof!)

Still waiting for my questions to be answered.

1 Prove there isn't enough particle material in jet exhaust to form vapor trails.

2 Why are you using the Appleman chart when you admit it is inaccurate?

And what those documents prove I do not know. No one is saying spraying chemicals isn't possible. We are saying you have no evidence that vapor trails ARE chemtrails.

Last edited by albie : 11-19-2009 at 04:07 AM.
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  #74  
Old 11-19-2009, 04:09 AM
albie albie is offline
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Default Re: Contrails cannot form into clouds (proof!)

I suppose the final evidence of your view is that you post your theories on a conspiracy site and not a debunking site. Presumably you are too frightened to. Better to preach to people like trutherd who are basically cheerleaders for bs.

TrutherD = Truth herd. HERD. Hidden words in your name, truther? must be an agent.
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  #75  
Old 11-19-2009, 07:53 AM
JazzRoc JazzRoc is offline
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Default Re: Contrails cannot form into clouds (proof!)

stompk:
"Now I am going to debunk the scientists that claim the contrails forming into clouds and gray haze above your heads is normal, jet exhaust
polluting our atmosphere by using the Appleman Chart."
Not a good idea. It's an old rule of thumb which predicts negatives reliably but almost never predicts positives - OK for pilots who wish to avoid making persistent contrails, but USELESS for predicting them.

"Atmospheric Soundings - on the map, click on the city nearest you, and it will give you the most recent sounding of the atmosphere."
Trouble is, such atmospheric soundings are notoriously unreliable. The barometric ports on the instruments ICE UP, which distorts the readings with the local presence of the solid phase of water which simply won't go away easily. You can't HEAT the port without ruining the function. The ONLY process that works reliably is LASER INTERFEROMETRY which isn't balloon-portable.

(Quoting) "If the atmosphere were warmer than the temperature indicated by the 100% line, a contrail could not form even if the relative humidity of the atmosphere were 100 percent"
This simply ISN'T TRUE. Contrails CAN form in warmer conditions, by a different mechanism. They are known as "AERODYNAMIC CONTRAILS" and may be distinguished by the odd sight of the WING forming a trail while the engines DON'T. It is also possible to see BOTH types at the same time, although this is frequently a more transitory event caused by interlayer transition. I say "interlayer" because the stratosphere, which is where MOST of these events take place, is LAYERED.

"on a clear day, it's very, very unlikely that a contrail would form, let alone persist"
Is TOTALLY wrong. The stratosphere, no matter how wet it is, is clear ALL THE TIME. Cirrus (ice crystal) clouds that may populate it somewhat, are ALWAYS in discrete thin layers of their own, which are (obviously) SATURATED. Otherwise they would sublime into water vapor, wouldn't they?

"And I've already shown that NASA said it is impossible for clouds to form from contrails"
No you have NOT. In fact I can produce a NASA research paper (one of MANY, by the way) which DEMONSTRATES that contrails ARE cirrus clouds.

"None of the soundings show RHI > 72%, despite the fact that the PIT rawinsonde must have passed through contrail A on its way to the stratosphere. To support a persistent contrail, the maximum PIT RHI from the sonde would need to be increased by 35% or more."
Is an interesting quote which makes my point that humidity instrumentation works very badly.

"Please, if I have made a mistake in my calculations and charts, could you show me the data that supports your claim otherwise. All I want is the truth. Show me the numbers to support persistent contrail formation."
Hmm. Cleft stick. Inaccurate instrumentation doesn't help me either.
The best I can do is to ask that you read and understand a relevant link I when I give it you very carefully. It provides VERY ACCURATE DATA and CONCLUSIVE FINDINGS which prove your proposition to be ENTIRELY WRONG.
Before I do, I must tell you that you have already MISSED TWO OPPORTUNITIES to read this for yourself.

"Contrail formation has nothing to do with cold, but humidity, and pressure."
Wrong again. It has ONLY to do with COLD and HUMIDITY, and NOTHING at all to do with pressure. Contrails form at SEA LEVEL at the poles.

"It's the same concept as clouds forming around mountain ranges. It's because the air is pushed up, when it flows over the mountain. The air is pressurized, creating a denser amount of moisture. That's why it snows in the mountains, not because of temp."
Entirely WRONG. When air rises, even an inch, its pressure FALLS. As soon as the pressure of ANY GAS is reduced, its temperature DROPS. You MUST have noticed the OPPOSITE effect when you pumped up a bicycle tyre, surely? What you appear to know nothing about is ADIABATIC LAPSE RATE. Look it up.

"The temps are dropped because the air moves faster over the mountains. Wind chill factor. That's why temperature inversions are possible, meaning it's warmer at the top of the mountain than in the valleys. Think about it. The top of the mountain is actually closer to the sun. It's the winds, that keep it colder, allowing the snow to stick around longer."
This is WRONG from beginning to end. So wrong that I'm going to have to leave it alone. Didn't you do Physics at school?

"The short lived contrails are Liquid CO2 for supercooling the atmosphere."
Liquid CO2 doesn't exist at all until its pressure is RAISED to 75 psi (5.1 atmospheres). Haven't you seen DRY ICE? Didn't you notice it didn't melt, but SUBLIMED from SOLID to GAS?
And, by the way, this is EXACTLY the way contrail or cirrus ICE behaves at stratospheric temperatures and pressures. There is NEVER any liquid water in the stratosphere - with the exception of the phenomenon of SUPERCOOLING (OF WATER - NOT THE ATMOSPHERE), which is way, way over your head at this stage. We might deal with that at a later date.

"The long lived contrails are a concoction of silver-iodide, ammonia, urea, etc"
Laughable.
Silver iodide is dispersed as a SMOKE from light aircraft beneath cumulus clouds at 5000 feet to seed water droplets.
Ammonia would BURN in the turbofan to NITROGEN and WATER.
Urea is a possible - it might be discharged from the toilet sump as it's a constituent of pee.

"The main reason is weather modification, the secondary being a sickening of the people. But, they do have a solution that will kill, which is being tested in the Ukraine right now."
Evidence, please.

"If you can see your breath at 20f, why does the Appleman Chart say it needs to be at least -45f?"
When you see your breath at 20 F, you are seeing droplets of condensed water. The Appleman chart doesn't say what you say it says.

"It's not the moisture in your breath, it's CO2."
See my notes above. You're entirely wrong here. Consistently!

"Patrick Minnis is a shill."
Tsk, tsk.
DR. PATRICK MINNIS, Climate Sciences Branch, NASA Langley Research Center, Mail Stop 420, Hampton, VA 23681.
Born in Shawnee, Oklahoma. Raised in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma graduating from Casady School in 1968.
1991 – Ph.D., University of Utah, Salt Lake City, UT, Meteorology 1978 – M.S., Colorado State University, Ft. Collins, CO, Atmospheric Science 1972 – B.E., Vanderbilt University, Nashville, TN, Materials Science & Metallurgical
Engineering, Senior Research Scientist, NASA Langley Research Center Science Directorate,
1981-1986, Research Scientist, NASA Langley Research Center Materials Application and Technology Division,
1977-1981, Research Engineer, Kentron International,
1972-1975, Product Engineer, Ferro Fiberglass.


"Um, did you do any research before you posted, or are you just posting what is written in your government memo?"
"No, I am talking about Chemtrails. You, are protecting you beloved government. Pathetic fool."
"You'll still get the government funded morons posting "don't worry, it's just a binary biological warfare agent, designed to take down the immune system, uh, I mean, it's just water vapor, move along". Hell has plenty of room boys."

THAT is "trolling".

"'Modification of cirrus clouds to reduce global warming' - Translation. They have been using the airline industry for a long time."
Funny, I though I saw the word "potential". Now, to me, that suggests it's an IDEA. How can you possibly construe an idea as ACTION? If "they" were actually doing it, WHY would ANYONE propose it? It's like suggesting we should use things called "cars" on things called "roads"!

"Seeder - Feeder Mechanism during the February 12, 2001"
Was an account of a natural event. Did it confuse you into believing it was man-made?

"Show me an older picture of a civilian aircraft leaving "contrails". The picture you showed is a WWII spraying operation."
I agree with ALBERD here. They are B17 Flying Fortresses on their way to bombing Northern Germany in 1943. The photograph is well-documented with accounts of the actual raid and many accompanying photographs.
It's totally ridiculous to suggest these BOMBERS are spraying mosquitos at ZERO feet.

"Document includes section on barium flouride, hydrogen cyanide, and lithium phosphate."
But what is the document? It appears to be a chemical theory examination with laboratory work. Not some "spraying campaign". It is too incomplete to have much relevance.
It is also the earliest known use of the word "chemtrail" I have seen, and thus may not have had the current connotation.
Is the first page part of the rest?
The materials mentioned cannot pass THROUGH turbofans without damaging them.

Your proposition is completely wrong. I should explain that science BEGINS with a set of fundamental principles which must be followed if you wish to remain in the realm of science.
The first principle you must follow is that of NOT bringing personal bias and preconceptions to the table. You've broken that, and your science is therefore broken.
That will do for now. Read this. I know it will exceed your understanding, but everyone needs to make a humble start when they are ignorant of a subject. Ask, and I shall try to answer.

“Contrails to Cirrus—Morphology, Microphysics, and Radiative Properties”:
http://www-pm.larc.nasa.gov/sass/pub...s_JAMC2006.pdf

And here's some further reading:

“Contrail Formation and Persistence”
contrail.html
“Long lasting contrails like the ones observed usually occur in parts of the sky that have preexisting patches of cirrus clouds. Since the cirrus clouds are formed of ice crystals like the contrails, cirrus clouds in a region of the sky suggests supersaturation with respect to ice and sufficient heterogeneous nuclei for ice crystals to form. GOES-8 satellite photographs taken at approximately at the same time as the contrails were present show significant cirrus clouds around the Norman area providing the condition necessary for contrail persistence.”

S J Moss (1999). The Testing and Verification of Contrail Forecasts using Pilot Observations from Aircraft. Meteorological Applications, 6 , pp 193-200
The testing and verification of contrail forecasts using pilot observations from
“Recent research has shown that old forecasting techniques may not be wholly applicable to modern aircraft that now use more efficient engines. In order to compare the performance of both the old and new forecasting techniques a validation trial was carried out over a nine-month period in which RAF pilots reported when and where contrails did and did not occur.”

Wakes of War: Contrails and the Rise of Air Power, 1918-1945 Part II—The Air War over Europe, 1939-1945
Wakes of war: contrails and the rise of air power, 1918-1945 Part IIĀ—the air war over Europe, 1939-1945 | Air Power History | Find Articles at BNET
“It is easy to see that, if the air is so cold that it cannot hold much water as vapor, the water in the exhaust may be sufficient, when added to the moisture already in the atmosphere, to raise the humidity in the turbulent wake to or beyond the saturation value. If this condition exists, some of the water vapor will condense and a visible trail will form.”

A Laboratory Study of Contrails
http://ams.allenpress.com/archive/15...9-15-2-149.pdf
“The existence of supercooled water at temperatures significantly colder than -40C is not a generally-accepted fact, but has been suspected by theorists for some time. Fig. 5 demonstrates that such supercooling of contrail condensate, whatever its purity, is possible.”

Contrail Observations over Southern and Eastern Asia in NOAA/AVHRR Data and Comparisons to Contrail Simulations in a GCM

Contrail Observations over Southern and Eastern Asia in NOAA/AVHRR Data and Comparisons to Contrail Simulations in a GCM - International Journal of Remote Sensing

“400 NOAA-14 satellite scenes from four months of the year 1998 were analysed. Both regions show sufficient air traffic to produce an observable amount of contrails. Thus we are able to measure for the first time contrail frequencies in the tropics and compare it to a nearby mid latitudinal region. The annual average of the daily mean contrail cloud coverage is 0.13% for the Thailand region and about 0.25% for the Japan region. For both regions the contrail cover is largest during spring. The daily cycle shows surprisingly high contrail coverage during night in spite of lower air traffic densities during night time.”

Proceedings of the Aircraft Research Association
http://www.greenerbydesign.org.uk/re..._Challenge.pdf
“Persistent contrails, which in time degenerate into cirrus cloud, only form in air which is saturated with respect to ice and the conditions for their formation and persistence are reasonably well understood. There’s no prospect of a technological fix for that. If you fly through an ice-saturated region in the atmosphere, you’ll produce a persistent contrail.”

EFFECTS OF AIRCRAFT WAKE DYNAMICS ON CONTRAIL DEVELOPMENT
Atmospheric Turbulence Research at WVU
CONCLUSIONS
1. Generally contrail ice in near equilibrium with ice mass proportional to contrail volume (except for the rapidly falling vortices early, and precipitation regions later).
2. Contrail volume largely determined by vortex dynamics (until ~ 4 min.) and Brunt-Vaisala oscillations (until ~ 20 min.).
3. Passive tracer, ice mass and ice number density distributions differ (strong dependence on RH ice ).
4. Heating due to adiabatic compression of falling vortex system can lead to significant ice crystal number depletion. (depending on RH ice , EI ice# , aircraft type).
5. Strong species fluctuations can have a significant impact on measured chemistry [e.g. HO2 /OH] in the aircraft wake.


JazzRoc versus “Chemtrails”

Contrail Science - Chemtrail Pseudoscience

BOTH these sites refer to the "Contrails to Cirrus" paper in their side menus, and BOTH have been offered you as links on this thread... they say "There's NONE so blind as those that don't wish to see"...

Last edited by JazzRoc : 11-19-2009 at 10:18 AM.
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  #76  
Old 11-19-2009, 08:08 AM
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stompk stompk is offline
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Default Re: Contrails cannot form into clouds (proof!)

Wow, JazzRoc, a government funded shill, signed up just to post in this thread.

Must be getting too much attention, eh. What a putz.
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  #77  
Old 11-19-2009, 09:17 AM
Alferd Alferd is offline
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Default Re: Contrails cannot form into clouds (proof!)

Stompk, you are going to have to come up with a better response than that if you want this two-bit ATS knockoff site to grow.
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  #78  
Old 11-19-2009, 11:37 AM
TrutherD TrutherD is offline
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Default Re: Contrails cannot form into clouds (proof!)

We ROCK, stompk! Look at all the attention we are getting. It's good, because every page we argue with the trolls is one more page for the search engines!

Quote:
Originally Posted by albie
1 Prove there isn't enough particle material in jet exhaust to form vapor trails.
Prove there is. NASA says jet exhaust can't form a cloud at all. Why don't you take it up with them?
Quote:
2 Why are you using the Appleman chart when you admit it is inaccurate?
For the 5th time (you must be mentally challenged) it's accurate to 98% at predicting no contrails and when contrails are predicted it's only 25% accurate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alferd
you are going to have to come up with a better response than that if you want this two-bit ATS knockoff site to grow.
It's grown a lot and will continue with more posts from people like you. Thanks so much!

PS. Excellent chemtrail documentaries:


And my own personal eye-witness recordings of obvious chemtrail spraying


Quote:
Originally Posted by albie
TrutherD = Truth herd. HERD. Hidden words in your name, truther? must be an agent.
LMAO. HAHAHA. TOO FUNNY. THESE PAID TROLLS HAVE -NOTHING- MORE TO SAY ABOUT THE SCIENCE AND ARE NOT INTERESTED IN THE TRUTH. THEY ARE ONLY HERE TO DISCREDIT GOOD PEOPLE AND DISTRACT OTHERS FROM FINDING OUT WHAT'S GOING ON EVERY DAY ALL OVER THE WORLD.

Thanks for another page in Google, trolls!
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Last edited by TrutherD : 11-19-2009 at 12:09 PM.
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  #79  
Old 11-19-2009, 11:53 AM
TrutherD TrutherD is offline
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Default Re: Contrails cannot form into clouds (proof!)

Hey stompk, I have a dark field biological microscope. It's really cool to look at your own red blood cells flowing and your white blood cells moving around doing their job. Blood is an excellent indicator of overall health. With dark field microscopy you can see if your blood is too acidic, if there are undigested proteins, if you're low on anti-oxidants, heavy metal poisoning, parasites (you can watch them infect your red cells which then become zombies acting independently attacking other cells!) and much more. Such a microscope with a nice 2.0MP digital camera only costs about $600 these days.

Some examples and information on what can be seen:
Live Blood Labs Microscopes - High Quality Microscopes for Blood Analysis
Darkfield Studies - Flash: Blood Parasites
Darkfield Studies - Flash: Immune Response to Metal Toxicity

From darkfield microscopy, live blood cell analysis
Quote:
The FDA does not approve of dark field microscopic blood analysis, therefore many doctor's hands are tied.
Just another example of globalists controlling our access to inexpensive highly-effective tests and treatments. Once you identify a problem in the blood, all it takes is some food or a few herbs or supplements to right things. Within an hour or so you can check your blood again to see the results for yourself. It's really quite amazing and is very helpful in curing some tricky multi-staged problems.

Check out a summary of my several-month-long natural health investigation here:
NWO Research - Exposing the global elite and their crimes: They Control your Health

The sky is overcast with thick white haze (as is usual now) after the last spray session near me on Nov 17th (See My chemtrail videos). Do you think I could find some biological organisms in the rainwater? I'll have to take a look.
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Last edited by TrutherD : 11-19-2009 at 12:16 PM.
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  #80  
Old 11-19-2009, 02:03 PM
JazzRoc JazzRoc is offline
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Default Re: Contrails cannot form into clouds (proof!)

Don't congratulate yourselves too much on account of having picked up a retired grandfather on your thread.
It's already obvious both that no-one else here wants to exchange ideas with you AND you aren't going to dispute me either.
How long are you two trolls going to troll each other?
Well, personally I'm going to leave it a week, check in, and if it's only you two here, I shall not return.
You can keep your purulent thread to yourselves, and no-one will ever know how much you enjoy it.
That will be fair...
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