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  #31  
Old 09-05-2008, 03:34 AM
Out of the Box Out of the Box is offline
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Default Re: Christians V.S. THE WORLD!!!


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Originally Posted by Ozziecynic View Post
Thats all very scientific and rational of you however man longs for more that just cold calllous and objectivist rationality man longs to feel for the metaphysical or spiritual in life otherwise besides the often frivolous love involved in temporal relationships (some of it very poor quality) what else can material life offer us!
Spirituallity doesn't need to imply irrationallity and rationallity doesn't need to imply a lack of spirituallity. It's a common misunderstanding that logics is void of spirituality and spirituality is void of logics.

I don't believe in a being up in "heaven", but I am a spiritual person nevertheless. For me, nature = God and the laws of nature are the eternal laws on which we must base our morallity. All this, based on my rational understanding of biology, physics and psychology. As a consequence, my views are far more consistent than those of a Christian or humanist who lack this rational base.

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This is the reason athiests never get anywhere because they deny this spiritual craving in man/humanity.
I tend to agree with this. Like I said, I'm not an atheist myself. I' could call myself a scientific pagan.

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Originally Posted by Ozziecynic View Post
I while i realise you do follow a some path of spirituality i really think that it is some kind of watered down post mdern version of the real thing.
Actually, my views are very close to the esoteric knowledge of the ancient Egyptian, Greek, Babylonian or Germanic priests. Like me, they were entirely rational and combined science with spirituality.

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Originally Posted by Ozziecynic View Post
For example any of the thing you have stated about Buddhism do not seem to match my understanding of Buddhism.
A close friend of mine is a civil engineer about to finish his doctorate and also a convinced Buddhist and vegetarian. He helped me shape my views on this religion. Have you even met a Buddhist in person?

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Originally Posted by Ozziecynic View Post
You speak of synthesis of easten religions not just one which looks pretty New age to me infact it looks very theosophical i have read a fair amount about this movement so I know what I am talking about.
Theosophy is hogwash. My greatest influence is the traditionalist school of Guénon and Evola.

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Originally Posted by Ozziecynic View Post
Bottom line is whatever you believe is frivolous it has no foundations seems like some fad you are going through.
Hardly....


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Originally Posted by Ozziecynic View Post
I dont see Buddhism or Hinduism as rational at all Buddhism is very much a religion of humilty and submssion it has several degrees involved in its ascending ascestic path.
Buddhism is a religion, but it's based on rational grounds. The more advanced Buddhists reject dogma altogether and embrace an entirely logical foundation for their spirituality. Although I somewhat object to the submissive nature of Buddhism as well as its tendency to encourage enlightened ones to escape from reality, I still see a lot of value in it.

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Buddhism is about worshipping a supreme being buddha as supreme spiritual force and deity is this rational ?
Buddha is regarded as a human like all of us, with his own flaws and his own weaknesses. He is not prophet or a God. Buddhism states that anyone can follow the steps of Buddha by following the tenfold path. This is entirely distinct from the Christian teaching that regards Jesus as a divine entity who escaped death and who could do all sorts of miracles.

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Originally Posted by Ozziecynic View Post
In Hinduism they often worship Rats Cats, Cows etc.. all other kinds of beasts and make temples for them then worship at them and place incense sticks at them is this rational?
This is the exoteric version of Hinduism that's used for the masses. Esoteric Vedanta Hinduism lacks all this rubbish and is reduced to the bare essence.

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Originally Posted by Ozziecynic View Post
Infact is the Hindu caste system rational as it is all based on tradition and ascription for all following generations of the same family is this rational?
Yes. The Hindu caste system preserved the complex racial make-up of India. It avoided cultural and ethnic dillution.

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Originally Posted by Ozziecynic View Post
As you should be able to see or others will see reading your posts you have many contradictions running through them this is not helping your course to be taken seriously.
Just because you don't see the logic, that doesn't mean there is no logic. We have a completely different worldview and it is impossible to judge certain distinct views on their value and see any correlation without observing them from the context of the entire worldview.

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Originally Posted by Ozziecynic View Post
Whether you realise it or not you actually think like a Freemason your mindset is very materialistic because you think like a complete dialecticist.
I am a complete dialecticist but anything but a materialist. One doesn't imply the other.

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Originally Posted by Ozziecynic View Post
On the contrary I am coming from a differnt direction altogether I am not a rationalist if anything I thinking very metaphyscially and irrationally or spiritually as some might say.
Immanuel Kant was a very spiritual/metaphysical person but also an extremely rational person. It is individuals like Kant with whom I most identity. See below :
Quote:
Kant's Metaphysics

How might the human mind relate objects a priori, independently of the input of the senses? One possibility is that the mind employs a faculty which relates to objects directly or intuitively, bypassing the senses entirely. Another possibility is that the mind gets at its objects indirectly, through the use of general concepts, which in turn are not the products of sense experience. Kant held that both these traditional explanations of a priori access to objects are fatally flawed.

Philosophers from Plato onward have held that the human mind has direct insight into objects apart from their being given through the senses. Kant dismissed such claims to "intellectual intuition" of objects as mystical. His fundamental objection was that directly given objects are given nonetheless, and that no existing object can be given to human beings "as is." What is given in human intuition is always modified by the manner in which it is received. Only an "original" intuition, one which gives rise to the very existence of its object, would be able to represent its objects as they are "in themselves."

The difficulty with intellectual intuition is circumvented by the second approach to metaphysics, according to which the human mind is related to objects a priori through the use of general concepts. Kant held that although some of our general concept (e.g. that of a dog) are derived from sense-experience, others (e.g., that of a supreme being) are generated "spontaneously" by the human mind itself. Such concept-generation is therefore a priori, and the generated concepts are legitimate starting-points for metaphysical investigation. "The root and peculiarity of metaphysics," Kant stated, is "the occupation of reason merely with itself and the supposed knowledge of objects arising immediately from this brooding over its own concepts, without requiring experience or indeed being able to reach that knowledge through experience" (Prolegomena to any Future Metaphysics, Section 40).

Despite this solid beginning, metaphysics quickly takes a wrong turn, according to Kant. The a priori origin of metaphysical concepts suggests that they apply to objects which themselves are independent of sense-experience. In Kant's terminology, such concepts are used "transcendently" in a vain attempt to gain access to "hyper-physical" objects, such as God. But the applicability of pure concepts to non-sensible objects is a kind of illusion, the exposure to which spells an end to traditional metaphysics.

Kant's proposed an alternative metaphysics, which retains an a priori element, but confines it to objects of sense-experience. These objects are given to the human mental faculty of "sensibility." As mentioned above, Kant held that any object given to the human mind is subject to the means by which the mind receives it. Kant claimed that there are two "forms" of human intuition, space and time, and that all objects of sense-experience are therefore to be found in some region of space and at some period of time. Space and time themselves are not taken from experience, and hence are a priori forms. Kant regarded his "discovery" of a "sensible a priori" to be crucial to the explanation of mathematical knowledge. Objects of sense-experience conform to mathematical principles because the principles themselves are directly applicable to space and time.

Objects are given to the human mind in space and time, and they are thought through general concepts. Kant claimed to have discovered as systematic arrangement of twelve a priori concepts which he called "categories." The legitmate use of the categories is restricted to objects in space and time, i.e., the objects of sense-experience. Most prominent among the categories is that of cause and effect, whose principle is that every change in an object of sense-experience is determined by its prior state in accordance with a rule.

Attempting to extend the use of the categories beyond the field of sensible objects is what gives rise to the illusion that a priori concepts can be used transcendently. For example, the category of causality might be extended to encompass an uncaused cause. Such an object could not be met with in experience, which is subject to the principle that every change in an object is the outcome of its prior state and a rule governing its transition to the subsequent state. On the other hand, there is something profoundly unsatisfying to human reason in the postulation of an endless series of causes. So there is a conflict or "antinomy" of reason with itself.

Kant took such an conflict as symbolic of the futility of transcendent metaphysics. We must simply give up any pretense to knowledge of some ultimate or unconditioned object like an uncaused cause. If may be useful to assume that there is such a thing, but its existence can never be proved. On the other hand, its existence cannot be disproved, either. Kant held that the failure of transcendent metaphysics carries with it a highly desirable consequence. It allows for the possibility of human freedom, insofar as the human will is considered as a non-sensible object. This is of supreme importance for Kant's ethics.

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  #32  
Old 09-05-2008, 09:45 PM
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Exclamation Re: Christians V.S. THE WORLD!!!

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Spirituallity doesn't need to imply irrationallity and rationallity doesn't need to imply a lack of spirituallity. It's a common misunderstanding that logics is void of spirituality and spirituality is void of logics.
In history it was always the Postivists which held the charge against religion that it was irrational and full of superstition. Why else did volataire in his day try to annihilate christianity once and for all. The only kind of spirituality logicsts give us is fake and materialistic kind. Like the modern Mega churches for example ever been to a Prosperity Preaching Mega church and these are meant to be spinoffs of the Pentecostal movement the most spiritual churches that are suppose to exist within PM Christianity. You will realise just how rotten christianity has become that much I agree on.

Quote:
I don't believe in a being up in "heaven", but I am a spiritual person nevertheless. For me, nature = God and the laws of nature are the eternal laws on which we must base our morallity. All this, based on my rational understanding of biology, physics and psychology. As a consequence, my views are far more consistent than those of a Christian or humanist who lack this rational base.
I do God dwells in my soul right now I am not of the world only in it. My existential christian existence is complete. I do not need the world it could end tomorrow and i would feel no sentimentality towards it or my feeble human relationships (except my direct family)whatsoever. As you see i am very irrational the world cant deal with it either.
Humanists are NOT Christians they are a creation of the Secret Occult societies to counter christianity thats a fact!. So far they have not altogether succeeded by using the out right lets smash and eradicate it due to state laws response so instead they tried the lets infiltrate it and thus brainwash the exoteric mass into antichrist doctrines strategy eg the Pope is equal with God in the case of catholics or Prosperity Gospel with modern protestants.

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I tend to agree with this. Like I said, I'm not an atheist myself. I' could call myself a scientific pagan.
Good for you does this make you one of the NWO elite then!. My status in society is very ordinary although I do have my experinence in the tertiary education system of my country.

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A close friend of mine is a civil engineer about to finish his doctorate and also a convinced Buddhist and vegetarian. He helped me shape my views on this religion. Have you even met a Buddhist in person?
Yes i have met an Australian guy whom claimed to be a buddhist he was like you and your friend sounds very much post modern and very much part of the mainstream western society. Are you and your friend living in a Buddhist monastery living a full ascestic lifestyle?. Somehow i doubt it, so how can you even think of labeling yourself buddhist. If you said this to buddhist monk in Lhasa tibet and you were still living your modern western lifestyle what would he/she think.
Quote:
Buddhism is a religion, but it's based on rational grounds. The more advanced Buddhists reject dogma altogether and embrace an entirely logical foundation for their spirituality. Although I somewhat object to the submissive nature of Buddhism as well as its tendency to encourage enlightened ones to escape from reality, I still see a lot of value in it.
Looks like some post modern revisionist crap which is called buddhism however is anything but. Infact with such mindset you look more like one of the Communist Chinese soldiers beating the Buddhist monks over the heads with batons.

Quote:
I am a complete dialecticist but anything but a materialist. One doesn't imply the other.
Such rationalist views lead directly to materialism they also lead directly to ISMs like capitalism and communism which before you claimed to be against.
I do not put any faith in any man made doctrines or ISMs I only follow my own exegeses of the the Bible.
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Last edited by Ozziecynic : 09-06-2008 at 02:11 AM.
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  #33  
Old 09-06-2008, 03:51 AM
Leonardo Leonardo is offline
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Default Re: Christians V.S. THE WORLD!!!

This Universe Makes No Sense Except The Sense God Gives To It! You People! It Is His Program Alone! You Are A Subject Not An Object, And I Know That You Know!
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  #34  
Old 09-06-2008, 07:52 AM
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Default Re: Christians V.S. THE WORLD!!!

Makes sense to me...Jesus freaks think they know it all....and God has more than one agenda...I am one of them.
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Old 09-07-2008, 01:40 AM
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Makes sense to me...Jesus freaks think they know it all....and God has more than one agenda...I am one of them.
No, I am an agenda!
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  #36  
Old 09-07-2008, 04:57 AM
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Makes sense to me...Jesus freaks think they know it all....and God has more than one agenda...I am one of them.
Mankind as whole thinks it can control the world and will live on for eternity most of us in post modern society believe we are immortals this flawed view which will shortly come to an abrupt end in Jerusalem I am guessing in the next five years some escatologists both christian and esoteric agree some time around 2012 crap hits the fan armeggedon finito, the End, its also the mayan calander, end of an epoch or age. Also correlates to the kali yuga just to show you all that i do have other knowledge besides orthodox christianity which is my primary faith.
By the way most of these jesus freaks you speak of many of them are just as pagan as pagans especially if they only use the religion for political purposes. So the question is there a difference between many christians and pagans in our age at the end of the day very little youd be surprised christianity is falling away big time.
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  #37  
Old 09-07-2008, 05:04 AM
Leonardo Leonardo is offline
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Originally Posted by Ozziecynic View Post
Mankind as whole thinks it can control the world and will live on for eternity most of us in post modern society believe we are immortals this flawed view which will shortly come to an abrupt end in Jerusalem I am guessing in the next five years some escatologists both christian and esoteric agree some time around 2012 crap hits the fan armeggedon finito, the End, its also the mayan calander, end of an epoch or age. Also correlates to the kali yuga just to show you all that i do have other knowledge besides orthodox christianity which is my primary faith.
By the way most of these jesus freaks you speak of many of them are just as pagan as pagans especially if they only use the religion for political purposes. So the question is there a difference between many christians and pagans in our age at the end of the day very little youd be surprised christianity is falling away big time.
Falling away? Brother I was Catholic and now Orthodox as well. And I'd say it's flat rolled off the cliff. I'm serious. And how could it not? A long time ago everyone decided that repeating one litergy from one russion from 900s would support the Faith for all time. And you know how these Pharisees of the Church are. That stupid litergy is going to drive me INSANE if I hear it one more time! I'm not being sacreligious here. I BLOODY TIRED OF GODS OF WOOD AND STONE! I WANT LIFE, THE GOD OF LIFE, AND I WANT SEX DAMNIT!

With Bishops like these, who needs Illuminati?

Let's just say I'm not in the 'best' standing with the clergy. They tell me they are the faithful. I think they're a bunch of abominable hypocrites.

Now, it's been a long time coming. And now that I have discovered the key to Song of Solomon I am now pursueing a woman to bang. They have tried to steal our penises. And so I am looking for a beautiful woman who wants a sort of priest like almost ordained nearly clergy type person for marriage.

Last edited by Leonardo : 09-07-2008 at 05:07 AM.
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  #38  
Old 09-07-2008, 05:36 AM
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Falling away? Brother I was Catholic and now Orthodox as well. And I'd say it's flat rolled off the cliff. I'm serious. And how could it not? A long time ago everyone decided that repeating one litergy from one russion from 900s would support the Faith for all time. And you know how these Pharisees of the Church are. That stupid litergy is going to drive me INSANE if I hear it one more time! I'm not being sacreligious here.
I have found the Prosperity Preaching Megachurches to be far worse although i take your point about catholics equally. The problem is most sheeple are born into churches due to their upbringing not due to personal choice this is why there so many fools hanging around churches every sunday they think its all just about family values end of story well they can do that at Rotary or sports clubs so why use the church to do that!.
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  #39  
Old 09-07-2008, 05:46 AM
Leonardo Leonardo is offline
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I have found the Prosperity Preaching Megachurches to be far worse although i take your point about catholics equally. The problem is most sheeple are born into churches due to their upbringing not due to personal choice this is why there so many fools hanging around churches every sunday they think its all just about family values end of story well they can do that at Rotary or sports clubs so why use the church to do that!.
Well you're right, Ozzie. Bloody cruel system the whole thing. Here we all are, born free, having free spirits, and we get about 4 years of blissful ignorance. And then, we are thrust straight into a Hell called public education. And for the next 12 or so years we are programmed by teachers, peers, music, television, movies, churches, governments, clothing fashions, eating habbits and other trends.

And then, it gets even better. Not only do we have to endure all that crap, but WORK OURSELVES OUT OF IT!

Now isn't that fun.

And then on television we have the megachurch preachers like Joel Olstein and Max Lucado telling us to just be positive and concentrate on blessing ourselves in our finances.

And then people ask why I drink wine!

I'm not a very good priest. I suck at it. And I'm sure no televangelist, and no one really needs and extra theologian these days. So I think I'm going to go live with the Indians.

Last edited by Leonardo : 09-07-2008 at 05:50 AM.
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  #40  
Old 09-07-2008, 10:08 PM
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Default Re: Christians V.S. THE WORLD!!!

I think you would get a better view from here if you saw my BLUESTAR posts at 2012 forums....I am the one you were warned about.(no one ever listens though)

Leonardo read...I said it first ! I am gonna go live with the indians!

Last edited by BeenThereDoneThat : 09-07-2008 at 10:13 PM.
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