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  #41  
Old 10-27-2008, 10:18 PM
BlueAngel BlueAngel is offline
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Default Re: Zeitgeist & The Venus Project


Just curious, Raiderdad, why so much concern about Leonardo being banned for a minor infraction?

Are you good buddies, or something?

There are rules in life that we must follow and when we don't, sometimes we pay the price.

Such as a speeding violation, etc.

It's not ALWAYS about Freedom of Speech.

Internet forums are kind of like class rooms.

There are rules.

When disruptive behavior is not conducive to the environment, it should not be tolerated.

That would be like asking an audience who is watching a Broadway show to tolerate a man standing up in his seat and screaming profanities throughout the performance.

How would you feel about that man being allowed to continue to express his Freedom of Speech after you paid two hundred dollars a ticket for yourself and your wife?

I'm sure you'd want him to remain in the theatre because he's expressing his FREEDOM OF SPEECH, eh?

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  #42  
Old 11-06-2008, 06:07 AM
boomer boomer is offline
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Default Re: Zeitgeist & The Venus Project

So, Venus project is all about the money at the end Just nicely decorated. A Research Center facilities for sale (what kind of research are they running there?) Central Florida Real Estate - Florida Real Estate For Sale
If it's for a scientific purpuse, why not to invite ppl to participate in the program for free? What's the point of leaving there? There's still going to be a monetory system in there. Where do you think people will get food and clothes? To build a shelter is not as important as to get food. Looks like a green house project: just a real estate business implementing environmently-friendly technologies and SELLs it. This anti-monetary system boolshit is just a nice marketing. They don't even try to create a society without a monetary system, and of course present political systems will not let them do it.

P.S. Re. the decoration: I do agree with all statements they make in their movies, but what they do here .... is just a scam. Playing on people's feelings ...... Scarsity was, is, and will be. And of course it's easier to exchange in dollors then in land, bread, facotries, pensils etc. Money is a great invention and were invented when noone knew what capitalism is! And money issued should be supported by the golden reserve. Like in Russia, each Rubble has a value of 1 gram of gold which exists in reality. And it's not like a Federal Reserve making money out of the thin air.
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  #43  
Old 11-08-2008, 04:52 PM
Raiderdad Raiderdad is offline
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Default Re: Zeitgeist & The Venus Project

one doesn't get anywhere's in a capitlaist run society unless they play the game....it's what they do w/the money...not the fact that they still participate....they are forced to particpate until the plan gains more of a following...at least unuff to make it self sufficient. Are you aware of the term kibbutz? I think this is what you may mean when you ask "why not invite folks to live there for free" But alas, this isn't a kibbutz in Israel & we are still forced to live in a capitalistic society....so this idea s not possible...yet.

Having said that, I'm not sure u r fully grasping the concept & the end game of it all.....mostly b/c u said....

"...there's still going to be a monetary currency in there....where do u think people will get food & clothes?"

I know it's a hard concept to grasp...& that's b/c we've been so conditioned to the degree that we are. No, there will not be a currency...no need, as long as the resources are being managed there's no need for money....clothes & food are resoruces...resources for which technology already exists to the point where money is not needed. You also made mention that the political system will not allow for the removal of our monetary system as we know it....again, the idea here is the removal of politics all together....at least politics as we know it....lobbies, etc.

What would occur in 8 yrs if not 1 person voted for a President? I realize this is quite Utopian.....but just imagine....what would occur...who would they put in the White House?

I agree in that there is no easy answer.....but calling it a scam? Who are they scamming for? Well if u call a scam trying to remove currency & managing the resources then sure, itza scam..& one I'd gladly welcome

At least more so than how we're being managed now as a society....show us a better way & Im all ears. & if ya can't think of anything better....try to improve upon the one that's being proposed. At least try to visualize
it in the correct manner for which the ultimate goal is.

So don't get me wrong...I'm all for suggestions & ways to improve things....but one thing that's surely not gonna get us anywhere is to slam ideas...especially w/out fully understanding them & then not bringing anything else to the table.

Strange feeling one gets from reading this site...seems many here aim to discredit things/people who are intorducing new ideas (Zetigeist) & ways to improve our society (Venus Project). I've yet to hear one person here respond in a proactive/favorable/positive way. Quite to the contrary, in fact it appears most who post here tend to feel threatened by such grand ideas...strange. If I didn't know any better I'd say there's a religious zealot (not directing that comment at you per se) or 2 here. I only say this b/c it seems as if they dont like it when suggestions of ways to change the course we're on are brought up. Not even so much as a "yes, that sure sounds like something I would like to work towards" Just lotza negativism & anger....guess that's to be expected on a forum such as this....lol

Whatever.....I was just hoping to find some folks here who are seeking a better way/plan cuz the road we're on certainly aint working for the masses. I was hoping folks here would want to be proactive about it & converse constructively towards a goal of improving life/society as we know it.
Life's too short not to imo....I was hoping for more from this site.....beg to think my expectations along these lines were too high.

In closing.....if there's anyone out there whose interested in change for the better & wish to constructively exchange ideas or expand & improve upon the one's that have been introduced....I'm all ears & eyes.

Cheers!!
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  #44  
Old 11-09-2008, 09:42 AM
boomer boomer is offline
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Default Re: Zeitgeist & The Venus Project

Probably, I didn't explaine myself in a right way. My point, in fact, is the following:
I DO completely agree 100% with what was shown to us in both movies, and I don't believe in relegions we are offered in such variety to us *but I do believe in God, but not like a church describes it to us). I completely agree that communism (and resource based system it is) can be reached through either socialism or capitalism ... it will be just another change in society (like a transition from imperialism to democracy) .... that's ok. But now, people are not ready yet to make this step. However, some including me would of course try to live in such system but it can not be obtained in a peaceful way accoridn to the "power elite" theory, power elite holds the main part of the resources and power and will do anything to keep it. Moreover, the movie looks just like another new age movies "What the bleep do we know?" where after presenting well proved and reasonable points, at the end they try to promote (market) their product wheather a membership in a sect or real estate one..... like in this case.
In order to change a system and bring new ideas, one doesn't build houses for sale saying there is another world (unfortunatelly it's no quite there yet) .... but creates political movements, educates people and tries to convince them to vote for that new sipirt group so that democratically we would come to the golden age, or resource-based economy. Here, I don't see a clear program except building a community where people would shre common ideas, but still be dependant on the monetary economy. No governemnt will allow THEM to access all resources they need for an idependent existance. So, for now the idea is utopic and the way they try to bring into life looks just like a scam ..... Who of the political leaders was building their own country within an existing one without fearing that an existing government can easiloy destroy such community. Revolutions are done wfrist in minds, then through peaceful or violent means, but not through SELLING houses to the followers. *However, the idea is a very good cover for such enterpreneuers).
I am pro change, but against scammers! SO if there any way of changeing thins world - I am in, but I refuce to buy property for 500,000 dollars.!
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  #45  
Old 11-09-2008, 09:49 AM
boomer boomer is offline
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Default Re: Zeitgeist & The Venus Project

Probably, I didn't explaine myself in a right way. My point, in fact, is the following:
I DO completely agree 100% with what was shown to us in both movies, and I don't believe in relegions we are offered in such variety (but I do believe in God, but not like a church describes it to us). I completely agree that communism (and resource based system it is) can be reached through either socialism or capitalism ... it will be just another change in society (like a transition from imperialism to democracy) .... that's ok. But now, people are not ready yet to make this step. However, some including me would of course try to live in such system but it can not be obtained in a peaceful way accoridn to the "power elite" theory, power elite holds the main part of the resources and power and will do anything to keep it. Moreover, the movie looks just like another new age movies "What the bleep do we know?" where after presenting well proved and reasonable points, at the end they try to promote (market) their product wheather a membership in a sect or real estate one..... like in this case.
In order to change a system and bring new ideas, one doesn't build houses for sale saying there is another world (unfortunatelly it's no quite there yet) .... but creates political movements, educates people and tries to convince them to vote for that new sipirt group so that democratically we would come to the golden age, or resource-based economy. Here, I don't see a clear program except building a community where people would share common ideas and neighborhood, but still be dependant on the monetary economy. No governemnt will allow THEM to access all resources they need for an idependent existance. So, for now the idea is utopic and the way they try to bring into life looks just like a scam ..... Who of the political leaders was building their own country within an existing one without fearing that an existing government can easiloy destroy such community. Revolutions are done wfrist in minds, then through peaceful or violent means, but not through SELLING houses to the followers. *However, the idea is a very good cover for such enterpreneuers).
I am pro change, but against scammers! SO if there is any way of changeing thins world - I am in, but I refuce to buy property for 500,000 dollars.! ))))

Last edited by boomer : 11-09-2008 at 09:52 AM.
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  #46  
Old 11-09-2008, 10:18 AM
Raiderdad Raiderdad is offline
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Default Re: Zeitgeist & The Venus Project

What a breath of fresh air your post was....TYVM!!

Nice to know there's a level head or 2 here.

Thx for your comments...they were well rec'd...even if we don't meet 100% eye to eye on everything (the belief on God bein one) I do enjoy hearing the thoughts of others on the matter.

Having said that....anyone know anything about the forum "Waronyou"?

What's the skinny w/that one?

Cheers!!
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  #47  
Old 11-09-2008, 02:09 PM
golfpro golfpro is offline
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Default Re: Zeitgeist & The Venus Project

so i just finished watching both zeitgeist and zeitgeist A.,, have to admit i bought it pretty quickly to alot of the thoughts and ideology behind it,, the idea of the venus project and the utopian type world is obviosuly one that is to be sought after, however improbable it may be to ever obtain. On this note, I do think its important to realize that although the idea of having no monetary importance sounds great, and ever better the thought that people would no longer need to "work" per say sounds even better until you start to consider some things, such as the daily services and activites that we now work for to be able to do. Now I am not talking about things to have, but rather things to do and keep busy,, for example, in this type of a society, sure it would be great that people could do all the things they LOVE to do,, paint, photography, make music ( basically the arts), but what about the jobs that are needed to make the rest of our daily enjoyments possible. I know I am rambling, so I will get to my point. Lets take the example of sports. Going to sport games and playing them is enjoyed by countless people. If the need for money goes away, and thus in turn leadin to people not having to work jobs,, how would we get equipment to play sports, how would we get service in the stands,, how would we go out to eat at restaurants? People are not going to simply work serving, cooking and washing dishes because they feel like it. I am a golf pro,, so obviously playing the game is something i love to do,, as do millions of people aroundthe world,, if there were no need or employment who would cut the grass we play on,, organize the business so that things run smooth? make my golf equipment? etc etc etc etc,,,, if no body is working, what do we do to pass all of our time? now i have only watched the two movies and not yet the actual video on the venus project, so i may be completely off base and misinformed, but these were just a few thoughts that came to mind right away
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  #48  
Old 11-09-2008, 02:27 PM
Raiderdad Raiderdad is offline
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Default Re: Zeitgeist & The Venus Project

All good comments & no, you're not off base at all w/your thoughts.

I think the idea is that in order for such a system to work, people must still perform their regular jobs, in this way they'd be able to particiapte in such a way of life...otherwise you're right that it will not work. Of course there are many jobs/careers that would become obsolete yet other jobs/duties that would still need to be fullfilled as well....folks will still play golf of course so there still be a need for golf pros...& most other professions.

Here's where I'm gettin hung up....if someone decides they dont wanna work & just freeload.....what do we do w/them? There's got to be a way to either get them onboard (not make or force them in any way mind you) or provide another viable option...ie some kinda Venus Project "Jail" lol

There's of course still tons of questions that need to be addressed & dealt with....or at least the creators of this idea have yet to tell us what their ideas are....maybe they are waiting for more interest before they tell us more so about the plans they have thus far? I admit that I still do not know very much about it all myself....which is why I came here...to see if I can learn more.

At least this idea imo is a start & a step in the right direction.

You have def made mention of a few of the issues that need more focus.

A golf pro eh....former tennis pro here...tho that part of my life ended in 1990....degenerative disc disease in the low back at levels L3,4&5 did me in....20+ yrs of hard court tennis will do that I guess. Doc looked at my MRI when I was 28 & said he thought he was lookin at the back of a 55 yr old...lol

Anyway.....good points you've raised...thx for keepin the conversation flowin.

so i just finished watching both zeitgeist and zeitgeist A.,, have to admit i bought it pretty quickly to alot of the thoughts and ideology behind it,, the idea of the venus project and the utopian type world is obviosuly one that is to be sought after, however improbable it may be to ever obtain. On this note, I do think its important to realize that although the idea of having no monetary importance sounds great, and ever better the thought that people would no longer need to "work" per say sounds even better until you start to consider some things, such as the daily services and activites that we now work for to be able to do. Now I am not talking about things to have, but rather things to do and keep busy,, for example, in this type of a society, sure it would be great that people could do all the things they LOVE to do,, paint, photography, make music ( basically the arts), but what about the jobs that are needed to make the rest of our daily enjoyments possible. I know I am rambling, so I will get to my point. Lets take the example of sports. Going to sport games and playing them is enjoyed by countless people. If the need for money goes away, and thus in turn leadin to people not having to work jobs,, how would we get equipment to play sports, how would we get service in the stands,, how would we go out to eat at restaurants? People are not going to simply work serving, cooking and washing dishes because they feel like it. I am a golf pro,, so obviously playing the game is something i love to do,, as do millions of people aroundthe world,, if there were no need or employment who would cut the grass we play on,, organize the business so that things run smooth? make my golf equipment? etc etc etc etc,,,, if no body is working, what do we do to pass all of our time? now i have only watched the two movies and not yet the actual video on the venus project, so i may be completely off base and misinformed, but these were just a few thoughts that came to mind right away[/quote]
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  #49  
Old 03-27-2009, 05:50 PM
knowledgeisfreedom knowledgeisfreedom is offline
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Default Re: Zeitgeist & The Venus Project

The process of the transition will be long and yes you can't simply phase out all jobs but as technology increases and we are able to elliminate jobs but people don't have to get jobs to supplement their income they will be able to cut back on the amount of hours they work. Giving most people more time to focus on areas of their interest such as music, volunteering for a cause they believe in, being there for their kids so they don't grow up messed up due to a lack of met needs during childhood...ect.
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  #50  
Old 06-23-2009, 04:31 PM
Milly Milly is offline
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Default Re: Zeitgeist & The Venus Project

This is quickly becoming one of my favorite documentaries, as it restates things that are so obviously wrong our monetary system and our laughable "democracy" that we so gently thrust upon freaking everybody.

The nice thing is that anyone with a couple hours can watch this for free on the internet. Or search for it on YouTube and you can watch it bit by bit, with 13 chapters.
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