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  #1  
Old 04-12-2005, 09:33 AM
get_real get_real is offline
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Default ARE THEY WHO THEY SAY THEY ARE? And that is...?


Does anyone know or ever heard of AHEPA?
(Greek organization)

Someone told me that they are a Freemason-type organization.

Also, how about them Knights of Columbus????
Are they a mirror image of Freemasonry???

Can I trust the ELKS? I like their all-you-can eat spaghetti dinners, though!!

Someone once told me they all have the same thread running through them??

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Old 04-12-2005, 10:09 AM
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Yeoshua Yeoshua is offline
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Default Re: ARE THEY WHO THEY SAY THEY ARE? And that is...?

AHEPA, the worlds largest Greek-American organisation.

The American Hellenic Educational Progressive Association

http://www.ahepa.org

The Knights of Columbus - NOT affiliated to Templary or Freemasonry in any way

http://www.kofc.org

Please note in the crest, a hatchet bound by sticks..........

Which for the more attentive in the class is a symbol of?
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Old 04-12-2005, 02:32 PM
MasonTemplar MasonTemplar is offline
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Default Re: ARE THEY WHO THEY SAY THEY ARE? And that is...?

I'm a Knight of Columbus. It was Catholicism's attempt to do a couple of things. One, it was designed for women who became widows to be taken care of - as well as their children. In the upper east of the U.S., Catholic men - mostly Irish, made up a significant portion of the general workforce. This typically meant that they didn't have a lot of reserve funds on hand in the event of their death and the widow wasn't able to afford a traditional funeral or take care of herself and her children. It was founded in the late 1800's by Father Michael J. McGivney in Connecticut. By joining, a member knew that his family would receive some assistance in the event of his death - not much, but some. This was done by giving them a life insurance policy. To this day, a member can receive the standard policy, or they can purchase other policies through their Knights of Columbus financial representative. This gentleman will handle all of the financial matters for the widow for the funeral. In the event that the widow doesn't want to plan out the funeral, he would also help to oversee the arrangements. They would be a typical KofC service. A member is not required to take out a policy, and many don't.
Another reason was to create a sense of Catholic male comradery. Because men put so many long hours into their day, there wasn't a lot left for a social life. This comradery helped them establish some networking, too. It's no secret that Irish Catholics were hard pressed to find safe,decent jobs paying a livable wage when they first came over. Discrimination ran rampant by the WASP dominated northeast. That's why so many became cops - to go along with the stereotype. The networking along with the degree system is similar to masonry, but that's where the similarities end.
There are four degrees to the KCs - each one espousing a particular ideal; Unity, Charity, Fraternity, and Patriotism. I sometimes have a hard time with the fourth degree in that most of these guys are WWII old timers and they don't take kindly to young punks talking trash about the government. That's just because of the era in which they grew up.
There is an initiation, and an oath taken. But, that oath is to Jesus the Christ, not to each other. That, first and foremost, is the biggest difference between the two. The other difference is that the ideals are based on everything that is common Catholic knowledge. The only thing that's secret is how the initiation is performed and the meetings of the 3rd and 4th degree. I belong to one of the oldest councils in existence. One would have to go to the upper east of the U.S. to find one that's older. It is by far the oldest council in our state. I can tell you that our meetings are made up of planning funerals, charity drives, different designated acts of charity for needy individuals - usually someone who is very ill, has just lost a loved one, etc.
The major charity drive is the "Tootsie Roll Drive" for the mentally handicapped. This money goes to the planning and expenses of the Special Olympics and other institutions for the sole purpose of helping them and their families out. We get audited every year by a different independent firm each time and everything is accounted for - unlike the Shriners.
So that's pretty much it. About the only major impact we've had besides charity work is that the Pledge of Allegiance used to say "One nation, indivisible, with libery and justice for all." That changed back in the 50's when a strong KC lobby pushed for the words "under God" to be added.
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Old 04-12-2005, 03:02 PM
MasonTemplar MasonTemplar is offline
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Default Re: ARE THEY WHO THEY SAY THEY ARE? And that is...?

I meant "liberty." Sorry for the misspell.
One other thing that is kind of interesting. In the late 1800's and the early 1900's, my great grandfather was the Chief of Detectives of the Toronto Police Force (fits the Irish Catholic cop stereotype). He was offered the position of Chief of Police. There was one stipulation, though. In order for him to get the job, he was told he had to become a freemason. Since being initiated into freemasonry and taking a death oath to someone instead of God was looked down upon by the Catholic Church (and most Christian denominations are headed this way, too), he said "no" to the initiation. The job offer was rescinded. It is just an example of some of the things that prompted blue collar Catholic men to want to join the KCs.
I did it because I wanted to honor my father, grandfather, and great grandfather. Plus I like doing the charity stuff. It's fun.
FYI - contrary to what many people believe, it is still not condoned by the Catholic Church to be associated with freemasonry. What was released in 1983 was misinterpreted and corrected in 1998(I think it was that year - but I'd have to double check).
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Old 04-12-2005, 03:44 PM
get_real get_real is offline
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Default Re: ARE THEY WHO THEY SAY THEY ARE? And that is...?

Hello MT!

I've taken care of several elderly that were freemason, (and the womenfolk OES.)

However, a certain patient comes to mind.
He told me he was not a freemason, but a financial supporter. (???????????)
What is that about? He never went into it with me, and I didn't continue to ask. How we had stumbled upon the whole subject of freemasonry was some nik-naks he had in the china cabinet with the logo.
etc, etc, etc..................
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Old 04-12-2005, 07:46 PM
truebeliever truebeliever is offline
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Default Re: ARE THEY WHO THEY SAY THEY ARE? And that is...?

MT, does your organisation have a secret handshake or 'secret' attributes of any kind?
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Old 04-13-2005, 04:22 AM
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Yeoshua Yeoshua is offline
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Default Re: ARE THEY WHO THEY SAY THEY ARE? And that is...?

An axe bound by sticks a symbol known as a "Fasces".

Bear any resembelance to another word?

I'll give you a clue - Mussolini had it on his flag.

Zeljko, I think, has mentioned the fasces in Ecuador's arms - this is not surprising as the Latin American states, like the US itself, were very influenced by neo-classicalism for their national iconographies.
Fasces can also be found lurking behind the shield of the arms of Cuba, believe it or not, and as the national arms appear on the Presidential standard, Fidel Castro himself bears fasces!

I have been lead to believe that the term "Fascism" comes only indirectly from the Roman usage (though no doubt Mussolini was not adverse to asserting the link) and that it stems from the "fasci di combattimento" "combat squads" formed immedately after WW1 by disenchanted veterans which Mussolini organised into a national movement which swept him to power. I don't know if this is strictly correct though.

A fasces refers to a bundle of rods wrapped together with an axe. It was used during the Roman Empire.
In terms of modern political usage, I know of the following few examples (aside from the obvious case of Italy) :
During the time of Marshal Philippe Petain's rule, the symbol of his regime was a double-edged fasces. I am not sure what the Party symbol of Jacques Doriot's Parti Populaire Francais (PPF) was, but I believe that the PPF might have used this symbol as well. I am not sure if Sir Oswald Mosley's British Union of Fascists (BUF) used the fasces in its iconography. (I believe the BUF main symbol was a lightning flash).
I am unsure if the Italian flag and iconography was changed at all during the time of the Italian Social Republic (Salo Republic).

Benevolent Catholic Organisation......Even the very words are a contradiction in terms.

For those who don't believe, do a search on either "Fasces" or "Axe bound by sticks" in Google.

And you are correct MasonTemplar, Catholics still persecute Freemasons and KT's. The set of DOUBLECROSSING murdering, sanctimonious bastards.

While you're at it, do a search on the origins of the words "To DOUBLECROSS"
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Old 04-13-2005, 07:16 AM
MasonTemplar MasonTemplar is offline
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Default Re: ARE THEY WHO THEY SAY THEY ARE? And that is...?

Your anomosity towards Catholics just proves my point about how deeply seeded this issue is. I'm not defending what the church did back in the early 1300's or the late 1700's to your ilk.
I will say, though, that the KC's were started by a very common man who was not what you would consider being in on the inside. In fact, had he known about Columbus what we know now, the name of the organization would have been different. I'm not going to pretend that the KC's are more than they are. If you want a truly powerful Catholic fraternity - go after the Military Order of the Knights of Malta. They have their own website. Just look how much rigamorole one has to go through to become one. If you're not already on the inside, there's no chance.
As for a secret handshake or anything secret would do in public to identify ourselves, there is none. I know the guys we've elected as part of our State Supreme Council. These guys are very modest. Some are retired farmers.
I would be a little careful about throwing so much meaning behind our symbolism because that would open the door on your side as well. Gotta go, but this is starting to be a fun discussion.
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Old 04-13-2005, 07:38 AM
truebeliever truebeliever is offline
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Default Re: ARE THEY WHO THEY SAY THEY ARE? And that is...?

Nothing to do with identifying yourself in public...any secret oath etc...i think you know what i mean.
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Old 04-13-2005, 08:45 AM
Draken Draken is offline
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Default Re: ARE THEY WHO THEY SAY THEY ARE? And that is...?

Fascism has been greatly misunderstood, both unwittingly and on purpose. Before anyone jumps at my throat I have to say I have only started looking into the reasons and ideologies of the so-called "Mediterranean Tradition" as opposed to the "Christian/European" one.

This seems a very harsh text at first read, I admit, and I don't necessarily understand everything that's insinuated or agree with everything said. I do agree though, with the overall attitude when it comes to leaders having to be of a totally different ilk and their authority being dependent on their spiritual maturity.

Also, remember that this text was written in 1928, when Fascism in Italy was an alternative to Communism and people sympathized with Fascism because it was actually fighting International Communism.

There is no doubt Evola was very critical of Christianity. He saw it as a manifestation of the decadence of spirituality spanning over aeons of time; from The Golden Age right down to the present Iron Age (Kali Yuga). Hence, his perspective is much wider than most peoples'.

---------------


<a href="http://www.geocities.com/integral_tradition/antieu.html">FASCISM AS ANTI-EUPOPE</a>
by Julius Evola (Translation from Imperialismo Pagano, Atanor, Todi-Roma 1928)

Can fascism be the source of an anti-European restoration?

Is fascism powerful enough today to take on such a task?

Fascism arose from below, from confused needs and brutal forces unleashed by the European war. Fascism has thrived on compromises, on rhetoric, on the petty ambitions of petty people. The state organization that it has created is often uncertain, awkward, inexpert, violent, cramped, riddled by ambiguities.

Nevertheless, if we look around us today and note the demise of the only two states - Russia and Germany - that had preserved remnants of hierarchhical values (however distorted and materialized) we must draw the conclusion that fascism is the West's best hope.

For better or worse, fascism has developed a body. But this body is still lacking a soul. It is still lacking the superior power (atto) needed to justify it, complete it, make it rise to its feet as a principle opposed to all of Europe. The soul in question can achieve these ends only if fascism manages to resurrect a distinctive system of meta-economics and metapolitical values by means of a radical, profound, absolute upheaval (rivolgimento), a new leap ahead and away from the politics of "normalisation" and bourgeois compromise (imborghesimento) that is beginning to pervade contemporary fascism.

But let's not misunderstand one another.

The breeding ground of fascism were youthful, resolute forces, ready for anything, immune to the evils of "culture". To this day they represent the vital nucleus of fascism, while those who worry about developing a "philosophy of fascism" and a "fascist culture" are themselves symptoms of degeneration, or, at the very least, of a turn away from the path leading to something really new; a true revolution (not one regarding which one can conclude "plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose).

No. Fascism must remain antiphilosophical. Decisevely and crudely so. Tapping into its purest core of force, it must sweep away the filthy film of rhetoric, sentimentalism, moralism, and hypocritical piety with which the West has clouded and humanized everything. There is an irrefutable need for someone to break into the temple - perhaps even a barbarian - to drive out the corrupters of "civilized" Europe, the monopolistic preachers of the "spirit", good and evil, and the divine who actually know only matter and what human words, fear, and superstition have layered over matter.

To all this I reply "That's enough!". My negations is meant to allow a few men to rediscover the long paths, the long danger, the long gaze, and the long silence, to unleash the wind of the open sea - the wind of the MEDITERRANEAN TRADITION - so that it may revive the enslaved men of the West.

Antiphilosophy, antisentiment, antireligion: these are the premises. No more aestheticisms and idealisms: not a single one! No more thirsting of the soul for a hallucinated God to pray to and adore. No more acceptance of the common ties and mutual interdependencies that bind beggars together on a foundation of lack.

To soar beyond and above with pure faces. Forces that will have to meet a challenge that transcends politics and social concerns, that recoils at the clamorous gesture and superficial resonance, a challenge so great that the material forces vibrating out in the world of people and things can no longer have any effect.

In silence, under conditions of strict discipline, inflexible self-control, seriousness, and simplicity, with the brisk and tenacious effort of individuals, we in Italy must create an elite in whom Wisdom comes to life again. By "wisdom" I mean the power (virtus) that does not allow itself to speak, that rises up out of a hermetic and Pythagorean silence, that comes into being by subduing the senses and the soul, and that manifests itself not by means of arguments and books but through powerful actions.

We must reawaken to a renewed, spiritualized, bitter feeling (sensazione) for the world, not as a philosophical concept but as something that vibrates in the rhythm of our very blood: a feeling for the world as power, as the agile and free rhythmic dance of Shiva, as a sacrificial act (Veda). This feeling will breed strong, hard, active, solar, Mediterranean beings; beings made up of force and eventually only of force; beings infused with a sense of freedom and nobility whose cosmic perspective (respiro cosmico) has been much stammered about but little understood by Europe's "dead". Science today is profane, democratic, and materialistic. Always relative and qualified in its truths, a slave to phenomena and to incomprehensible laws, it remains mute with regard to the profound reality of man. To debunk it we must reawaken in the new elite a sacred science, a science that is inferior and secret and gives rise to initiations, a science of self-fulfillment and self- dignification that taps the occult forces that govern our being and subdues them so as to permit men to be actually (not mythically) reborn as beings superior to the laws of the body and of space and time.

So a race of leaders it will be. Invisible leaders who do not rattle on or parade about but who act irresistibly and are capable of anything. A center will thus exist in decentered Europe.

The problem of hierarchy can only be addressed by creating leaders, a strictly individual and internal problem, resistant to external solutions. Hierarchy can come into being only when there are leaders and not vice versa.

The empire cannot be built on economic, military, industrial, and even "ideal" foundations. The imperium, according to the Iranian and Roman conception, is transcendent. It can only be attained by those who have the power to transcend the petty lives of petty men and their petty appetites, patriostisms, "values", "nonvalues", and gods.

The ancients understood this when they deified their emperors, joining together royal dignity and spiritual dignity. Have the young barbarians who have dared to resurrect the eagle and the fasces learned this lesson? Have they understood that there is no alternative, that this is the only way to transform their "revolution" into the first light that pierces the thick fog of European decadence? Rather than amounting to little more than the small contigency of a small nation, they could plant the seed for a resurgence of Rome throughout the world, the seed for a true restoration.
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