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  #21  
Old 05-24-2009, 12:24 PM
BlueAngel BlueAngel is offline
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Default Re: IT'S CALLED TORTURE and NOT INTERROGATION TECHNIQUES!


The link you provided cannot be found.

In any event, thank you for adding to this thread.

I am in disagreement with the author.

Waterboarding is not the same as drowning.

Drowning is to cease to exist.

Waterboarding makes one feel as if they are drowning and MAY cease to exist.

There is a difference.

Hence, the word TORTURE and hence, the word, simulation.

The word SIMULATION does not justify the act.


Last edited by BlueAngel : 04-04-2015 at 04:04 PM.
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  #22  
Old 05-24-2009, 01:35 PM
BlueAngel BlueAngel is offline
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Default Re: IT'S CALLED TORTURE and NOT INTERROGATION TECHNIQUES!

The CIA does not imprison people for years and subject them to only one form of torture (i.e., water boarding).

So, how 'bout it?

What other forms of torture fall under the category of "Enhanced Interrogation Techniques," otherwise known as torture?

Why were the GITMO POW's incarcerated in one of the finest prisons in the world, according to Gates?

How did this benefit America?

It didn't.

It stained America.

It made those who hate us hate us even more.

Were the GITMO prisoners brought there for an island vacation?

Relaxing under the sun; being wined and dined and occasionally asked questions about what they knew regarding Al-Qaeda.

Many of them being interrogated without the use of torture and, willfully imparting information like a dripping faucet that took 7-1/2 years.

The CIA certainly knew exactly who they were looking for when they threw out their net, didn't they?

Could it be that some of these prisoners had information about whom America's real enemy is and they tortured it out of them?

Sounds plausible to me.

But, hey.

What would I know about the CIA and torture?

As of late, we're being told that the Bush/Cheney regime based their decision to go to war in Iraq on information obtained from some prisoners at GITMO after subjecting them to "torture" because they linked Saddam to Al-Qaeda.

Great.

This is now being touted as one of the "benefits" derived from torturing some of the inmates.

This is our protocol for establishing a justification to invade another country?

We round up foreigners, torture them to the point where they'll say whatever they want them to say and use that information to make a case for war.

WTF?

Iraq invasion happened before GITMO,

So why all this talk about how 911 happened; GITMO happened and then the invasion of IRAQ happened.

Last edited by BlueAngel : 04-01-2015 at 08:57 PM.
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  #23  
Old 05-24-2009, 11:21 PM
BlueAngel BlueAngel is offline
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Default Re: IT'S CALLED TORTURE and NOT INTERROGATION TECHNIQUES!

Excerpt:

"Speaking on CNN's "State of the Union with John King" Sunday, Mr. Ridge, a Republican, urged Mr. Obama to release in full any memos that shed light on whether harsh interrogations of suspected terrorists prevented additional attacks on the U.S. after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. Mr. Obama has rejected such tactics, which some critics have described as torture, as being ineffectual, while Mr. Cheney has said they helped make the country safer."

---------------------------------------------------------------------

That's all well and good, Mr Ridge, but, why on earth would you think that President Obama is in possession of memos from the CIA that shed light on whether harsh interrogations of suspected terrorists at GITMO prevented additional attacks on the U.S. after September 11, 2001?

Obviously, you think that these "so-called" memorandums were turned over to Obama shortly after he occupied the White House or shall we assume that they are being typed up as I'm speaking?

It can never be proven in a memorandum produced by the CIA or otherwise that "harsh" interrogations of suspected terrorists at GITMO prevented additional attacks on the U.S. after September 11, 2001.

It's after the fact.

Besides, we don't trust the CIA.

They're synonymous with the words Clandestine and Covert.
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  #24  
Old 05-24-2009, 11:26 PM
BlueAngel BlueAngel is offline
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Default Re: IT'S CALLED TORTURE and NOT INTERROGATION TECHNIQUES!

YouTube - Mancow Waterboard
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  #25  
Old 05-24-2009, 11:30 PM
BlueAngel BlueAngel is offline
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Default Re: IT'S CALLED TORTURE and NOT INTERROGATION TECHNIQUES!

Daily Kos: State of the Nation

Mancow Waterboarding V. Real Waterboarding

by Something the Dog Said

Mancow Waterboarding V. Real Waterboarding

Sat May 23, 2009 at 11:43:43 AM PDT

Yesterday a good thing happened, one of the Conservative talk radio torture apologists had himself waterboarded and after six seconds of it he was ready to call it what it is, torture, pure and simple. The Dog thinks this is a good first step, but we are not at the level where people realize how bad it is. What the Mancow had done to him was superficially like the waterboarding torture that we inflicted on Abu Zabaydah and Khalid Sheik Mohamed but it was in no way the full blown thing.

Something the Dog Said's diary :: ::

In an effort to show what it is like for those men, the Dog has written the following first person perspective of being waterboarded. Just a friendly warning, for those who may have endured torture, this could be triggering, so read with caution.

Your feet are shackled, and so are your wrists. When you were lead into the room you saw that it did not have the usual table, this room had a board, and a drain in the floor. You are blindfolded by the guards and roughly forced to lie on the wet wooden board. Even though you are shackled they tie you down to the board with three ropes, one across your chest, on across your waist and one across your legs. You are now completely unable to move, your head is below the level of your feet making the blood rush to your head.

You can hear them moving around and hear a hose running, filling a bucket of water. Your heart begins to race as your mouth is forced open and a wet rag is stuffed inside. There is enough clothe that it fills your mouth, and prevents your teeth from meeting, even at the back of your mouth. You feel a person sitting next you on the board, and they put their hands on your stomach, just above your diaphragm and push down, keeping you from taking a deep breath through your nose. You sense someone else standing above your head, and then the water starts to pour over your face. Not a little, but a torrent of water, it is running up your nose, and you can not breath! Your gag reflex kicks in, but the rag in your mouth does not let you gag.

Your body begins to convulse, convinced in the most primitive of reflexes to try to do anything to get more air! You thrash but the ropes and shackles have you completely immobilized. You feel the water hitting your face, as the person on the bench presses down on your diaphragm, forcing what little air you have out, not in. You are now sure that you are going to die, that you are going to drown, not an abstract, but for real, and right now. Your chest buns with the need for more air, your eyes tear under the blindfold as you struggle to get one more breath.

You are no longer a rational human, you are now just a survival machine, ready to beg anyone, do anything to make the pain stop and get just one more breath. The water stops falling on you. You suck air in through your nose and try to suck it in through you mouth. Both bring more water along with the small amount of air you can get. You hear the hose running again and know that this is not over, it is just starting. Your heart is going like a trip hammer, and you are in a state of terror, like nothing you have ever experienced or thought of. You know if and when they ask you something, you will do or say anything, anything to prevent them from doing it again. Then the hands push on your stomach, and the water starts falling again.

You struggle, trying to hold your breath, but the gag reflex kicks in again, and again you become more animal than man as you struggle for breath your body wracked with pain and convulsively struggling to get free to breath.

As you can see what Mancow did and what is being shown all over the TV is a very sanitized version of the real act of torture. He was not tied down to the board, he could make it stop at any time, he knew he would not die, he knew there were EMT’s standing by to assist him. The men we tortured with waterboarding had none of this. Worse they had been subjected to other torturous interrogation techniques prior to this heinous act.

There is no excuse for this, there can be no extenuating circumstances for these acts of torture. We received no intelligence that saved lives from the 186 times we tortured Khalid Sheik Mohamed or the 83 times we tortured Abu Zabaydah. Even if we had there can be no acceptance of this kind of completely inhuman acts. Former Vice President Cheney is a War Criminal. Everyone who participated and ordered theses acts must be investigated and tried for their State Sponsored Torture program.

We made a good step forward yesterday, but we are far from done. Do not let those you would talk to minimize this act of torture, if you must, show them the description above so they understand how horrible this really is. It is, perhaps, the only way we will get the accountability these crimes require.

The floor is yours.
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  #26  
Old 05-24-2009, 11:39 PM
BlueAngel BlueAngel is offline
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Default Re: IT'S CALLED TORTURE and NOT INTERROGATION TECHNIQUES!

I suggest that the EMT's who stood by the victims of these torture crimes at GITMO step forward.
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  #27  
Old 05-25-2009, 12:17 AM
BlueAngel BlueAngel is offline
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Default Re: IT'S CALLED TORTURE and NOT INTERROGATION TECHNIQUES!

Ah, Liz Cheney, don't talk to the American people about programs that the CIA designs as if they're legitimate.

Such as the torture of inmates at GITMO and don't refer to them as programs.

Mind control programs, either.


Last edited by BlueAngel : 04-04-2015 at 04:17 PM.
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  #28  
Old 05-25-2009, 08:42 AM
iHIMself™ iHIMself™ is offline
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Default Re: IT'S CALLED TORTURE and NOT INTERROGATION TECHNIQUES!

HTML Code:
 The link you provided cannot be found.

Waterboarding is not the same as drowning.

Drowning is to cease to exist.

Waterboarding makes one feel as if they are drowning and MAY cease to exist.

There is a difference.

Hence, the word TORTURE and hence, the word, simulation.

The word SIMULATION does not justify the act.
As if the page just dissappeares overnight???? crazy. Anyway, google it!

If you're shoving someones head under water and keeping them from breathing, is that drowning them or only simulating it?

There is no difference.

drowning definition | Dictionary.com
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  #29  
Old 05-25-2009, 11:39 AM
BlueAngel BlueAngel is offline
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Default Re: IT'S CALLED TORTURE and NOT INTERROGATION TECHNIQUES!

Quote:
Originally Posted by iHIMself™ View Post
HTML Code:
 The link you provided cannot be found.

Waterboarding is not the same as drowning.

Drowning is to cease to exist.

Waterboarding makes one feel as if they are drowning and MAY cease to exist.

There is a difference.

Hence, the word TORTURE and hence, the word, simulation.

The word SIMULATION does not justify the act.
As if the page just dissappeares overnight???? crazy. Anyway, google it!

If you're shoving someones head under water and keeping them from breathing, is that drowning them or only simulating it?

There is no difference.

drowning definition | Dictionary.com
I do not condone torture in any shape or form.

However, to drown is to die.

SO, unless inmates at GITMO who were water boarded died due to this torture, it, therefore, cannot be "classified" as drowning, but rather as TORTURE which simulates drowning.

Frightening, to say the least, but this is the purpose of torture.

To frighten one into saying whatever it is they want them to say or they will make the victim suffer the effects of near death trauma over and over and over again.

Last edited by BlueAngel : 05-25-2009 at 11:49 AM.
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  #30  
Old 05-25-2009, 09:19 PM
BlueAngel BlueAngel is offline
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Default Re: IT'S CALLED TORTURE and NOT INTERROGATION TECHNIQUES!

Props to you, Ventura, but don't blame the DEMOCRATS for the torture that the CIA inflicted upon inmates at GITMO!

Otherwise, you sound as if you want to hold the CIA and CHENEY harmless and blame the torture of GITMO inmates on the DEMOCRATS just as the CIA desires to do.

In particular, Pelosi.

The CIA and Dick Cheney along with many others not including Pelosi or Graham are responsible for the torture of GITMO inmates.

Period!

According to Pelosi and Bob Graham, water boarding was not mentioned in the meetings and, even if both, Pelosi and Graham were advised as to WHAT "enhanced interrogation techniques" were going to be used, including water boarding, on GITMO inmates and, both, Pelosi and Graham advised the CIA against this practice, do you seriously believe that the CIA would have walked away with their tail between their legs and followed Graham and Pelosi's orders?

What other Intelligence Committee members were present at the briefings wherein the CIA was supposedly seeking the approval of members of this committee to TORTURE inmates at GITMO?

Like I said, these meeting are "briefings" and not for the purpose of seeking approval, but for the purpose of securing a scape goat.

The CIA does what the CIA wants to do regardless of approval or not.

Ventura: I’ll waterboard Hannity into saying Obama best president ever

Mike Sheehan
Raw Story
Saturday, May 23, 2009

After ripping George W. Bush and expressing his desire to waterboard Dick Cheney, former governor Jesse Ventura continues his media storm, this time in a sitdown with Huffington Post.

The ex-pro wrestler minced no words, as usual.

Americans have changed “in that we have a paranoia that there’s a crazy Arab around every tree,” Ventura told Marcus Baram. “We’re walking on eggshells now, when in reality you have as much chance of running into a terrorist as winning the Powerball.”

Related: Texas gov. will use stimulus funds to pay to repair mansion

He ripped into conservative talkers, such as Bill O’Reilly: “I always want to go on [his show], I’ve got something, I’m going to blast him for something. I don’t want to reveal what it is so he can’t prepare. But he doesn’t have the courage to have me on.”

Ventura: I’ll waterboard Hannity into saying Obama best president ever 335x205 graph128c aj

On Sean Hannity, whose show Ventura guested on this week: “He’s scared to death of me. It was over in a few minutes and that was it.”

The former Navy SEAL said he’d relish an opportunity to waterboard Hannity, a procedure he endured himself during military training: “I’ll bet him a thousand bucks that I can get him to say ‘Barack Obama is the greatest president’ — if I get him to say it, he’ll give the thousand to charity and if I can’t, I’ll give the money to charity.”

Ventura didn’t spare Democrats either, on torture: “They condoned it. Nobody stepped forward and said this is torture. Democrats are so spineless, so afraid to go against the tide.”

The always quotable Ventura has made memorable appearances on Fox News and The View in recent days, blasting the use of torture and questioning the official story of 9/11, which caused co-host Brian Kilmeade to walk off the set of Fox & Friends.

Last edited by BlueAngel : 04-01-2015 at 09:01 PM.
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