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  #11  
Old 10-30-2005, 01:36 AM
truebeliever truebeliever is offline
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Default Re: Holocaust or Holohoax ?


psholtz:

I dont doubt what you write.

But answer the question.

The "Holocaust" as repeated adinfunatim is pure unadultarated bollocks.

I am not interested in this point of time as to "other" atrocities real or alledged. I am interested in the "historical facts" as put over by the mainstream that 1 million, 2 million 6 million or indeed 547436363565 million were murdered in systematic and ruthless fashion in the concentration camps run by Nazi Germany...via homicidal gas chamber.

You are smart...

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  #12  
Old 10-30-2005, 07:47 AM
rushdoony rushdoony is offline
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Default Re: Holocaust or Holohoax ?

Conclusions

After 30 years of research, revisionist authors have reached the following conclusions:

The Hitler "gas chambers" never existed.
The "genocide" (or "attempted genocide") of the Jews never took place. In other words: Hitler never gave an order nor permission that anyone should be killed because of his race or religion.
The alleged "gas chambers" and the alleged "genocide" are one and the same lie.
This lie, which is largely of Zionist origin, has made an enormous political and financial fraud possible, whose principal beneficiary is the state of Israel.
The principal victims of this fraud are the German people (but not the German rulers) and the entire Palestinian people.
The enormous power of the official information services has, thus far, had the effect of ensuring the success of the lie and of censoring the freedom of expression of those who have denounced the lie.
The participants in this lie know that its days are numbered. They distort the purpose and nature of the Revisionist research. They label as "resurgence of Nazism" or as "falsification of history" what is only a thoughtful and justified concern for historical truth. Complete paper:
http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/gaschambers.shtml
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  #13  
Old 10-30-2005, 08:03 AM
rushdoony rushdoony is offline
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Default Re: Holocaust or Holohoax ?

Finkelstein's book is especially valuable because it is so well documented. He cites dozens of other books and gives specific references to a number of especially revealing statements by other Jews. He also spares no scorn in talking about charlatans such as Wiesel and Goldhagen. He shows up Wiesel as a pious fraud whose standard speaker's fee for lying about what happened during the Second World War is $25,000. Wiesel's popularity is based on his ability to look solemn and spout utter nonsense without cracking a smile. He doesn't talk about reality but about the sacred, ineffable mystery which is the Holocaust, a mystery beyond all understanding or explanation, which must never be examined or questioned. And his Gentile audiences just eat it up. I must admit that I thought a Jew couldn't be embarrassed by this sort of fraud, but apparently Finkelstein really is embarrassed by Wiesel.

Finkelstein's explanation as to why the Holocaust was invented is essentially the same as mine: the Holocaust gives the Jews immunity from criticism for whatever they do to non-Jews, no matter how atrocious, and it gives them a rationale for demanding a handout from the rest of the world. Finkelstein does a very creditable job of establishing this explanation by detailing the way in which the Jews have squeezed the Swiss and others for billions of dollars in Holocaust reparations. He writes:


In recent years the Holocaust industry has become an outright extortion racket.
Complete peper:
http://www.natall.com/free-speech/fs009c.html
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  #14  
Old 10-30-2005, 06:34 PM
truebeliever truebeliever is offline
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Default Re: Holocaust or Holohoax ?

PSHOLTZ:

You may simply be offline but I hope you will be replying to the specific question. Can you really beleieve the "Holocaust" as espoused by the mainstream EVER happened? And I dont just mean numbers, i mean the homicidal gas chambers and the specific plan to solve, "the Jewish Problem".

I dont doubt that Nazi war crimes happened although thats up for debate too, seeing as the Allies and others have lied and fabricated evidence non stop since the end of the war.
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  #15  
Old 10-30-2005, 09:02 PM
psholtz psholtz is offline
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Default Re: Holocaust or Holohoax ?

Quote:
truebeliever wrote:
PSHOLTZ:

You may simply be offline but I hope you will be replying to the specific question. Can you really beleieve the "Holocaust" as espoused by the mainstream EVER happened? And I dont just mean numbers, i mean the homicidal gas chambers and the specific plan to solve, "the Jewish Problem".

I dont doubt that Nazi war crimes happened although thats up for debate too, seeing as the Allies and others have lied and fabricated evidence non stop since the end of the war.
Hi TrueBeliever,

Well, I can tell you based on what I regard as reliable, first-hand testimony that most (not all, not most) of the Jews living in Prague's Jewish Quarter were rounded up by the Nazis and deported off in boxcars (not all at once, of course, but systematically, over time), and that most of these Jews *never* returned to Prague after the War. Draw from that what conclusions you may.

You also have to take into account incidents like Kristallnacht, all the anti-Jewish laws the Nazis passed soon after taking power, etc. I'm not certain if the Nazis ever *formally* designated it as a "Jewish Problem", but there clearly as a systematic pattern of oppressing Jews and making life as difficult as possible for them. Whether this was broken down along specific "ethnic" or "social" lines w/in the Jewish community, I have no knowledge whatsoever ... (i.e., if the Rothschilds are running the whole show, and they're murdering and oppressing their poorer cousins, etc).

That said, like I said before, there's ample reason to think that the 6 million figure is inflated. In the first place, WWII had a very "corporate" feel to it, being run (for the most part, imho) by corporate powers from America and the UK (i.e., GM and IBM were using slave labor in the Nazi concentration camps to build their products). It stands to reason that most of these concentration camps were just that: slave labor camps.. and slavery being abhorrent as it is, in general, you don't want to recklessly murder all your slaves, b/c then who's going to do all the work?

Someone once said that trying to figure out what's happening in the world by watching the news is like trying to tell the time by looking just at the second hand: you'll never have the correct context to figure it out. Much of this "slave labor" technology (if you can call it that) has been put to good use by US corporations since the end of WWII. Certainly GM runs slave labor camps (i.e., concentration camps) down there on the Mexican border (on the Mexican side), where they build their "cars" (<- if that's the right word for those hunks of crap) and then bring them into the US w/o tariffs, compliments of NAFTA.

But I think it's important not to lose sight of *reason* either. For a couple reasons:

* If the Enemy is able to convince you that Nazi concentration camps, or Nazi extermination programs, never existed, then you won't believe it when you start to hear about concentration camps here in the U.S.. and I think it stands to reason that there *are* concentration camps, ready and waiting, here in the U.S. Bear in mind that the sitting President is the grandson of one of the chief architects of the Nazi Regime (Prescott Bush). The second hand keeps ticking.. What they learned about concentration camps, slave labor, and extermination programs during the Nazi Era is now being applied here in the U.S.. but if you don't believe it happened in Nazi Germany, you'll just be letting history repeat itself all over again in the U.S..

* I think it stands to reason that *most* of the Nazi concentration camps were used for slave labor (again, given the "corporate" nature of WWII). However, I can't imagine a fascist dictator who isn't going to keep at least one or two extermination death camps on his shopping list, just for killing off political opponents if nothing else. Certainly, if such camps are ever built/used in the U.S., I anticipate most of them being used for extermination, not slave labor. The Ruling Elite in the U.S. has already effectively enslaved much of the rest of planet Earth.. Their slave labor is safely ensnared outside U.S. borders (Mexico + Latin America alone supplies more than ample slave labor for U.S. needs). But the Americans themselves are a different problem: they have a penchant for liberty and they love their guns. There's only one solution for this in the mind of a fascist dictator: mass extermination programs.

Soo all in all, yes I believe the 6 million number is inflated.. In reality, it's probably no higher than 3 million, or perhaps even much lower than that.. who knows? It's an interesting area of history. Someday I'll look into it more closely and be able to give you a more definitive answer.

At the same time, I think it's unwise to let the Enemy convince you that it *never* happened.. To do so, you'd be playing right into his hands (imho)..
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  #16  
Old 10-30-2005, 09:33 PM
igwt igwt is offline
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Default Re: Holocaust or Holohoax ?

Have to agree with PSholtz if doubt can be cast on any of the past attrocities, then people will be in doubt regarding future events...



http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/camps.html
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  #17  
Old 10-30-2005, 09:54 PM
truebeliever truebeliever is offline
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Default Re: Holocaust or Holohoax ?

You did'nt answer my specific question.

I know my WW2 history pretty well. The slave labour camps existed. No one doubts that. I dont doubt brutality went on their. Especially post 1943 as tens of thousands of innocent German women and children were incinerated on a regular basis from Allied bombing. Tends to make you a little heartless having your family and friends incinerated.

My question was specifically the "Holocaust" which is a s-p-e-c-i-f-i-c claim made by a specific group of people. That Adolph Hitler and the Nazi apparatus undertook the extermination of European Jewry via "homicidal gas chambers" using a common pesticide of the day "zyclon b'.

This basic view of events has been elevated to the status of "undeniable fact".

Their is a concept in law that "truth" is the ultimate defence. Once a witness has been discredited, that witness can no longer be relied on.

The EXACT details of WW2 are up for grabs. I look forward to a vigerous debate where Hitler and ALL the murdering bastards of WW2 can find their final place in history.

Now, back to the specifics of the "holocaust"...in your humble opinion, did the Nazi's murder via homicidal gas chambers using Zyclon B?

I am not trying to "win", but i am trying to prove a point. To say that with the discrediting of the war time propaganda of the gas chambers that Hilter be elevated to Saint hood is not the automatic assumption. But he may well lose the mantle of Devil incarnate.

Again, as a man who questions the mainstream, can you still believe the fairytale of Hitler and the homicidal gas chambers?
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  #18  
Old 10-30-2005, 09:59 PM
truebeliever truebeliever is offline
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Default Re: Holocaust or Holohoax ?

Quote:
Have to agree with PSholtz if doubt can be cast on any of the past attrocities, then people will be in doubt regarding future events...
Come on! I am talking about the specific claim of homicidal gas chambers.

This is important. The "gas chamber" is meant to represent the cold, clinical, efficient, State sponsored murder of human beings. It is the holy, of holies. It is also a lie.

Let justice be done though the heavens fall.

The truth is not up for auction to "prevent" future events. It is simply the truth.

Back to the homicidal gas chambers...
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  #19  
Old 10-30-2005, 11:13 PM
psholtz psholtz is offline
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Default Re: Holocaust or Holohoax ?

I'm quite *certain* that there were death camps (i.e., Vernichtungslager) that were used exclusively for extermination purposes.. although I'm basing this more on the logic of Rule by Terror and fascist politics. Obviously I was not there to corroborate first hand and I doubt there were more than a handful of such camps (relatively speaking).

How such Vernichtung was carried out, I have no knowledge. Whether it was by gas or by cremation or by firing squad, etc, I don't know.. but I'm quite certain that at least several such camps existed. Whether or not they were specifically for Jews, or just for political prisoners, etc, is also something I wouldn't be qualified to say..
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  #20  
Old 10-31-2005, 01:38 AM
truebeliever truebeliever is offline
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Default Re: Holocaust or Holohoax ?

Again, i'm not trying to be a smart arse but you still hav'nt answered my question.

Quote:
I'm quite *certain* that there were death camps (i.e., Vernichtungslager) that were used exclusively for extermination purposes.. although I'm basing this more on the logic of Rule by Terror and fascist politics.
Come on. That is not good enough. We base things on evidence. Their must be evidence. If their is limited "concrete" evidence then the witness statements must be clear and concise and above all CONSISTENT. Which they are FAR from.

I am talking specifically on the "Holocaust" of the Jewish people. Specifically using homicidal gas chambers. I have no doubt ALL the camps had facilities for people the Regime wanted to get rid of but the claims are quite specific...that Adolph Hitler, who had no fear putting things down on paper, ordered "informally", the extermination of European Jewry using homicidal gas chambers. Gas chambers that would have had to run day and night along with the crematoria. These are specific allegations on a specific issue. That other "atrocities" occured in the East i have no doubt...i am specifically talking about the claims that are a "holy grail", that an ENTIRE people were marked for extermination using homicidal gas chambers. Can you address this directly? A yes or no will suffice and if you could based on what.

I appreciate your time on the matter.
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