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  #1  
Old 05-10-2005, 08:41 AM
nakedsnake nakedsnake is offline
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Default Snake to Draken, come in Draken...


I see the Masonic symbols on your posts, what is your rank or affiliation in the movement???

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  #2  
Old 05-10-2005, 10:55 AM
Draken Draken is offline
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Default Re: Snake to Draken, come in Draken...

Hey snake!

Why do you ask?

Have you already made up your mind?

Have you read my posts?

What "Masonic" symbols are you referring to?
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Three things are sacred to me: first Truth, and then, in its tracks, primordial prayer; Then virtue–nobility of soul which, in God walks on the path of beauty. Frithjof Schuon
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  #3  
Old 05-10-2005, 03:00 PM
nakedsnake nakedsnake is offline
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Default Re: Snake to Draken, come in Draken...

Im asking because, im curious as to the symbols the flag with the eagle, the crown under your name, I glanced over some of your posts as they were attached to topics I was reading.
I don't understand the comment as to have I made up my mind? about what? What am I suppossed to make up my mind about?
the question was straight forward are you a Mason?
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  #4  
Old 05-10-2005, 04:19 PM
Draken Draken is offline
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Default Re: Snake to Draken, come in Draken...

No, I'm not a Mason.

I've never been offered to become a Mason.

At one stage I was fascinated with Freemasonry and started researching it - now it's something like 10 years ago - and the more I found out the more I was glad I wasn't fascinated enough to join.

The crown is the <a href="http://home.hu.inter.net/~jekely/crown.htm">Holy Crown of Hungary</a>.

The "eagle" is actually a <a href="http://www.hunmagyar.org/hungary/myth/turul.html">turul bird</a>, a mythical bird of prey, which is an important symbol of the Magyars.

These symbols have nothing to do with Masonry. They are much older.

Lately, people have insinuated that I could/might have Masonic/Illuminati sympathies, by people who should know me better than that, and your questions sounded like you insinuated things in the same direction, therefore my suspicion. I apologize if my initial assumption was wrong. I guess I'm just tired of being the subject of suspicion.
I know my reasons for writing what I write are genuine.

I read and try to understand a lot of esoteric, religious texts and study mythology a lot. You could say I'm a Traditionalist, as opposed to a Modernist.

I can't say I agree a 100% with the Christian doctrine, but I agree with most of it. I also highly respect other traditions based on a genuine knowledge of God, so I don't exclude Vedic, Muslim, ancient Chinese, Native American or Norse traditions and beliefs.

There's me in a nutshell - what about you?
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Three things are sacred to me: first Truth, and then, in its tracks, primordial prayer; Then virtue–nobility of soul which, in God walks on the path of beauty. Frithjof Schuon
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  #5  
Old 05-10-2005, 05:02 PM
nakedsnake nakedsnake is offline
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Default Re: Snake to Draken, come in Draken...

Quote:
Draken wrote:

I can't say I agree a 100% with the Christian doctrine, but I agree with most of it. I also highly respect other traditions based on a genuine knowledge of God

There's me in a nutshell - what about you?
I was asking because of the symbols, and mainly because I was curious as to your esoteric posts.
I was an atheist, and am now a Christian.
The thing about Christianity is that it is a historical movement based on a historical person, powered by a supernatural historical event; namely the resurrection.
so to be intellectually honest with the Christian movement you can't be selective, you either accept it or reject it.
Being highly respectful of other traditions, while admirable might not lead you to truth.
You state other traditions based on an genuine knowledge of God, how do we determine what is genuine and what is false?
sincerety of belief does not make it genuine knowledge of the divine.
we cannot know the transcendent unless he takes the first step and reveals himself to us, this is the claim of Christianity that he revealed himself to us in his son and in no other way, this absolute exclusive claim to the divine is offensive to many people, they say it is intolerrant.
But it is confirmed by his resurrection from the dead, a historical event.
Truth is by nature exclusive.
I would advise any lover of truth and any sincere seeker of the divine, to look at the life, claims, death and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth. Because if he rose from the dead, he speaks the words of God for God, and if he claimed exclusivity to that, then all else by definition is false.
And truth about God is the ultimate truth.
I hope a seeker such as yourself friend takes the invitation.

With all due respects.. Snake
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  #6  
Old 05-10-2005, 05:14 PM
nakedsnake nakedsnake is offline
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Default Re: Snake to Draken, come in Draken...

Draken..
For more about me see this post...

http://www.clubconspiracy.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=1287&forum=16&PHPSESSID=30e d91a61749fea0b78b98c83d10c006
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  #7  
Old 05-11-2005, 04:04 AM
Ahmad Ahmad is offline
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Default Re: Snake to Draken, come in Draken...

Quote:
we cannot know the transcendent unless he takes the first step and reveals himself to us, this is the claim of Christianity that he revealed himself to us in his son and in no other way, this absolute exclusive claim to the divine is offensive to many people, they say it is intolerrant.
Peace be upon you,

As Martin Luher King said, it was nothing but extreme love (idol-worship) of Jesus that lead some of his followers to invent the "Sonship" and the "resurrection".

Martin L.King:
"The last doctrine in our discussion deals with the resurrection story. This doctrine, upon which the Easter Faith rests, symbolizes the ultimate Christian conviction: that Christ conquered death. From a literary, historical, and philosophical point of view this doctrine raises many questions. In fact the external evidence for the authenticity of this doctrine is found wanting. But here again the external evidence is not the most important thing, for it in itself fails to tell us precisely the thing we most want to know: What experiences of early Christians lead to the formulation of the doctrine?

The root of our inquiry is found in the fact that the early Christians had lived with Jesus. They had been captivated by the magnetic power of his personality. This basic experience led to the faith that he could never die. And so in the pre-scientific thought pattern of the first century, this inner faith took outward form. But it must be remembered that before the doctrine was formulated or the event recorded, the early Christians had had a lasting experience with the Christ. They had come to see that the essential note in the Fourth Gospel is the ultimate force in Christianity: The living, deathless person of Christ. They expressed this in terms of the outward, but it was an inner experience that lead to its expression."
--------------------------------------------

As for the sonship also it's not a historical event, it was just an idea borrowed from the Greek and Roman myths that changed the monothiestic religion from one god alone to God+a son.

A prominent Theologian, John Hick exposed that fact:

"
"It’s also well known today - another theme of that book - that the term ‘son of God’ was widely used in the ancient world. Jesus was by no means the only person to whom the term was applied

In particular, within Jesus’ own religion, Judaism, Adam was called the son of God, and is so called in Luke’s Gospel where Jesus’ ancestry is traced back to ‘the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God’ (tou Seth tou Adam tou Theou’, 3:38), angels were called sons of God, Israel as a whole was called God’s son, and indeed any outstandingly pious Jew could be called a son of God. And the ancient Hebrew kings were enthroned as son of God - hence the words of Psalm 2:7, ‘Thou art my son, this day I have begotten thee’. But no one within Judaism thought that God literally begot sons.

The phrase ‘son of God’ was clearly metaphorical. ‘son of'’ meant ‘true servant of’ or sometimes ‘given a special divine mission by’ or more generally ‘in the spirit of’. The term was a very familiar metaphor within Judaism and never implied deity.

But as Christianity expanded beyond its Jewish roots into the Graeco-Roman world the metaphorical son of God was gradually transformed in Christian thinking into the metaphysical God the Son, second person of a divine Trinity.

And it is this epoch-making development that is under question today."
-------------------------------------------
I invite you to read Quran, the final proven testament from God, the book that the "Muslims" (better called Muhamedans) have abandoned en masse in favor of the man-made Hadith books which is the equivelant of the man-made Talmud.

In this PROVEN book you may find the Truth about Jesus.

1- Did Jesus rise from the dead? Quran says No, nor was he really crucified, God raised his soul to Him before the torture began, they crucified an empty body, Jesus is not coming back.

Crucifying "the Body" of Jesus*

[4:157] And for claiming that they killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of GOD. In fact, they never killed him, they never crucified him - they were made to think that they did. All factions who are disputing in this matter are full of doubt concerning this issue. They possess no knowledge; they only conjecture. For certain, they never killed him.*

[4:158] Instead, GOD raised him to Him; GOD is Almighty, Most Wise.

Footnote
*4:157-158 Jesus, the real person, the soul, was raised in the same manner as in the death of any righteous person. Subsequently, his enemies arrested, tortured, and crucified his living, but empty, body. See Appendices 17 & 22 of the "Authorized english translation of Quran by Rashad Khalifa".


[4:159] Everyone among the people of the scripture was required to believe in him before his death. On the Day of Resurrection, he will be a witness against them.

[4:160] Due to their transgressions, we prohibited for the Jews good foods that used to be lawful for them; also for consistently repelling from the path of GOD.

[4:161] And for practicing usury, which was forbidden, and for consuming the people's money illicitly. We have prepared for the disbelievers among them painful retribution.

[4:162] As for those among them who are well founded in knowledge, and the believers, they believe in what was revealed to you, and in what was revealed before you. They are observers of the Contact Prayers (Salat), and givers of the obligatory charity (Zakat); they are believers in GOD and the Last Day. We grant these a great recompense.

For more feel free to read my article on Christianity
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  #8  
Old 05-11-2005, 05:05 AM
Draken Draken is offline
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Default Re: Snake to Draken, come in Draken...

Quote:
nakedsnake wrote:
I was asking because of the symbols, and mainly because I was curious as to your esoteric posts.
I was an atheist, and am now a Christian.
The thing about Christianity is that it is a historical movement based on a historical person, powered by a supernatural historical event; namely the resurrection.
so to be intellectually honest with the Christian movement you can't be selective, you either accept it or reject it.
Being highly respectful of other traditions, while admirable might not lead you to truth.
You state other traditions based on an genuine knowledge of God, how do we determine what is genuine and what is false?
sincerety of belief does not make it genuine knowledge of the divine.
we cannot know the transcendent unless he takes the first step and reveals himself to us, this is the claim of Christianity that he revealed himself to us in his son and in no other way, this absolute exclusive claim to the divine is offensive to many people, they say it is intolerrant.
But it is confirmed by his resurrection from the dead, a historical event.
Truth is by nature exclusive.
I would advise any lover of truth and any sincere seeker of the divine, to look at the life, claims, death and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth. Because if he rose from the dead, he speaks the words of God for God, and if he claimed exclusivity to that, then all else by definition is false.
And truth about God is the ultimate truth.
I hope a seeker such as yourself friend takes the invitation.

With all due respects.. Snake
Valid points there, Ahmad.

Snake, if you ask me to reject other traditional wisdom for the exlcusive benefit of Christianity you're asking in vain.
I don't have to reject other doctrines to be able to appreciate the teaching of Jesus.

I know I don't reject the teaching of Jesus, but I've noticed it's quite difficult to explain to people over the net.
When i read the NT I see other aspects than just the obvious. I don't take every word in the NT literally. You might think that that is rejecting the message or reading things into the text that isn't there, but that's your opinion. There are more than one way to understand the NT and the teachings of Jesus.

I see the teachings of Jesus in other religious/spiritual doctrines, not just in the Christian doctrine.

You ask how we can know what's genuine and what's false.

Certainly not through logical, rational thinking. There's a Sufi saying:

"Searching for God through logical proof is like searching for the sun with a lamp."

I can't answer your question, because I can't through logical arguments and rational thinking explain how I think and what my experiences are and have been.

One thing I forgot to mention in my brief presentation of myself are people who inspired me. A few of these are important to mention, like Frithjof Schuon, Julius Evola, René Guénon et al. These people belong to an informal "school" of thought called "Traditionalists". Their philosophy is what Guénon calls the "primordial tradition". I've posted quite a lot of articles as an attempt to introduce people coming to this forum to these ideas.
If you're interested check out my <a href="http://www.clubconspiracy.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=590&forum=3&PHPSESSID=6e442 3786b933071d13c4d53ae99061a">INTEGRAL TRADITION</a>, <a href="http://www.clubconspiracy.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=677&forum=3&PHPSESSID=6e442 3786b933071d13c4d53ae99061a">SOLIPSISM - KALI-YUGA - RIGHT-WING ATTITUDE</a>, <a href="http://www.clubconspiracy.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=601&forum=2&PHPSESSID=6e442 3786b933071d13c4d53ae99061a">Individual, Spiritual Resistance To Ego & NWO</a>, <a href="http://www.clubconspiracy.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=1259&forum=17&PHPSESSID=6e4 423786b933071d13c4d53ae99061a">The System of Antichrist and September 11 by Charles Upton</a> threads, along with my more political, factual threads <a href="http://www.clubconspiracy.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=1052&forum=2&PHPSESSID=6e44 23786b933071d13c4d53ae99061a">Marxist Cultural Subversion According to Gramsci</a> and my thread on <a href="http://www.clubconspiracy.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=545&forum=17&PHPSESSID=6e44 23786b933071d13c4d53ae99061a">COMMUNISM</a>.

You say truth is by nature exclusive. I don't understand what you mean by that statement. Exclusive? Excluding who?
I would say there's relative truth and there's absolute, Universal Truth. Relative truth could be "exclusive", whatever we decide that is. Absolute, Univeral Truth, on the other hand, is actually the opposite: it's ALL INCLUSIVE. There is only One.

In conclusion, I totally accept the resurrection of Christ. That does not mean all other spiritual teachings are wrong. Neither does it mean your understanding of the resurrection of Christ is identical to mine.

I will shortly be leaving this forum for a while; I need to gather my thoughts on how to go on in my life. I feel I've said what I wanted to say, for now at least.
My plan is to wrap up discussions I'm in the middle of at the moment and to post a "goodbye for now"-post before I leave, and come back in a few months' time.
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Three things are sacred to me: first Truth, and then, in its tracks, primordial prayer; Then virtue–nobility of soul which, in God walks on the path of beauty. Frithjof Schuon
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  #9  
Old 05-11-2005, 06:09 AM
truebeliever truebeliever is offline
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Default Re: Snake to Draken, come in Draken...

Draks symbols are all masculine symbols of superior insight.

The Sun...consciousness.

The Eagle...superior insight from above.

The sword...the ability to cut through and descriminate.

Yes, the Masons would approve ALL of these symbols.

Is Draken a Mason...I think his posts speak for themselves.

He is just a misguided Pagan who must be killed to save him from himself...George Bush Christian style!

:-D 8-) :-P :-)
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  #10  
Old 05-11-2005, 07:37 AM
Draken Draken is offline
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Default Re: Snake to Draken, come in Draken...

Hey, true, maybe I'll die willingly, and THEN what?;-)
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